https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6_QWieZlU
Be careful if you go out and have a beer...now they forcibly take a blood sample!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6_QWieZlU
Be careful if you go out and have a beer...now they forcibly take a blood sample!
Its pretty simple dont drink and drive. Maybe if you have one of your family members ran dow and killed by a drunk driver you might change your tune. Its real simple if your gonna drink man up and dont drive.
I can not have to watch this video and based on your comment know that is completely false...in contrast the Supreme Court actually made it extremely difficult to draw blood for DUI crashes resulting in death or serious bodily injury.
It can and does happen. Just takes a judges order.
If you refuse to blow then they can get a judge to order a blood test.
GEtting the warrart and taking the blood.. sure...
but the full on strap down head lock thing is horse shit ESP on a compliant subject. I get the officer safety part but if it is unsafe for the officers then don't do it.
Yeah this video is fabricated...Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
I know.. Those were all actors pretending to be strapped down and the news anchors reporting on the story were actors as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by BushMasterBoy
Those were some good actors getting strapped down. They really made it come through as if they did not want to be there and were upset. Watch out Hollywood, you have some competition coming.Quote:
Originally Posted by bryjcom
Agree, completely out of line.Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
"sir you've refused both a field sobriety test and a breathalyzer, we've now obtained a warrant for a blood test, at this point it is non negotiable, are you going to cooperate with us?"
Oh my god, another cop bashing thread by a bunch CO AR15 lawyers. Weird!. You see once stupid Youtube video and you all think that it actually goes like this? Get a grip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
I don;t see a bit of "cop bashing" going on.
everyone to this point has been rather polite about it and voiced our opinion that wht is shown in the video is not right. not only is it shown it's admitted by the sheriff of the department doing it that that is how they do it.
how is that bashing ?
Not really, you admitted to not watching the evidence given to you yet you still respond. They get a search warrant from an on call judge strap your ass to a table and take your blood. How did SCOTUS make it really really hard to take your blood?Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
The bashing just hasn't started yet, but like all of these threads, that is exactly where it's going. Most on here watch too many movies and think they have a clue with what cops do. How about going to a DUI crash where some piece of crap crashed into three cars completely destroying them, injuring several and killing one. That person has had numerous DUI's and no jail time. Doesn't have a license. And now we will be required to get a warrant for the blood draw which won't be less than two hours which the state requires for a test to be completed. How about the numerous times that DUI's kick or punch me or nearly run over a police officer or fire fighter. You guys see one video and think that's how it goes. Sometimes people get strapped down who are non compliant. It's called custody. Don't drink and drive and it won't happen to you.
At the end of the day, when you or a family member is seriously injured by a DUI driver and you lose in court you will wonder what that DUI driver got away with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid
Well for those of us that have had to write warrants on probable cause know that it's not just a phone call that get's a warrant. The news is always right you know. I have said it so many times on this site. Everyone on here makes it a point to state when the news is wrong, which is nearly every time there is something mentioned of the news, EXCEPT when it shows the police doing what you think is a violation to your rights. If you kill someone while DUI, we can take your blood and it makes you a murderer, think about that.
We are talking about THIS News Report / VideoQuote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
In it ( have you watched it yet?) The Sheriff of Douglas County GA says they strap down ( and use a head lock type control) EVERY subject who has has the warrant issued. Compliant or not.
Edit:
Just to add another sheriff in GA who has MORE DUI arrests does not do the tie down and control method on compliant subjects.
I'm aware that you are talking about THIS video. I'm aware that they are strapping every person down in that jurisdiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
AND...
Never mind, I'm done. Hope you're never a victim people.
And that's the thing I can't get behind.Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
And WHAT?
so violating the rights ( sorry I see the strap down on a complaint subject as excessive use of force) is ok cuz people die in DUI accidents?
people are killed by guns so I guess a no knock raid to make sure your guns haven't killed anybody is ok in YOUR opinion?
Ok, KevDen, I think you know (and if you do not, ask the other LEOs on the board) that I am usually the first to strike down, and I come down hard on cop bashing on this site. But I haven't seen any here, so lets not cry wolf.
Additionally, your argument is patently false. Lets swap DUI with Terrorist...
When your family member is killed by a Terrorist, you will wonder why we aren't recording more phone calls, emails and text messages to keep them from getting away with it. None of us like these NSA taps, etc.
Additionally, the facts say that anyone who refuses to blow gets a warrant for a forcible blood draw. It says NOTHING about probable cause or reasonable suspicion. Shouldn't there at least be probable cause to get the warrant (as is required in all other warrants)? You limit it to people who are swerving, wreak of alcohol, blow a red light, you get me to agree a bunch more. But simply refusing a search (breathalyzer) is not probable cause OR reasonable suspicion, and this has been held up repeatedly at the highest levels of courts.
Just because it is a DUI and people lose family members to DUIs doesn't mean that due process and proper procedure should be followed all the same. In fact, I think that it is very concerning that you feel that a particular crime may warrant special treatment outside the limits of due process while others do not.
ETA, in your response to "I hope you are never a victim people"
I would strongly prefer to be a victim than a subject.
And I need to say sorry to the Sheriff of Douglas County GA....
it' Gwinnett County GA that is doing the strap down .
Quote:
Originally Posted by J
I have ZERO problem with the police getting the warrant and taking the blood. do what ya gotta do officer...
Now strapping down and head locking a COMPLIANT subject to take said blood is where it crosses the line.
if the subject was resisting physically or implied they would sure strap em down and take the blood. but someone who has done nothing but verbally( and legally ) refused the tests why strap them down ? other places in GA don't seem to need to strap everyone down .. why this county ?
Whether it feels like it or not, the most effective discussions, on any subject, are when both sides actually speak with each other and relate their experiences; as opposed to shutting out the other side.
What does us thinking it is excessive have to do with being a victim? What if I have been a victim?Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
Here is my issue....
Let's say I'm in Gwinnitt county visiting family. I crack a beer, take a couple sips, and uncle John says hey hurley, I just remembered we need propane for the grill. Alright let me run to the store (which I wouldn't do, but we are pretending).
I get half way there, and get pulled over because uncle John forgot to replace his left brake light. Officer smells alcohol and asks me to do a roadside, "I understand your position officer, however I've been advised by my attorney to not take a roadside"
Okay hurley, would you be willing to submit to a breathalyzer? "I've also been advised to not submit to a breathalyzer". Okay hurley, unfortunately I'm going to have to place you under arrest and take you to the station (miranda and all that good stuff).
Meanwhile back at the station..... Okay hurley, you have one last opportunity to submit to a breathalyzer, and then we will obtain a warrant for a blood draw. "I'm sorry but I will not submit to a breathalyzer".
Up to this point I've been extremely polite and cooperative, and actually well under the limit, but that doesn't matter, I get the same treatment as the guy kicking and screaming.
How much sense does that make? I don't want to hear officer safety either.
Now this is all hypothetical, I wouldn't put myself in that position to begin with, I'd make the Ol lady drive me lol.
Also, would it hurt to just once in awhile acknowledge that maybe some agencies have crappy policies? It has nothing to do with bashing cops.
Glad to see some rational thought in here and open-mindedness. ;) Due process IS done in these situations. A breathalyzer is NOT done unless Probable Cause already exists to ask for a chemical test (breath or blood). It already exists to "force" mandatory draws on felony DUI's. The due process lies with the fact that probable cause exists for the arrest already and there is evidence, inside the body, that can and should be collected. The fact is, DUI arrests/cases have become an absolute court system circus. There are so many, and so many defense attorneys making a living on them, that EVERY minuscule detail of the crime is argued and beaten to a pulp. All this in the effort to keep people from being held accountable for making decisions that kill, as mentioned in the video, more American's than military conflicts and gun violence. It has become an absolute joke. So I say, good for any law enforcement entity that can find a way to make accountability more effective. Slaps on the wrist and absurd defense attorneys are the reason DUI related deaths are still an epidemic....NO accountability or consequences.
As for the strapping down in ALL cases, that doesn't show common sense. However, for people to be so horrified by it is ridiculous. This happens all the time, just usually in a hospital bed in four-point restraints rather than in a cell. Just a matter of the location shouldn't freak people out, but it does.
The only heartburn I had with this thread is that the OP labeled the recovery of evidence in a crime, by a search warrant, as "Amerika the Police State". If you want to get technical, the evidence in the crime of a DUI for which probable cause existed for a arrest, is coursing through the veins of the DUI driver. The refusal to allow it's recovery could constitute the destruction of evidence...if you really want to get semi-philosophical. In any other case outside of a DUI, whether felony or not, would allow for a search warrant to recover ANY evidence of the crime...and also punish anyone who would tamper or destroy said evidence.
Add one further. If a family member of yours was killed by a drunk driver...OR even a knife wielding lunatic for the sake of argument...would you not want Law Enforcement to collect ANY and ALL evidence linked to the crime to properly prosecute the case in the best interest of your family member/victim??
Just my .02
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500
Your honestly OK with strapping down and head locking a compliant subject down ?
the county that started the warrants does NOT do that and gets more convictions....
Finished my thought...probably while you were typing this...Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
And why is this not cause for concern?Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500
In the case of the compliant folks, nobody was hurt (that I could tell), and I'm sure it went rather smooth, but that's not the point, it's called being demoralized.
Look, I'm not a chocolate heart by any stretch, and I think drunk drivers need the hammer, but even convicted felons (in Colorado anyway), are treated better than these folks.
Why can't they do what they do in adam's county CO ( at least 10 years ago )
I earned myself a DUI bout 10 years ago ...
I was very compliant with the Deputies and chose blood over breath ...
when the nurse came to take the blood I had two deputies flank me with tasers drawn but not aimed..
seemed like enough to keep everyone save. but again I was compliant ......if I had been an asshole I would understand being strapped down and head locked.
Yup seems like that is how it worked out ....Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500
The location doesn;t bother me jail or hospital... if the person is not being combative ... there should be no need to take those kind of steps .
feels to me the same as PIT maneuvering every car instead of bothering with the lights and siren first .
I truly don't see the problem if it's being taken against their will. That in and of itself provides the opportunity for people to go sideways, nevermind the fact that alcohol is involved, which makes almost anyone unpredictable. If I had to make an educated guess, it's probably because they have a civilian nurse doing the blood draw. That person is at great risk when dealing with a needle and someone who is under the influence of alcohol having a procedure done to them against their will. What the general public doesn't hear about is the large number of cases in HOSPITALS, not jails where these same types of draws were being done without people in restraints. ER staff have been injured, stuck by needles and even held hostage by people with the very needle being used to do the draw.
I can tell you much of that has stopped because hospitals have put policies in place to restrain any of these people during blood draws. I mean how horrible is it really when someone is strapped down for all of the 30 seconds or less it takes to do the draw and then the restraints are taken right back off. It helps keep civilian medical personnel safe. Almost every non-compliant person starts out as compliant at some point. Humans are always unpredictable even without the addition of alcohol into the scenario.
Ok what about when you are given the choice ( as I was) between blood or breath and I chose blood... should I have been strapped down? I coulda gone sideways right ? and I'm a big dood 6'3" 300+ I was larger then both the deputies damn near combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500
I've never seen, and I don't think you ever would (even in this county), a voluntary draw done like this. Again, you are doing something against somebody's will...that is already putting a "dog in a corner" if you will. Of course anything can go bad at any time, even with a voluntary. And don't believe I haven't seen that happen. It's just a MUCH MUCH lower risk and things are still done to even minimize that risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
I get the officer saftey side of it ... and I'm sure that is 100% of the reason they do it like that in Gwinnette County, GA.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyJK500
But like I said at the start... if it is THAT unsafe then maybe the policy should be dropped.
edit:
Like I said when they did me on the blood both the deputies and tasers out and I'm quite sure if I flinched wrong I woulda "rode the lightening" but even drunk I'm not THAT Stupid to think it would be a good time LOL.
Seems like placing your arm through a slot in some glass, and being asked to hold onto a handle or something, while the person on The other side of the glass draws blood would be a simple solution. Somewhat reduces the mobility of the suspect, gives officers time to react if it does go sideways, etc. Not to mention it'd be relatively cheap and quick to create. Basically like sticking your arm through a teller window.
look at you being all smart and shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
this would protect everyone involved would not "dehumanize" like someone said earlier, or use excessive force like I call it...
save the straps and head locks for the problem children .. not the ones exercising their 5th amendment rights.
Then they would have to answer why they selectively chose to use or not use the straps and head locks. Our litigious society has led to these zero tolerance policies where they treat everyone the same crappy way to avoid some of the lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by clublights
Really? Is that what you see?Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by J
amen to that... great post
It's quite simple, "inmate A was compliant, inmate B was not", no different than any other time they have to use restraints or force. You are being compliant and non disruptive, you get to sit in the day room with all the other big kids, you cause a scene and act like a three year old, you get a cell and possibly a restraint chair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman