It happened last night. Multiple ARs were stolen. There was another smash and grab like this at a gun shop in Houston a few weeks ago. Hope it doesn't keep trending like this.
http://kdvr.com/2016/03/10/guns-poss...-in-stapleton/
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It happened last night. Multiple ARs were stolen. There was another smash and grab like this at a gun shop in Houston a few weeks ago. Hope it doesn't keep trending like this.
http://kdvr.com/2016/03/10/guns-poss...-in-stapleton/
News says Basspro is on lockdown, but that is most likely police being overly cautious.
Two things
1 how does this happen? Why weren't they locked up?
2: really fox you're going to start the article off with this many adjective to describe a .22caliber rifle. "High-powered AR-15 assault weapons were possibly stolen during a burglary at the Bass Pro Shops at The Shops at Northfield Stapleton early Thursday morning."
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Good thing they will only have 10 round magazines with them. They won't be much danger to anyone.
On a side note, pretty ballsey (or nuts) to break into a big store like that. Aren't the firearms on the second floor there?
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Inside job is what I'm thinking
I know quite a few gun stores that move their firearms from the shelf into actual safes at night, and back out in the day.
Sure, it's extra time and money, but at least it prevents this.
That's what I figured most did. I thought they did this alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by Grant H.
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Great police response time to an alarm... I mean you only have to go to the second floor all the way in the back
Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.
Wathched the vid, MSR demonizing at its best: Jim Hooley reports from the scene: " AR-15's the assault style rifles, very high power tactical rifles- the AR-15's" ...
Where were the cops in all this? It takes time to get upstairs and to the guns then grab them and head back out.
and what are all those safes doing empty up there?
There's no reason not to with wage paid employees and plenty of time in the AM to set up shop. I know mom/pops get lazy but these corporate joints need to have controls in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
I'd like to know more details, but the "journalists" can't get past the words ASSAULT WEAPONS!!!
Yup. And if any of these guns are used in crimes it will be front page news. No mention of how background checks don't work. No contrast with the other ways criminals have gotten guns (a certain Fed agency).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser.Shooter
I've been in the security room there. I've seen fewer cameras at .gov installations! I'm sure the cops have lots of footage to get through-most of the cameras can't be easily reached so vid won't be a problem. If it gets solved I'd agree with a high probability of inside help.
I used to work at a Mom & Pop many years ago. After having someone drive a truck through our storefront twice, once after we installed reinforced concrete bollards, we started locking all the guns up in safes every night, and putting them back out every day. Took two guys about 30 minutes to take them out or put them up. So perhaps $5-7K a year in added labor cost, but certainly cheaper then replacing storefront windows, paying increased insurance premiums, and the fear associated with putting illegal guns on the street. Our unbelievably tight-fisted owner was willing to pay it.
Lots of things one can do for security. Alarms, cameras, locating the firearms at the furthest location from the door... chains, cables, $10 of thousands of dollars or safes, locking gun racks, mylar and grates on all windows an doors, overnight security guards, big fucking rotties, laser beams on the trout in the tanks...
Cals Armory was a second story fucking fortress with a man trap at the front and he got strong armed robbed (I know once for sure, it might have been twice). Dave's Guns got rammed by a stolen station wagon in the back.
Seriously, lots of judgy "common sense" security specialists posting on this thread. Their liability, their security system expenses. I bet I could kick in the front door or most of the poster's in this thread because your are too lazy to change the 3/4" screws on the kick plates and hinges to 3" screws. I also bet my 12 year old could rake open your $30 non-security pin deadbolt front door lock too. Those are your liability, your security system expenses.
It just makes sense. Add in whatever legal liability can come and it's a slam dunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyEgo
I would find a way to work it in with working hours to avoid the cost. Inventory/check-in as part of closing while transfers are finalized. Check out in the morning as soon as you open. If someone wants to see/buy a gun at open, just pull it first.
