if you need firepower carry a judge ;)
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if you need firepower carry a judge ;)
Just be sure to get one that doesn't eat allot of McDonald's/Pizza hut.Quote:
Originally Posted by jreifsch80
Could twist your back or something.
[/kidding]
Yeah, nothing like 5 rounds of low velocity shot in a package the size of a sub gun to stop a fight...Quote:
Originally Posted by jreifsch80
And 45LC factory is almost the same as shooting 45ACP. Especially with the short barrel and cylinder gap. Never understood the concept of that gun myself. Too big for so little.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMoth
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
But they named it "The Judge" So it MUST be cool...
[ROFL1]
Well since you brought it up, I never understood the name choice either. Why would you advocate the thought process of self defense as judgement by naming a gun "judge". Nothing good can come from that. I mean its like an attorney's litigative wet-dream. I don't like the fact stuff like this is relevant, but it is what it is. Look at the demise of a basic hollow point bullet because it was called a black talon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
I've only gotten to shoot up a few cars, but I wouldn't want auto glass to protect me from a 9mm round. Found a "shootin" car out in the desert that couldn't have had 100 dollars worth of ammo in it yet. Was an old 78ish Ford Camper special "IE" thick steel. Even low velocity 38 FMJ rounds would pass through both doors. Granted was a pretty vertical windshield but went through that and the bench seat, and the cab behind the seat and through the bed. Stopped leaving a big dent on the inside of the tail gate.
230 45 acp hard ball against what ever flavor 9mm Nato or ?
Two firearms pointed at each other with the bullets impacting each other.
The first bullet that backs up loses.
After this can we talk about rifling twist on thirty caliber bullets for 165 grain.
Or whats the best way to remove machine marks to prevent LEO tracing of ejected brass.
Assuming you have replaced the barrel.
How about, at what velocity barrel length does M193 become ineffective. At what distance. I need a simple chart. Barrel length and velocity plus distance.
You forgot the pictorial on how to make a retention lanyard out of telephone cord for your katana... Noob ;)
i love my 9
first round i shot out of it, was gangster sideways... just cause
Ya I like to throw my bullets with my gun. Some times I even get them to bend in the air.[ROFL1]
When I had to abide by an agency decision on what round would be carried I defaulted to the .45
If I can choose my own round I'm happy with any of the +p+ 9mm's in the 115-127gr range. Winchester Ranger 127's and Federal 9PBLE are my preference.
It depends on the objective. If you are looking for CCW, the smaller the better. If you are looking for "the fun gun" find a good fit for the hand and ammo prices you can live with. My "fun gun" is a SR9, a little big for my CCW. My CCW is a PF-9 w/2 mags (& hot re-loads). I recommend a lot of practice with the CCW, since if you have to draw, IT WILL NOT BE IN A FUN SITUATION!
There is talk that law enforcement that switched in the 1980 1990's to 9mm and 40S&W for more fire power 15-18 rounds and up. found that there is no
Substitute for takedown power. So now in the last few years they are switching back to the 45ACP
So I would say takedown power 45acp
My glock 21 carrys 13 +1 and 2+2 makes it 15 and 1. So I think I would carry the 45 if I was looking for stopping power. But 9mm will work to if you have shot placement center mass or in the head. Basically shooters preference right :-)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
I carry all 3! Glock 23, Kimber pro carry, and H&K p30 in 9mm. All depends on what I'm doing and where I'm going. Pretty comfortable with my 9 anywhere with a correctly placed kill shot! Also will carry a LCP main or back up. Always have a problem with "knock down power", a properly placed shot with a 9 at 50ft is as leathal as any .45!
Ok... I'll play. I'm a sucker for abuse. [Tooth]
First, it's the singer, not the song. Next, I'll say any of the common service calibers will work if you put them in the right spot. Go with the caliber you think is coolest; you'll practice more.
So why have I always leaned .45 auto?
Started in the 80's with being a caliber tard, plain and simple... "if it doesn't start with a four and end in five", et cetera. Since then I've seen how effective other cartridges can be. But I still circle back to the .45 auto and lower capacity for a few reasons...
They all do the job, but the .45 auto does it at significantly lower pressures. One invaluable thing I've learned from an old sage reloader is rather than hot rodding a .357 mag, get a .44 mag and load mid range. You can pull a horse trailer with a 6 cylinder toyota, but you're overworking the crap out of that toyota. A V8 is much better suited to the job. .45 auto can do the same job without all the bang. Easier on your gun, no need to go into the world of +P, +P+, et cetera.
Also, the .45 auto is subsonic / not as noisy as many rounds.
It's also not as dependent on bullet construction as a 9mm. .45 fmj / ball ammo has 100 uncontroversial years under its belt, and with modern hollow points, it's just that much better. Not so with the 9mm. I'm a little more picky what I carry in mine than I am the .45's.
Just food for thought.
Ah I forgot about this thread, I'm glad you guys got as good of a laugh as I did about the "judge" haha maybe if you use cowboy action black powder loads you could make a smoke screen and run away.
Anyway for a real answer I wouldn't care, I'd carry either 9mm or .45acp and just have appropriate bullet selection. Heck if I had a 9x17mm and was most comfortable with it I'd chose it also I would be comfortable with a smith body guard .357 yeah may be only 5 rounds but my personal thoughts are that if 5 rounds aren't enough then I've got a lot more problems than just caliber selection haha
You know they make double stacked 45's right? [Coffee] They even have double stacked 1911's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
I ditched all my 9mm's after shooting a .45 for the first time. IDK what it is but there's just something very special about it. Don't get me wrong, the 9mm is a decent round and it works for alot of people.. just not for me.
I've shot .45 and 9mm, haven't shot .40 yet though. I actually prefer the way my XD9 handles over my buddy's S&W .45 that I shot. I suppose my pocket has something to say about cost of ammo too, but that's my own choice and personal financial situation. It works for me, and I'm glad I made the choice I did. :)
I've been known to carry either. I have 2 basically identical pistols, 1 in 9mm, the other in .45. I shoot the .45 better most of the time. I think it has to do with the report and the perceived "speed" of the recoil. I'm generally faster on follow up shots with the .45.
IDK,
I really like the 9mm, and 45. I recently got rid of the 40/357 sig.
9mm, you get alot of bullets, and with todays hp ammo out it really performs pretty damn good. cheap to shoot= alot of range time.
45 well its a tank, I really only care for it in the 1911 platform. fun but cost more, and its a pretty big bullet,
40 good round if you can shoot it well, affords a few more rounds than a 45, good middle ground.
Personally I like alot of little bullets/ 9mm. I've read alot of stats on offercer involved shootings that the accuracy of the trained professionaly (officer) under fire is somewhere around 33% so thats roughly 3/10 rounds hit the intended target. I often find myself carrying a Glock 19, hopefully i never have to use it, and hopefully I land ATLEAST 5/15 on target.
YMMV
I will gauranty you that if you shoot him with my Ruger Super RedHawk 44 magnum with a 340 grain bullet he will not live, do to the fact that he will no longer have a head. As far as 9mm vs 45 I am with everone with the g20 I have the 200 grain Double tap rounds and it is nasty, 15+1 it will do some damage. 45 is also a nice choice if you get a guy that is all hoped up on something like pcp you will drop him with the 45, the 9mm is going to go through most likely. As far as shot placement most people have not had close combat training so shot placement when your heart is racing is going to be a problem, again with a 45 it is going to take them down as long as you can put one in the guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMoth
[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3]Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain1
That is the biggest pile of BS I've seen on this board. Classic "this is a manly round, it'll take them down as long as you can get one hit on em" mentality.
There are PLENTY of instances where multiple hits with a .45ACP doesn't drop an attacker. Do a google search, you'll come up with plenty of news reports and statistics.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.... ALL handgun calibers suck, and they all suck pretty much equally. The difference in effect on target between a single 9mm round and a .45ACP (and a .357SIG, and a .40S&W) is negligible. There is no such thing as "stopping power"... the only true one hit drops are CNS shots, and if you're thinking that you'll pull off a CNS kill with one shot in a gunfight outside of pure luck... well if you're ever in a gunfight, I'll just chalk it up to Darwin at work.
I'll take a few dozen 9mm rounds over 8 .45 rounds anyday... and I can guarantee I can put more rounds on target in less time with my 9mm than you can with your .45.
More rounds on target is the best stopping power there is, and two .356" holes is always bigger than one .452" hole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
WELL SAID!...... more round on target... More holes more blood loss...
