More disturbing signs of Amerika the Police State

I truly don't see the problem if it's being taken against their will. That in and of itself provides the opportunity for people to go sideways, nevermind the fact that alcohol is involved, which makes almost anyone unpredictable. If I had to make an educated guess, it's probably because they have a civilian nurse doing the blood draw. That person is at great risk when dealing with a needle and someone who is under the influence of alcohol having a procedure done to them against their will. What the general public doesn't hear about is the large number of cases in HOSPITALS, not jails where these same types of draws were being done without people in restraints. ER staff have been injured, stuck by needles and even held hostage by people with the very needle being used to do the draw.

I can tell you much of that has stopped because hospitals have put policies in place to restrain any of these people during blood draws. I mean how horrible is it really when someone is strapped down for all of the 30 seconds or less it takes to do the draw and then the restraints are taken right back off. It helps keep civilian medical personnel safe. Almost every non-compliant person starts out as compliant at some point. Humans are always unpredictable even without the addition of alcohol into the scenario.

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Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500

I truly don't see the problem if it's being taken against their will. That in and of itself provides the opportunity for people to go sideways, nevermind the fact that alcohol is involved, which makes almost anyone unpredictable. If I had to make an educated guess, it's probably because they have a civilian nurse doing the blood draw. That person is at great risk when dealing with a needle and someone who is under the influence of alcohol having a procedure done to them against their will. What the general public doesn't hear about is the large number of cases in HOSPITALS, not jails where these same types of draws were being done without people in restraints. ER staff have been injured, stuck by needles and even held hostage by people with the very needle being used to do the draw.

I can tell you much of that has stopped because hospitals have put policies in place to restrain any of these people during blood draws. I mean how horrible is it really when someone is strapped down for all of the 30 seconds or less it takes to do the draw and then the restraints are taken right back off. It helps keep civilian medical personnel safe. Almost every non-compliant person starts out as compliant at some point. Humans are always unpredictable even without the addition of alcohol into the scenario.

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Ok what about when you are given the choice ( as I was) between blood or breath and I chose blood... should I have been strapped down? I coulda gone sideways right ? and I'm a big dood 6'3" 300+ I was larger then both the deputies damn near combined.

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Originally Posted by clublights

Ok what about when you are given the choice ( as I was) between blood or breath and I chose blood... should I have been strapped down? I coulda gone sideways right ? and I'm a big dood 6'3" 300+ I was larger then both the deputies damn near combined.

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I've never seen, and I don't think you ever would (even in this county), a voluntary draw done like this. Again, you are doing something against somebody's will...that is already putting a "dog in a corner" if you will. Of course anything can go bad at any time, even with a voluntary. And don't believe I haven't seen that happen. It's just a MUCH MUCH lower risk and things are still done to even minimize that risk.

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Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500

It's just a MUCH MUCH lower risk and things are still done to even minimize that risk.

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I get the officer saftey side of it ... and I'm sure that is 100% of the reason they do it like that in Gwinnette County, GA.

But like I said at the start... if it is THAT unsafe then maybe the policy should be dropped.

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Like I said when they did me on the blood both the deputies and tasers out and I'm quite sure if I flinched wrong I woulda "rode the lightening" but even drunk I'm not THAT Stupid to think it would be a good time LOL.

Seems like placing your arm through a slot in some glass, and being asked to hold onto a handle or something, while the person on The other side of the glass draws blood would be a simple solution. Somewhat reduces the mobility of the suspect, gives officers time to react if it does go sideways, etc. Not to mention it'd be relatively cheap and quick to create. Basically like sticking your arm through a teller window.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Seems like placing your arm through a slot in some glass, and being asked to hold onto a handle or something, while the person on The other side of the glass draws blood would be a simple solution. Somewhat reduces the mobility of the suspect, gives officers time to react if it does go sideways, etc. Not to mention it'd be relatively cheap and quick to create. Basically like sticking your arm through a teller window.

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look at you being all smart and shit.

this would protect everyone involved would not "dehumanize" like someone said earlier, or use excessive force like I call it...
save the straps and head locks for the problem children .. not the ones exercising their 5th amendment rights.

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Originally Posted by clublights

this would protect everyone involved would not "dehumanize" like someone said earlier, or use excessive force like I call it...
save the straps and head locks for the problem children .. not the ones exercising their 5th amendment rights.

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Then they would have to answer why they selectively chose to use or not use the straps and head locks. Our litigious society has led to these zero tolerance policies where they treat everyone the same crappy way to avoid some of the lawsuits.

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

Oh my god, another cop bashing thread by a bunch CO AR15 lawyers. Weird!. You see once stupid Youtube video and you all think that it actually goes like this? Get a grip.

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Really? Is that what you see?

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Originally Posted by J

Ok, KevDen, I think you know (and if you do not, ask the other LEOs on the board) that I am usually the first to strike down, and I come down hard on cop bashing on this site. But I haven't seen any here, so lets not cry wolf.

Additionally, your argument is patently false. Lets swap DUI with Terrorist...

When your family member is killed by a Terrorist, you will wonder why we aren't recording more phone calls, emails and text messages to keep them from getting away with it. None of us like these NSA taps, etc.

Additionally, the facts say that anyone who refuses to blow gets a warrant for a forcible blood draw. It says NOTHING about probable cause or reasonable suspicion. Shouldn't there at least be probable cause to get the warrant (as is required in all other warrants)? You limit it to people who are swerving, wreak of alcohol, blow a red light, you get me to agree a bunch more. But simply refusing a search (breathalyzer) is not probable cause OR reasonable suspicion, and this has been held up repeatedly at the highest levels of courts.

Just because it is a DUI and people lose family members to DUIs doesn't mean that due process and proper procedure should be followed all the same. In fact, I think that it is very concerning that you feel that a particular crime may warrant special treatment outside the limits of due process while others do not.

ETA, in your response to "I hope you are never a victim people"

I would strongly prefer to be a victim than a subject.

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amen to that... great post

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Originally Posted by Gman

Then they would have to answer why they selectively chose to use or not use the straps and head locks. Our litigious society has led to these zero tolerance policies where they treat everyone the same crappy way to avoid some of the lawsuits.

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It's quite simple, "inmate A was compliant, inmate B was not", no different than any other time they have to use restraints or force. You are being compliant and non disruptive, you get to sit in the day room with all the other big kids, you cause a scene and act like a three year old, you get a cell and possibly a restraint chair.