Interesting read
https://byrslf.co/thoughts-on-the-ve...g-14af397cee2c
Printable View
Interesting read
https://byrslf.co/thoughts-on-the-ve...g-14af397cee2c
I don't buy it. He seems to be painting the picture of a lonely child throwing a tantrum.
I read that article earlier and i still think you have to have something way more seriously wrong to plan an attack like this. However, I think there is *some* validity to the idea that as we get more technologically advanced, we're losing what it means to be a human. The internet has turned people into complete a$$holes that wouldnt say 90% of the stuff to someone's face, in real life. The internet has multiplied the ability to outcast someone because they can never get away from it. Its only getting worse as the nation gets divided more too. Ive had people personally message me on Facebook degrading me after making a joke about the Dallas Cowboys. They also proceeded to make fun of my wife as she was in my profile picture. The internet can be a disgusting place and humans are addicted to it for some odd reason.
Humans need to be humans. We arent designed for this fast paced, 30 second attention span. It causes people to short circuit. Now add in a number of any other factors and we start seeing recipes for disaster. So while the article blames it on nurturing, I see it as we are forgetting how to be human. Thats just my $.02.
Good thoughts IMHO. Stuff to keep thinking about. Not sure there are good solutions when people decide to isolate themselves.
I think another factor is: In the absence of objective morality, all that matters is one's id. There isn't a shared concept of right/wrong anymore especially when you are cut off from others/activities with others.
I got the same sense from James Holmes' journal. He needed to be validated and saw no significant consequences ("justice system" is a joke). He did what was right for him. Same with Columbine. Same with (what we know) Sandy Hook.
Not sure that is in play here though. There is a lot of information that has yet to be released.
Next thing they will tell us is the Viagra quit working. More proof that Viagra kills.
Author:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hoehn
I read it and there is a lot of good information in there. But, lets face it, if you are on this board, you HAVE a hobby and play time and chances are good that some of your friends are also your shooting buddies...so most of what the author talks about will (and should) seem foreign as to direct application to your life. A pattern of despair and isolation, or a chemical imbalance is quicksand for some people and that path can lead to degradation.
Engineers and Accountants are some odd ducks in general. At one point I read an article about the lifespan of Lockheed-Martin based on date of retirement...18 months. No kids, no Job, no hobby, nobody dependant upon you...sounds like many men's dream, but it is a nightmare. Regardless of one's worldview, we need to be needed/wanted/admired and how that comes out is a little different in each of use. But devoid of that, again, how it comes out is a little different.
And the shooting sports are not immune. I have seen more men with addictive personalities in the shooting sports than in any other life segment. When they get bored, they move on. But I can give you two that I have personal connections to (Blane West and Matt Burkett) that both went down the rabbit hole and ended up with felony and drug charges. The final few years of the decline was not pretty for either and we are just lucky one of them did not take the path of going out in a hail of bullets.
This article might, or might not, be relevant to the LV Shooter, but that does not dismiss the validity and insight.
https://retireediary.wordpress.com/2...t-early-death/Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Never thought about this before. Always assumed retirement would be great, especially earlier... I need a new job!
It all depends on what you call retirement. My grandfather retired from his medical practice very early and spent his next 30 years playing golf and traveling around the world. He had friends and he had hobbies. My dad also retired relatively early but he had golf, his golfing buddies, puttering around the house, and his first grandson -- I'm convinced he'd still be around if it hadn't been for the cancer. It's the guy who has nothing else in his life other than work who loses meaning to his life on "retirement". I believe most of them lose the will to live because they've lost meaning. I don't think it explains this psycho at all as he appeared to have his own hobbies with flying and gambling.
This is what I notice as well, and along those lines, most people in our society have policed ourselves but that is changing;Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
http://youtu.be/YjntXYDPw44
A friend sent me a message today and in it he stated: " Narcissism is needed to be the best at any activity. I'm sure our desire to have a well rounded kid has..." which I generally agree with. I took the article as pointing out the path that most mass shooters start upon, not a feel sorry for him plea. However it happens, they still make the choice to embrace and foster the evil/hate, or shun it.
Thanks for the perspective foxtrot. Will have to research that some.
I was just thinking the other day why we didn't see massive amounts of gun violence back in the days when you could buy a firearm over the counter at Sears. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that society is glued to their phones, the internet, Facebook, etc.
I'm sure that's not all of it or maybe even ANY of it...but it does seem like kids are going out to play less and less these days.
I think that's been posted before and it makes a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
I always challenged atheists... If I'm wrong, I'll I've done is tried to hold myself to an objective standard. OTOH, look at what moral relativism has won us. Suddenly the "sky wizard" ain't so bad.
That's the key.Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
There is nothing wrong with being self-interested, wanting to be good at something, or wanting to be successful in general. When I go to work, I work hard to be successful and that is a put off for a lot of people these days (for multiple reasons) but it's because I expect the reward and thus work to get it.
I have been told this is narcissism by actual narcissists.
I wouldn't take something I'm not entitled to nor would I manipulate someone into giving it to me. I will insist on having what I've earned.
Sky wizards and their followers cause a significant loss of life nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
Not really. And if so, certainly far less than the Atheists of the last century.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
HEY! I resemble that remark ! [Coffee]
I couldn’t read that. Sounds like that dudeet or what ever has some serious issues. He set the tone when he started off with jimmy kimbel or what ever his spelling is don’t really care
There are 3 things I have to say about this.
First I have been telling my friends for a number of years now that we are doing our children a disservice. We are removing their play time at school and this idea that everything has to be a teaching experience is distructive. This takes away their outlet for stress. Takes away their ability to learn creativity.
Secondly the idea that what you do for a job is who you are is destructive, when you lose your job or retire you lose your self identity. I never aspired to be this profession or that profession. There are a few jobs that I have thought as might enjoy but nothing that I ever thought was who I wanted to be.
Finally as to why we are seeing more and more mass shootings...it has to do with a lack of respect. A lack of respect for others and a lack of respect for things. We teach teens to respect the privilege of driving...or at least used to. Now they don't even get that often unless they take a private drivers ed class.
As best as I can tell this general lack of respect began in the 60s with all the things that took place there but completely took hold with the legalizing of abortion. When we don't respect the life of the most vulnerable how can we be expected to respect the lives of anyone?
The investigation on what happened and by whom isn't even done. Dipshits are already weighing in on how firearm laws need to be changed... Before the investigation is complete.
Other... 'folks' here are now commenting on why a 60-ish dude killed folks... before the investigation is complete.
This thread is retarded.
This^Quote:
Originally Posted by jhood001
I don't think we'll get the truth though, because more than likely it wont fit the anti-gun or politically correct narrative.
Not sure how many of you know the author John Ringo, but give this a read for a pretty plausible explanation.
Quote:
A Theory on Las Vegas
JOHN RINGO·WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 4, 2017
I may be the only person in the 'pundit' world who can put what we know about the Las Vegas shooter in perspective because I've dealt with something similar before. My personal take, at this point, is 'homicidal psychotic break, rationale currently unknown, possible pharmacological.'
To debunk a few of the recent urban legends and prolapse some of the stupider arguments:
ISIS: Nothing in his electronic trail indicates any contact with ISIS despite their claims and some rumors. Nothing.
'There were multiple shooters/he was a patsy!': All the guns in the room were registered to Paddock. He was covered in GSR and even had burns on his hands from hot barrel/rounds.
'He was antifa killing Republicans!': Nothing in his electronic trail indicates the slightest political affiliation or interest. Nothing.
There weren't even angry emails. He never posted comments. Rarely read political news. Nada.
Gambling debts! He was broke!
Paddock was a habitual hobby gambler who was the sort of person casinos hate. He would set a budget on his gambling and stick to it religiously. He also rarely lost big or won big and never let either one change his habits.
He was a perfectly normal, successful, retired accountant well-invested in real estate with very little or no recent change in demeanor or actions.
Perfectly normal guy and only a ‘loner’ to the extent he wasn’t terribly socially active. ‘Loner’ apparently means he didn’t frequent wild parties. If he had the narrative would be ‘wild party animal.’
'Homicidal psychotic break means he couldn't have done the planning!'
Au contraire. Deep sigh. Been here, had someone in my life nearly do if not that than similar. With their permission I will now recount a story and show why everything about this makes a terrible sort of sense to me. The story is about my lovely and extremely loving wife, Miriam, and her descent to homicidal psychotic break due to a nasty drug interaction.
My wife has had the same doctor since she was a child. Old 'country' doctor who is the only person who has ever been able to handle Miriam's many oddities. A limited list:
My wife:
Has four kidneys and four ankles. (She ate the good twin.)
Was once listed as one of the top five Adult ADHD in the US and the only one who was clinically functional.
Has supremely bizarre drug interactions and thereby hangs this tale.
Miriam is a 'limited case pharmacological phenotype.' What does that mean? You know where on the warning label it says: 'in rare cases may cause you to grow two heads and fly to the moon'? Miriam is 'rare cases.' Every single time she tries a new prescription drug (fill in reason here) she is 'rare cases.'
This involves the 'in rare cases' effect of a drug called Cymbalta. Notably, as Cymbalta NOW states 'in rare cases may cause homicidal or suicidal psychotic break. Should not be prescribed to teenagers.' (Because it turns out in MOST cases WILL cause psychotic break in teenagers.)
Miriam was prescribed Cymbalta for 'depression' by her doctor in the early fall of 2007. I don't really remember if it seemed to work or not but she remained on it. I do recall that there as a shooting (by a teenager) that December in Nebraska in a mall. And I do recall Miriam's uncharacteristic comment.
'He only managed to kill five people in a crowded mall at Christmas time with a pistol and three magazines? He really needed to learn how to shoot.'
My wife is extremely loving and extremely Christian. Her normal response would have been 'That's terrible. God bless their souls and I hope he finds peace!' 'I could have done better' metaphorically was... not Miriam. I'll admit I didn't really notice it at the time.
Nor did I notice that over the course of the next several months (not sure when it started) we started to have a lot of 'off-brand' bleach around the house. Miriam is a lovely wife but cleaning is not her thing. But she also purchases in a very random manner. (Note the ADHD thing.) This did seem to be alot of bleach, though. I mentioned it a couple of times in jest. (We finally ran through all the bleach she bought in 2007-8 about a year ago. That much bleach.)
I didn't realize there were twenty-nine more gallon bottles in the trunk of her car.
I do recall during a rather bad time (possibly around below) that 'when she was gone' (and it had the feeling of 'soon') I wouldn't have to worry about the cats because 'they would be coming with her.' Miriam occasionally says odd things but that stood out. I'm more than aware of various forms of murder suicide and it was... discomforting. But... Miriam sometimes says odd things. (Used to. Far less these days for a variety of reasons. She's gotten SANER with menopause which is... just as bizarre as everything else.)
Things around Mother's Day got bad but they usually are. (Reasons I won't relate.) Then at a certain point I got a call from my loving wife (GF at the time) saying she was coming home from work, early, and we needed to go to Parkridge. I wasn't even sure what 'Parkridge' was.
Parkridge is one of the hospitals in the area but the specific one she mentioned was the psychiatric hospital.
I asked her on the drive over what was wrong. She didn't want to talk about it. For various 'privacy' reasons I wasn't well informed at the time. But I'll fill in the blanks for you in ways they weren't filled in for me.
She finally realized something was VERY wrong and checked herself in. Miriam had had a 'homicidal psychotic break' due to a side effect of Cymbalta. In most cases this is light and happens during the first couple of months or first month. NOW doctors are told to evaluate regularly in the first few months. THEN there was no warning. And NOBODY goes nine months. Except someone with ENORMOUS coping skills who has had to deal with madness that drove others insane on a daily basis her whole life.
(By the way, the teenager in the mall above? Guess what anti-depressant he was on? One guess and it rhymes with 'Sin Malta'. He’d been on it a few months, prescribed right around the same time as Miriam.)
So my loving wife coped. She controlled. As she slowly went ever-loving NUTS.
The specific issue was she had 'an uncontrollable desire to do harm to those who do harm to others.' Notably, she'd built up a list of persons on the Megan's (sexual predators) List and had developed very carefully constructed kill plans for each. She was tracking them and targeting them carefully. She has an extensive background in forensics and was probably going to get away with it.
Now, people may look at the targets and go 'Well... Uhm... having a hard time with that being 'bad'.' But to be very clear, my wife had shifted, subtly and without warning, from sweet, Christian, Miriam to serial killer. And I do mean without ANY REAL WARNING.
I didn't know exactly what was going on at the time. I was approached by one of the staff after a few hours sitting in a hard chair out front.
'I understand you're an author?'
'Yes. What's going on? Is Miriam okay?' (We weren't married at the time. Yes, I married her AFTER this, people.)
'She's being evaluated. But I understand you work from home? Are there frequently?'
'Pretty much all the time.'
'We can release her if she is under 24 hour monitoring...'
I had to sign to get her out pledging I would maintain '24 hour monitoring.' (Yes, I had to sign an actual release taking responsibility for the actions of an adult. They wouldn't tell me FOR WHAT ACTIONS.)