One shot drops... CNS... GOOD LUCK! Fire under stress, while being engaged, behind cover, ect.... its a whole different ball game....
This. If you want "stopping power", you don't want a handgun (at least in the "normal" defensive calibers).Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
As soon as somebody makes an IWB holster for my AR I'm all over that.
Hell...I sometimes carry a little Beretta .22LR or a .25ACP. Is it optimal? No. Unless I really need it. If that's what I happen to have at the time it's the best handgun/caliber combination out there.
I just don't get too wrapped up in worrying about is "Caliber X better than caliber Y?".
Funny stuff right there. Hit them in the torso and their head explodes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain1
Modern bullet technology has come a long way. As long as you arent shooting FMJ, its a wash.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain1
There are lots and lots of dead people that say both rounds kill. Carry what you can shoot the best. Just as long as you carry. I'd rather have a .22 in hand than a .50 AE in the safe.
As the great Mr. Heinlein said (in one of my favorite books) - "There are no dangerous weapons; there are only dangerous men."
Be a dangerous man.
One who practices with a 22
is far superior to one who doesn't
with a .45
YMMV
That may be one of my new favorite quotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick-Boy
Be a dangerous man. I've been called dangerous and took it as a compliment [Tooth] by someone that got a peek at my EDC.
This applies to everything in your life.
You want guys to see you at the range and say "man, that guy's f*ckin dangerous" (and not talking about basic gun safety).
You want to be just as dangerous with an extension cord as you are with a dinner plate, a cup of coffee, a blade, or a gun.
This applies to ALL aspects of life. Business (business is war, after all), romance, raising your offspring, cooking meals. Anything and everything you do you should do well and should strive to be the best at it, be a danger to others who have the same goal.
/tangent
You sound like a scholar of Sun Tzu [Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by mcantar18c
I work in an operating room in a Hospital in Aurora and over the last few years have seen an increasing number of people with gunshots come into the OR/ER.
Though it is not possible to tell, from the wounds, what caliber the person was shot with, the ones who don't survive all have the same thing in common, multiple hits to the head or chest/abdomen.
The lesson for me is that if you want to kill someone, shoot them repeatedly with good center of body shots and/or head shots.
I personally shoot handguns for sport and use 9mm and .22 cal. I feel comfortable occasionally carrying a 9mm with defensive loads for protection. If I am ever in a situation where I need to defend my life with a 9mm I won't hesitate to shoot multiple times and I'll know it was justified. I do wonder though what lawyers have to say about firing more than once against a single target in a defense situation.
I think that for consistent defensive carry or law enforcement purposes, .45 cal or .40 cal might be a better choice than 9mm.
I wonder if I can change my forum handle [Coffee]Quote:
Originally Posted by TFOGGER
Quote:
Originally Posted by njsco
Thanks mcantar18c for your reply.
When I said, "I think that for consistent defensive carry or law enforcement purposes, .45 cal or .40 cal might be a better choice than 9mm" I meant that my belief is that those rounds are probably more effective at incapacitating someone with fewer rounds fired than using a 9mm. For people who put themselves in situations where using a handgun, outside of the home, is possible i.e consistent defensive carry/law enforcement then actions will be very closely scrutinized. Stopping the target, not killing them is the objective. This is my belief, and like many, might not be correct.
I guess I am also a bit paranoid, this comes form working in the medical field where lawsuits and threats of them are routine.
And as I said before though, if someone threatens me and I feel my life is in jeopardy, I will fight to kill. For home defense I use a 12 gauge shotgun and have 9mm pistols available.
When I was going through my tactical training I practiced 2 in the chest and one to the head. Now the problem for most people is once you are being shot at, your heart is racing and shot placement is going to be a big problem. So I say that for 2 reasons 1 I dont think any jury is going to put you behind bars for unloading a gun into a guy, that is threatining your life especialy if he has a gun, 2 a bigger caliber like a 45 will help if you are having problems with shot placement when your heart is racing, do to it being such a big slow moving bullet it will put the target down pretty much anywere you hit it. Now I think if you were to unload more than 1 mag into a guy, or shoot some one when they are running away is when you will have a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by njsco
Dude...where do you come up with this stuff? I have to say I'm always entertained by your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain1
[ROFL2]
You might want to include a disclaimer that you're not a lawyer when you give terrible advice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrain1
Have you ever been shot at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns