My wife is Chinese, and it was a fairly large and expensive PITA for her to become a US Citizen, and after being a part of the process I have zero sympathy or tolerance for illegals.
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My wife is Chinese, and it was a fairly large and expensive PITA for her to become a US Citizen, and after being a part of the process I have zero sympathy or tolerance for illegals.
Border states have at times majority Mexican nationals, especially towards the beginning. And also no quotas or immigration visas; somehow, the US managed to not be taken over in the 1800s, nor the border states secede from the Union (well, not for that reason, anyway.)Quote:
Originally Posted by flan7211
I also suggest you get your economics from places other than Hannity. Like maybe open a book some time. It's been established - across spectrums of economists from liberal to conservative to libertarian - that immigrants are, at worst, net-neutral in terms of economic impact on the US. This isn't pie in the sky stuff, it's the reality.
The ethnic identity of the US has evolved over the years, and the same arguments (stealing our jobs, destroying our culture, ruining our government, etc etc ad infinitum) has been rolled out for every last ethnic group that has come here; Irish, Italians, east euros, Mexicans in the past, asians, you name it. Every last immigrant wave has been the special immigrant wave that will ruin America forever, honest.
A bit of historical perspective may make me a bit cynical, but excuse me if I find it ironic that the same exact arguments against letting mexicans immigrate legally as much as they want are trotted out as been trotted out against every previous immigrant group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho Villa
Who is Hannity? Ok buster how about Frederich List, Hamilton, Clay, Smith, or Burke? Once again source the fact that the hispanic immigrants have been coming in for 3+ generations and refuse to assimilate. Geography is still key. They can walk back home, send money back home. They were technically here first, and harbor bitterness at us for it. The majority of them are not learning our customs.
Assimilate- I think that is key!Quote:
Originally Posted by flan7211
I believe the claimant has to provide sources. Let's see some.Quote:
Originally Posted by flan7211
Also, your first economist is the father of a (mostly) defunct school of economics based on collectivism and that heavily influenced the batshit economies of fascist states. That isn't super surprising but it is funny.
hahahaha ok big guy, you can associate his theories with the American School which built the US into a economic superpower. Is "collectivism" all you've got when referring to the American School of Economic Theory. Sad. Sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho Villa
Also other than your trite responses such as "collectivism" you've provided nothing. You won't respond to anything other than economics. What of culture friend?
Jesus, I don't want to bring the wrath of the mods down, but you really are dumb. I can't hold it in any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho Villa
A few things- in terms of economics the arguments you are citing about immigration are not taking in the massive influx of ILLEGAL immigration, hell, they're not talking about that at all. Illegal immigration is bad for an economy. Look at the strain refugees put on Pakistan in the 1980's after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Oh sorry, too hard of history for you there? Refugees, and aliens do not aid economic growth, immigration, sure, but not unless it's contributory to the nation they are immigrating into- which the illegal kind is not. They are, in fact, making this place worse.
And your comparison to the Italian/Irish/European immigration? Wow... sorry, saying you're dumb is just insulting to dumb people. You're talking about the early 1900s, the start of the industrial era. More workers was a good thing, despite the idea at the time that they were taking all the good jobs. It worked out just fine because we had the model in place for them to thrive here. They became legal citizens and paid their dues on the way to prosperity (with a minor hiccup with the great depression). We have never had a group of people so un-inclined to become part of the whole as we have now. The Italians came here, some of them the most heritage-proud people ever, but still said "I'm an American." What do we see now? "Soy un Mexicano!" We're not asking to remove your ancestral identity, we're asking that you be proud to live here and have the opportunity to make a better life. I've met people from all over, Puerto Rico, Russia, Germany, Canada, Iraq, Iran, all of them immigrated here legally, and they're proud ____-Americans and they all are trying to integrate into our culture without losing their cultural identity. They all spoke English, and what words and phrases they didn't know, they made an honest effort.
I don't hate people based on their culture, color, religion, or gender, but when they come here and refuse to learn the language, Fuck you, get out. When they come here and refuse to follow our laws (est. 2011 more than 40% of Colorado uninsured motorists were estimated to be illegal)- and that includes the way they came in- fuck you, get out.
You comparing this problem to the 1800s? Are you fucking high? This problem is much more recent. They didn't hop the fence by the 10's of thousands per day in 1850. But they sure as hell do now in 2012. [Bang]
Here are other things to consider for comparisons with immigration from other places and Mexico/Latin America:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho Villa
1. Sheer volume. If one investigates, comparisions in volume will drop your jaw.
2. Speaking 1 language. European immigrants spoke 40 plus languages (at least)
3. History with Mexico.
4. What is being taught in Mexican schools about Manifest Destiny, etc.
5. 80% of the drugs coming into the US come via Mexico.
6. There isn't 3000 miles of ocean to cross, no physical barriers.
7. Flying Mexican flags in our streets in 2006 when amnesty was being proposed, to intimidate and persuade.
8. Immigration Reform Act of 1986 aka "Never again amnesty" So here we are 20 million illegal aliens later.
9. Unemployment for teens and people in their early 20's is around 24%. Traditionally service jobs. And we are told illegals/immigrants are here to "only pick lettuce".
10. Instant benefits. No else got them. Why do ILLEGAL ALIENS? Illegal aliens are a net loss. It has been proven time and time again. Hell, the kids on the playground know this just from common sense.
11. An legitimate American with only a H.S. degree will use up more benefits than they produce, yet some would have us believe a man with a 5th grade education and his extended illiterate family won't?
12. How about some civil rights for citizens? What about fairness for us and our children as our ethnic majority and culutre also is diminished? You don't think we want what is best for our children? It isn't more illegal aliens.
I am from the border, born and raised. I have heard these same kind of "comparsions" about turning a blind eye to illegal aliens for over 35 years.
Free market economics built America into an economic powerhouse, not nationalist bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by flan7211
Culture changes. Values continue to matter, particularly in the case of rational egoism and free markets. The people who stay and vote are the ones who are most attracted to here and who will adopt those values.
By generation 2, most offspring of immigrants (legal and illegal) are bilingual. Starting with gen 3, significant percentages don't even speak spanish. If you want a proxy for assimilation, there's a half decent one.
The fact is, I think citizenship should be hard to get and residency easy to get. Our legal system provides for that already; let's just use it
Go visit boston and you'll see a ton of IRISH PRIDE and Irish flags. No one goes whining that they're not assimilating. If they like Mexico they can go back to it any time, as you've mentioned; so it seems unlikely that people who just don't like the US would stay long term anyway.
Where are you getting this? I've seen people who came here, speak 0 English and their children speak very broken English. I'm going to bet that their children will speak very little English. They're coming here and building their own version of a "dome city" where they all gather around each other and have their microcosm of a society. They don't need to speak English to make it in this mini-society... but oh wait, we have to expand, because there are too many of them they need to be employed outside their little mini-society, so what happens? The rest of us have to bend over and appease them by learning their language instead of them learning ours. I know several hispanic families that only speak to their children in Spanish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pancho Villa