Still want to know more about this... Hopefully they guns can be recovered.
The reason they don't put firearms in safes at night and take them back out during the day is simple: Employees do more damage to the firearms taking them in and out each day - and the store has insurance for robberies not for daily handling. Further, people typically protect the outside and never protect the inside (hard and crunchy on the outside - soft and gooey on the inside). Same everywhere.
This has been the rule at multiple LGS I have worked at/with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
^^^ This!!
If it was an inside job, I assume the insider would know about the security measures in place, and disable cameras, right?
I grew up close to a gun store in Michigan that was built in an old (probably 100+yr old) bank building. The area that had the guns was the actual vault for the bank... Back when banks actually had the cash of all their customers on site. At night, they just closed the 1ft thick vault door and time sealed it for the night. I don't know how good that door would hold up against modern tactics, but it sure as heck wasn't going to get rammed or pried open. Unfortunately, most of their traffic was people who wanted to check out the vault and not buy anything, and they went out of business after just a few years open. I swung past there last summer and it was an uppity clothing store and the vault was just another part of their floor space. The sweet vault door was basically hidden behind some clothing racks.
At any rate, building a 15x30' vault as the gun showroom might be cheaper than some of the other security measures people would undertake.
Also keep in mind, they dont do inventory on daily or weekly basis. What's stopping anyone from letting one or two firearms walk out the door w/ his/her accomplice, and now that inventory time coming up, lets break a window, set off the alarm. #2, bad inventory w/ few missing items are not that uncommon. Someone broke a window, then a snap count produced few missing items.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
That's a crappy scenario. Only way to protect against that is to hire the right people.... Which, as I'm sure you know, is easier said than done.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChunkyMonkey
Whoa, too much coffee today? There's very little in the form of critical comments here. Just a couple wondering why the guns weren't locked in safes. Especially not much here to justify calling other folks lazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
Suriously strange place to rob. I'm not sure what back entrances are there, but from the front door, thats not a quick in-n-out job and I bet you must pass dozens of cameras on the way.
LOL! In today's world, that's almost impossible.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
Which can happen just pulling a pistol out of a case or taking a rifle down from a rack.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmo
1. Buy a Rubbermaid cart
2. Case everything you can
I don't have a big sign on my front lawn that says "FREE FIREARMS FOR FELONS."Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
Level of security should be relative to risk, yes? Or is that not "common sense?"
Sadly, it's hard to know who the right people are. In the years I worked firearm retail, several of my coworkers were fired for employee dishonesty, including things like stealing buckets of brass from the range, taking a case of ammo out with the cardboard recycling and then retrieving it from the dumpster, and purposefully ringing up items incorrectly for friends. Some of these folks seemed like good, honest people; prior military, gun enthusiasts, one married with a kid. You never know until you've been tested, and for some folks, it turns out their integrity was on sale for a couple hundred bucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
We had cameras all over, including one over the registry, but we lacked a quality inventory control system. We used a price gun to label things, and manually entered pricing on the register. It was hard to know exactly what was in and what had gone out at any given time. The odds seemed like folks could get away with it, and many did for a time. What usually lead to their downfall is that once they started down that path, they found it hard to stop, and time eventually caught up with them.
As to locking the guns up every night, they didn't get any more shelf wear than they might have otherwise received on active display. We hit them with a Rig Rag to remove customer fingerprints, and laid them in foam lined crates that stacked on top of one another. On to a dolly and then rolled into a TL rated safe. Long guns were put in another safe by hand, but I guess we were either careful or nobody complained about finish wear. We were a small shop, so perhaps it was easier for us, but similar procedures were followed by most of the other facilities in town. Then again, our population density and crime rate were considerably higher than Colorado, so perhaps it isn't considered necessary here.
Not buying or selling, as I have long been out of the business. Never was, or will be, a security specialist. Just a former retail gun store employee, commenting on what our practices were and the reasons behind them. If this offends anyone or causes anyone to hope I am subject to a home invasion, then I'd suggest a deep breath is probably in order.
Edited to read "customer fingerprints" instead of "customer footprints".
Wait were they robbed or burglarized
Robbery
Robbery is defined by the law as taking or trying to take something from someone that has value by utilizing intimidation, force or threat. In order for robbery to take place, a victim must be present at the scene and can occur with a single victim or, in cases like bank hold ups, multiple victims.
Burglary
Burglary is defined by the law as the unlawful entry to a structure to commit theft or a felony. In order for burglary to take place, a victim does not have to be present. When a burglary takes place, the structure being unlawfully entered can be any number of building types including business offices, personal homes and even garden sheds. Burglary is not the term used for crimes committed on cars.
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According to Merriam-Webster:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Quote:
Simple Definition of rob
- : to take money or property from (a person or a place) illegally and sometimes by using force, violence, or threats
- : to keep (someone) from getting something expected or wanted
The thieves took property from Bass Pro illegally, hence Bass Pro was robbed according to common and proper use of the English language.
It was. Their level of risk was low for robbery and medium to high for damage from handling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
Seriously BassPro didn't do anything wrong here. There is no perfect security - all things can be broken into with enough time/money/clue/brute-force: pick any two.
But was there a victim or person presentQuote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
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This. All the security in the world doesnt matter if someone wants in bad enough. All you can do is try to deter people. Make it hard enough that they dont want to put in the effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmo
they were burglarized. not robbed, regardless of what Merriam-Webster says about it. Do you think the DA uses the dictionary to draft the felony information?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter
Yup I'm giving Dave a hard timeQuote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111
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I belive Obama also quote Merriam websters
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He was giving the OP a hard time when the OP was citing a news article (not a legal brief) and well within common usage. I know Black's Law Dictionary is a bit more specific and actually in line with Gunner but DaveL wasn't presenting a brief to the court.Quote:
Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111
Nah, Obama is from the camp that makes it up rather than consult a dictionary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
I completely disagree and the fact his happens (not the only case) demonstrates the risk isn't low.Quote:
Originally Posted by asmo
I do agree there is no perfect security. But turning it into a boolean proposition doesn't absolve Bass Pro of being careless if they left the guns out all night in a vacant store.
We're at a point were this kind of thing has collective consequences. I know we all hate that but it's true. Normally I wouldn't invest myself in someone else's miscalculated risk. But let just one of those guns be used in a shooting and see what happens.
Why I outta....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Everyone is way too uptight around here lately... It's an Internet forum! Education is a secondary priority whereas comic relief is the primary. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
Well that sure sounds like a liberal argument... Are you sure that's what you meant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
Dictating the actions of the individual (taking away their liberty) for the benefit of the collective is the exact argument used to support ALL gun control, Obamacare, and most other progressive talking points.
Hopefully the thieves all went to an FFL and got their BGC's done.
It is a Liberal argument and it is winning. I said we all hated it. Doesn't change our reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoneyBadger
Evil black rifles "falling into the wrong hands" won't do us any favors. This is why the ATF ran Fast 'n Furious, to make sure guns fell into the wrong hands to create data points and heart wrenching tragedies to counter decreasing gun violence.
We see a failure of gun control in this. Feels driven voters see a need for more gun control.
Statistics, facts, etc... Won't matter.
In essence, we become Liberals' self-fulfilling prophecy by being stupid. Leaving firearms openly unsecured in a vacant store known by all to sell firearms is careless if not stupid. Just like none of us leave a gun in the open and unsecured when we leave our homes which are not known by all to have firearms.
(I am ASSuming that is what happened but I still want to know more)
I'm not saying the Liberal argument is right. I'm just saying folks shouldn't be stupid because the consequences are broad given the status quo.
And I never said Bass Pro should be forced to anything different. I said they were careless. I don't believe in a world where people are forced to make good decisions. But it's coming and stupid people are only hurrying it.