Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndChildhood
CCW.
a military ID never helped at all when in contact with cops, but I was never in uniform.
if some denver area PD took one of my guns and destroyed it, I would go on the warpath.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndChildhood
CCW.
a military ID never helped at all when in contact with cops, but I was never in uniform.
if some denver area PD took one of my guns and destroyed it, I would go on the warpath.
At that point, it becomes a principle issue, and depending on my financial means at the time, an attorney WOULD be hired, and that agency WOULD be buying me a new LCP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
Its surprising to me however, that they destroyed your LCP, just like that. Working in LE myself, and actually dealing with property stuff a few times during my career, there are strict accountability procedures in place for peoples property. Most agencies have a certain time frame to which they must hold property, and you have the chance to pick it up, provided its not being held as evidence. Something sounds fishy on the part of the agency that you dealt with. I hope some ass doesn't have himself/herself a free LCP.
It is sad that life in the US has come to this, but it is what it is. When you feel wronged and there is no other way of addressing the issue, hiring a lawyer is often the only option. I'm not a lawyer. I don't like most lawyers, the way some people don't like most cops. There are lawyers I trust and there are cops I don't trust. Isn't that true about many of the people we meet?
No one knows the details of Byte's circumstances better than Byte. Given the way he described it, the PD had no right to destroy his lawfully owned, private property. While the cop on the scene has good reason to secure a weapon while he is in contact with the owner (for everyone's safety), the weapon should have been returned as soon as possible.
I work in law enforcement but no longer in uniform. You learn very early, never argue with a cop in uniform on the street. You will lose. If the cop in uniform wrongs you, then you will have to patiently wait until you get your turn, either in court or with internal affairs. Pay back is a muther and it is best served cold.
That said, I agree with an earlier post. That department would have bought me a brand new gun. Then they would have paid my attorney's fees and some pain and suffering for the loss of my beloved possession.
OneGuy: You seem to have difficulty admitting that shitty cops exist in this world. I've seen first hand, shitty versions of every occupation I've ever had, and I have no issue admitting that they exist. We understand that you are an upstanding guy. There are more "bad cop" stories that can even be told here.
Here is a recent post from another board. This is from a pretty stupid member, with a history, so take it with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Was my constitutional right Violated???
So yesterday i was on my way home,this NHP pulls me over with 3 more cops behind him and said his radar said i was speeding (56 in a 35) so even tho i know it wasn't true,i took the ticket without fighting about it. Well as i take the ticket,the cops open my door and pull me out (guns in hand) and tell me i was going to jail because in the state of Nevada,if you have a felony (witch i do but well over 7 years ago in Cali) that i need to register as a EX felon. They start going threw my car trowing all my stuff out on the side of the rode,and tell me there letting me go but i need to follow them to the station to get photos and fingerprints taken. So i go and ask why i had to register like I'm some child rapist,and they said so they can track me. They said i need to let them know where i go,where i work,and if i go out of state,i must tell them where I'm going and when ill be back. Now (IMO) its like there putting my ass back on probation.
I call the state capital and talk to an officer there about this so called LAW. He said that working as an officer for over 30+years,he had never herd about this and the cops had know right to jerk me out of my car like that,and i should call an attorney fast. I have been searching everywhere on the net about this LAW and can't seem to locate it.
What do you think i should do? Fight it or just let it be?
And the felony isn't all that bad,i can get it removed but just can't afford it right now.
I have been living in Nevada a little over a year now and been stopped 2 times and never had a problem.
My fiance once went on a date with a young cop. All night he bragged about going out with his police and fireman buddies and getting tanked and driving around because, "...we're the 'Boys in Blue' and can do whatever we want! Who's going to say anything?"
I've had an average amount of encounters with police, and for the most part they've been a-okay. I've recently noted how the police in my neighborhood show up fast, and in numbers when ever I call them. However, that doesn't allow me to over look and ignore the countless stories of shitty officers. There are literally hours and hours of videos of cops doing terrible things on Youtube that are completely inexcusable, regardless of any surrounding circumstances.
Gnihcraes - I'm surprised to hear that the lady officer that searched your dad's truck put a single thing back, let alone all of it. He is very lucky in that regard.
Byte - A family member was carrying his pistol concealed, while drunk, (not driving, walking on the sidewalk) when he was confronted by the police. He was arrested and they took the gun. I was pissed and was going to call the police and ask how to get the gun back, since it wasn't used in a crime. I was lazy and never did it. After like 18 months, they sent a letter to him telling him that he could come and claim the gun back. Color me surprised.
Maybe I am coming across wrong.
I do not approve of an encounter with a figure imposing unchecked immediate authority over me.
This might be a Local PD, State or federal officer or a DA of any Level.
Go to a courtroom and listen to the way they arbitrarily trade off sentences... YEARS of a Mans life regardless of Innocence or guilt. I have seen more concern by an 8 year old over a pokemon card.
Experience has taught me that regardless of what the facts actually are or your position in the events in Question, that cop can fuck you up and say ANYTHING and its up to you to disprove it.
Ask the guy that responded to his neighbor being shot in Englewood.
He was ON THE PHONE with 911 when the PD Bum-rushed his ass and threw him in Jail breaking his leg/ankle whatever. Sounds like Dispatch and Englewood PD are NOT doing their Jobs. Makes me REALLY want to be a good citizen and become involved... and then PD investigators wonder why nobody comes forward. "When the system learns your name, there is no escape."
When Cops have Hand gestures to EACH OTHER to plant illegal substances on a Citizen because they cannot find any on him...When a cop can beat the fuck out of someone illegally and get a slap on the hand and a paid vacation, There is a huge problem with the entirety of the system.
It's not that I only distrust Law Enforcement, I don't trust anyone with my rights.
when a LEO pulls you over your shit is done... and if you don't surrender your rights your life turns to shit.
Most agencies will literally beg you to come get your crap (kind of a CYA). I've seen property sheets from a couple different agencies, and you would be quite surprised at some of the stuff they log and hang on to, so that you can later come pick it up, we're talking rubber bands and paper airplanes, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Oh yeah, I've also been asked if I had any drugs or guns in my vehicle during a stop for a speeding ticket. Oh wait, I didn't get a ticket. I was pulled over coming out of "The Loop" up in Westminster and I just got a warning. I was going like 6 over.
The best experience I've had while being pulled over was when I was doing like 80 mph on an off ramp trying to get to class on time. Cop pulls me over. He was pissed. He came up to my window and said, "You were doing 80 mph on an off ramp." I said, "I was." As in, I was affirming what he just said. He misinterpreted that as me playing dumb and saying, "I was?" He responded, "Yeah, you were." He went back to his car, came back in like 4 seconds with a ticket. I signed it and we were both on our way. The whole stop took under 4 minutes. He didn't waste either of our time.
I've been stopped before and sat on the side of the road for 30 minutes while the two guys had a tickle fight or something in the car behind me. They purposely wasted my time because I told them I was on my way to the airport to pick someone up (I was).
The letter was sent to the house he lives at with the parents. They told me about it. None of us told him about it, because we don't really think he should have a gun (too immature). Think they'll send another letter?Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
They may. I know depending on the value of the item in question, often times a letter will be sent, followed by a certified letter. It just varies by department, some just send a letter, and wait how ever long their policy requires, and then destroy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I was going to buy it from him, but since I lost my job, and it has been long enough that he probably doesn't feel as dumb anymore, it probably won't happen.
Reasons I record any and all traffic stops and I Do not trust ANYONE...
Just like PD Don't know who they are pulling over, we don't know who is pulling us over.
Should this go in the funny video thread?
And this shit terrifies me the most!
We don't need to turn this into a cop bashing thread, but it would be nice if people would at least accept that there are bad police officers. If that happened, there wouldn't always be so many examples posted up and the threads would stay on track.
Byte, I get worked up thinking about how citizens have zero ability to protect themselves from the police too. I'm going to bed, then I'll be all better in the morning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I Don't sleep well at night.
I am worried that DPS SWAT Will raid the wrong address TSA Will molest my Toddler and then some fat donut whore will accidentally shoot me.
Tell me a Bedtime story? :D
Once upon a time, I went on a ride along with a Denver PD cop buddy. It was a pretty boring day, thank God we didn't do any traffic bullshit. We went to a lady's house who came home and found her front door ajar. She figured it was her kids being less than responsible, but wanted to be sure. We waited until another unit arrived. When the other guy got there, they said they were going to clear the house. I was hanging out with the lady in her driveway, and my friend said, "Nah, come in with us!" I walked into the kitchen with them. They drew out their Glocks and I just made a gun with my hand. We cleared the house. They didn't let me be point man and made sure I was out of the hallways before they opened any doors. The architecture of that house was a monstrosity. It must have started out pretty small, and been built on many times over the years. The owners must have drawn the plans by using a Magic 8 Ball each time. It was a mess. Very charming.
Then we went to a call about a broken down car that was parked in front of someone's house for 3 days. I got to write the ticket.
The
---n
---d
Sleep well, sweet Prince.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
that is why you should video any interactions with police.
(there's a whole bunch of videos on youtube of police telling people it's illegal to film, grabbing cameras etc. as well)
Cops lie and the US Government is corrupt...I could tell you more, but they would probably would just kill me. Did this nation form by armed revolution? Oh yeah...and the FBI is worthless...
If you don't video tape, the cops will probably video tape it for you. As you can tell just by the videos Byte posted, most of the evidence used to convict crooked cops comes from the dash cameras in their cruiser.
There are bad cops. Not everyone who gets through the screening process is honest or suited to be in law enforcement. The judicial system isn't perfect. Far from it.
If you were King or President for the day, how would you change it?
Some people make mistakes. Some people are bad. Some people are evil. Figuring out who is who before they hurt you or someone else is a problem everyone faces. Cops just tend to face that dilemna more often on a daily basis. Its just the nature of the work.
Thank you.
I have always been treated fairly by LEO's. I talk courteously, keep my hands where they can see them, have my license and registration ready etc etc.
I can't count the number of times I have been let off on speeding tickets - something I have really appreciated over the years.
TSA folks on the other hand... Some of them you can see the JBT attitude on their face. It's really unpleasant to be under their jurisdiction even if only for a few minutes. I'll be traveling on the 2nd so I'll let you guys know just how unpleasant it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Nah, Stuart, I am very much aware there are some less than stellar cops out there. That is what I do right now. I assist municipal and county agencies with their complex investigations, I read some really poor reports and I see some pretty bad policing going on. Most of which is due to poor training, poor pay and a lack of repetition of specific events. What I am saying is, your impression of the events is vastly different than the officers impression of the events and your interpretation of those events leads people astray.
Not to pick on Byte (I like you dude, so don't feel I am being mean), but in his versions of the event we have been speaking of, he believes he passed the SFST's and was detained. Not so. Detention is a short term (20 minutes or so) event and if he was held as long as he said he was, he was ARRESTED and did not pass the SFST's to the officers liking (there is far too many court cases and court decisions on this to muck it up). Pretty standard way of doing the job. There is a very specific way events of this nature have to be handled in order to be lawful in court and what he perceives happened, doesn't match normal police procedure. So by me asking for more specific details, I am trying to see what fits within and can be explained by normal police procedure and maybe understand what happened to Byte. I've done over 500 DUI arrests in my time as a patrol officer. Have I ever had a situation similar to Byte's? Yes, on a couple of occasions. One example: I had a guy who failed the SFST's and refused to provide a sample of breath into a PBT. I arrested him, processed him and he agreed to take a breath test on the Intoxilyzer 5000EN (a calibrated machine that is accepted in court proceedings) and he blew under the legal limit. I then stopped everything I was doing in regards to processing him and drove him back to his vehicle and he was released. Total time out of this man's life, +/- 1 hour. I explained everything to him and I even apologized even though it wasn't necessary, given how badly he performed the roadside maneuvers, had alcohol on his breath, was unsteady on his feet, etc. Now, looking back on that with age and more wisdom, I realize he may have had more than just alcohol on board and might have gone farther with a urine test for other things, but at the time, I released him without charges.
And Stuart, your family member walking drunk with a firearm on him is unlawful. Be pissed all you want, but he shouldn't have done that.
So, my friend. Yes, you seem to have more than your share of police contacts (by your own admission) and I wonder why. Natural curiosity. Maybe one day we'll sit down over a beer and you'll tell me about them. Maybe not.
No, I was mad because I thought that the gun was going to be destroyed and gone forever. That is why I was mad. That wasn't the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
Also, I said I have had an average amount of personal contact with the police. I have contact with the police less than once a year. For a a few years there, I averaged being pulled over about once a year, but that has been going down.
Also, if we got together to talk about all my experiences with the police, you would fall asleep.
Ha ha! Okay Stu. I just might fall asleep...might not though. I have a passion for my occupation as you probably can tell. The offer is still on the table if you ever want to discuss an issue over an adult beverage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Of course I'd go drink a beer with you. I don't want you to think that I wouldn't. I also don't want you to think that I'm a cop hater. I'm certainly not.
The question about the commanding officer: I'm not quite sure myself, I believe I read about it in a gun magazine about a year ago. I want to be as polite to the officer as much as I can. By saying, "no" sounds rude to me, and unless he has probable cause, If he is that determined to search my car because he called his commanding officer then I have it on recorded tape somewhere and hopefully he would not bother to search my car and just let me just drive right on out of town.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
But if I was carrying something illegal, I would definitly say no.
I guess instead of naked firearm I should have said, uncased firearm.
I do not have a CCW here in Maryland, because I don't carry around a lot of money and my life has not been threatened enough to be qualified to have one.
Firearms have to be cased in a vehicle for transport. No loaded pistol magazines. Ammunition for pistols must be transported in a different place other than than the pistol location. Like, if you have the pistol cased in your vehicle passenger compartment, ammo must be stored in the trunk.
I can drive around with an uncased gun sliding around on my dash board if I want.
dont do it Stuart... its a trap.
I'm sure I'd get the shit kicked out of me for it.
SSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck
Dammit, I wanted to see him do it...[ROFL1]
its like at thanksgiving when the MAN sends the free turkey dinner invitations to all the dirtbags. Who actually show up and get the nice stainless steel jewelery. What a bunch of dumb asses.
http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.c...its_a_trap.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
[ROFL1]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
I Just think its time EVERYONE was treated fairly and equally under the law.
- Any and all public officials suspended while under investigationis with pay*** IF* they are found guilty the pay given during the Investigation will be garnered back to the tax payers.
- ANY public official convicted of violation of civil rights will be immediately removed from their position and remanded to the custody of the state. None of this "They got a counseling and docked a days pay.".
- Any Public official convicted of abuse of their position.. See #3
If I punch a Cop and I am in the wrong (LOL...I know) I go to jail. I get a record... I lose my civil liberties and probably a few other things.
If a cop punches a Citizen and is in the wrong they get a paid vacation until all of the heat blows over and then a slap on the wrist.
double standard
do not want.
OneGuy Let me know when you want that Beer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERNO
I would tell you to contact someone there in Maryland who can tell you what Maryland law says concerning the issues. Back in 2003 here in Colorado, we had some pretty significant sweeping reforms come out regarding firearms and that is what I can specifically talk about. Other states have their own laws, which may conflict with Colorado law and I would hate to have someone get into trouble because they followed some advice posted here relating to another state other than theirs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
Awww, c'mon Byte. You're invited too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
I would agree about this issue and add that when politics gets involved, it all goes to sh*t! You can do some basic research on stories in the Denver Post about people who handle the citizen's money, that steal ten's of thousands of dollars from the citizens and who get off with a slap on the wrist.
Some examples:
Steve Atwood stole from Adams 12 in excess of $190,000 and got probation, no jail time.
Janelle Gonzales in Pueblo stole directly from citizens and from the state fair for approximately $100,000 and got probation and a deferred sentence which wipes away her conviction if she stays out of trouble for the next two years.
P.J. Trostel stole from the citizens of Elbert County in the range of $100,000 and is currently going through the court system. Will probably get probation as well.
There are far more, but I'm limited for time on this rant.
These types of cases really piss me off as they are public employees WHO STOLE the citizen's of Colorado's money and are not being PUNISHED. They need to be held to a higher accountability, a higher standard and need to have the hammer fall HARD.
I know Byte's comments are towards cops, I'm including others into the mix.
The trick is getting the conviction. There is a long tradition of good prosecutors becoming even better defense attorneys. The judicial system is slanted toward plea agreements and first time offenders (covers most law enforcement employees) tend toward diversion or probation before judgement, which is not necessarily the same as a conviction.
That said, I personally believe that if you can't follow the law, how can you uphold the law? Even though ignorance of the law is no defense, cops should still be held to a higher standard because they are expected to know the law.
Like most professions, administrative penalties are normally progressive, unless the seriousness of the action warrants immediate removal. Over a normal career, an individual cop can expect to have citizen's complain about their behavior. The only cops I know who have never had a complaint made against them are the cops who never arrested anyone or never actually did anything to protect the community they serve.
I like video evidence. It isn't perfect but it is a whole lot better than trying to read the body language of someone testifying on the witness stand six months to a year after the incident when they have been coached by their defense attorney and look much cleaner and professional than they did on the night of the arrest. I'm actually talking about cops here after they are charged with a crime.
Most cops (not all) I have worked with have a strong sense of honor and integrity. They often start their careers believing that the system gets it right more often than not. By the end of their careers they are happy when the system works reasonably well from time to time and they try not to let the failures keep them from doing their best. Bad cops make the job much harder for the rest of us to do our job. I want them gone as much, if not more than you do.
Most cops expect a certain percentage of people not to like them. After all, cops have the authority to take your freedom away. With that authority (I know, I can hear Eric Cartman in the back of my head) comes great responsibility. Its not a popularity contest. In the end, cops are required to keep the peace and only use the force necessary to keep that peace. Sometimes that means talking to people in a stern manner. Sometimes it means rolling around on the ground trying to get cuffs on someone bigger and stronger than you while you are praying for your back up to arrive. I don't ask for any sympathy for cops. We chose the occupation. We are not bound in servitude. When I or any cop thinks they have had enough, they should move along.
I'm thinking of becoming a machinist or a truck driver? Anyone looking for a half used up retired cop?
You're absolutely right and I agree with what you're saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
but given the choice between an unseen guy in an office embezzling money or a cop shooting me with a tazer and/or beating me with a baton, I'd prefer the former.
I Completely concur and when you find a job see if they have room for an opinionated, jaded, tired old soldier.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Actually I Did say ANY public official.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
and dont get me wrong, I dont hate cops. I hate CORRUPT, CROOKED and ABUSIVE public officials,(elected, appointed, Hired, whatever) until they start making themselves more readily identifiable, I am trusting no one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elhuero
C) None of the above
Storytime!!!
My first encounter while carrying, I was pulled over:
Cop: Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?
Me: My liscence and registration is in my wallet. I have a legally concealed firearm on my right hip. (Felt like I had to tell him cause he'd probably see it when I went for my wallet) May I pull out my wallet?
Cop: No Sir, you may exit the vehicle slowly however.
Me: Yes sir.
I get out, he puts me on the car, quick frisk... takes him a second to disarm me (holster lock). He clears the weapon. Asks if there are any other weapons on me or in the car. "No Sir" etc... Looks over firearm and asks for liscence, etc....
Cop: Nice Glock. I haven't seen the sub-compacts yet. How's it handle?
Me: Well, I really like it. Some people complain that the grip is too wide, but for my big hands it fits great. It runs smooth and the recoil is a lot lighter than I'd expect from a subby.
Cop: Well, I might have to try one sometime.
Me: Hey, well if I ever see you at the range, I'm usually out at Dragonmans on 94, I'll let you fire off a few.
Cop: Sounds good Mr. XXXXX. Here's your stuff back. Please slow it down for me out there ok? I'm sure your wife wants you home tonight.
Me: Yes Sir. Thank you. Be careful out there as well.
Accidently threw some shoulder gravel while pulling out... hehehe....
Glad he didn't shoot you in the Dick trying to get your gun out of the holster. Sounds like you enjoyed your time being bent over your car and that's what counts. I never look at the brighter side of things. Id feel harassed for no reason other than being honest. You made a friend. I'm going to take lifes lemons and go make some lemonade now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapLock
http://www.smileydesign.net/smileys/zombie08.gif