Miriam covered the big stuff on the ride home. I didn't get lots of detail til... years later. Details such as: Manson-like she had started to get the other patients, and even staff, to agree that her plan totally made sense in her first group therapy session. That was the real reason they were sending her home. They were afraid she was infecting the patients and staff and would form a 'kill sexual predators' cult.
(I guess they thought I was immune or something.)
Issues with this went on and on for months as it slowly leached from her system.
But let me relate it to Las Vegas.
Most people think of 'homicidal break' as someone suddenly 'grabbing a letter opener and carving their way out of Cost Accountancy and into forensic history.' (H/t: the late Sir Terry Pratchett.)
That's not, generally, how it works. How much planning and preparation a person does depends upon how rapid the onset is (months in Miriam's case) and how good they are at planning and preparation. (Both Miriam and Paddock were planners. He was an accountant and multi-millionaire.)
So look at the story above and break it down:
Relatively normal person, perhaps a bit odd, has minor changes in behavior that no-one in their close circle really notices.
He/she is a methodical person with an agenda. Other people who've done mass kills simply did not do it right. He/she is going to do it right. He knows they hold concerts by the Mandalay. That's the perfect venue for the most kills.
Suddenly they're a mass killer for no apparent reason.
That was what WAS going to happen with my wife.
So, Paddock doesn't really surprise me. I've seen it before.
My guess is it will be doctors who figure it out. And if they do they'll find he either was having a bad drug reaction (in which case nobody will admit nothin’ just as they’ve never admitted it was Cymbalta that caused the Westroads Mall Shooting) or neurological degeneration of some sort. (A tumor caused the University of Texas ‘Bell Tower’ shooting.) If pharmacological, the drug doesn't even have to be a definitively 'psychotropic' drug. Many drugs these days from heart medicine to anti-malarials have some psychotropic effect.
(If this had anything to do with a drug reaction, any drug of any type, I hope the survivors sue the shit out of the drug manufacturer. Because most of these recent 'crazy' mass kills, going all the way back to the 'postal worker' epidemic (overdosage of Prozac) and Columbine (both kids were hopped to their gills on prescription anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs), have had SOMETHING to do with psychotropic drugs pushed by drug companies. Many of the murder/suicides of returning military personnel were closely linked to an anti-malarial. And nobody seems to be willing to speak truth to power on the subject. Just writing this post will probably get me sued.)
The only lesson to take from this is 'keep an eye on your loved ones especially if they have ANY changes in prescription.' Doesn’t matter if it’s heart medication. Keep an eye on their personality as well as health.
Homicidal break does not always happen quickly. Sometimes it creeps in like the fog on cats feet. It is only at the last that the cackle of madness is heard. By then it is too late.
May God rest all their souls and let them find peace.
(This is public. Please share.)
Would you say more or less than 100,000,000?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
Did you read the thread? You will find multiple people saying we're not sure this is in play here.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhood001
What the piece addresses are issues that we've seen with other mass-murderers and society in general. Not sure the thread is 'tarded because those issues aren't going away even if this wasn't a factor in LV.
Hard to say. Islam has killed an awful lot of people in the past couple decades alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
First thing to do is examine this criminal's brain forensically. See if any tumors, viral afflictions, hematomas etc. Laboratory analysis may provide clues as to why this event happened. All psychiatric problems usually have a physical basis.
Outside of Islam? Order of 10KQuote:
Originally Posted by Ridge
People killed by secular, moral relativist governments in the 20th century alone: Order of 100M
(At least we think. Mao and Stalin didn't keep good records on their solutions).
Also interesting... I can think of exactly one time Muslims disarmed their opponents prior to genocide (Armenian genocide). Not counting the current coalition of Dim/Libs/Muslims in the US/West, this is rare. Maybe that is changing? They certainly like gun free zones.
But secular governments have all disarmed their people prior to genociding. It's a prerequisite.
So this fight for "gun rights" is really more than just that. And I think we probably all agree whether we can articulate it in our own way or just feel it knowing human nature. The kind of damage a Cuomo or Clinton do eliminating people who don't belong or irredeemables (their words messaging their fantasies to their base) dwarfs the damage done by religion. And those words are Lib dog whistles for exactly what they want.
If we really trust a moral relativist secular government, we have no need for guns outside hunting. Heard that one before? That's exactly how Libs see it because that is the government they are building.
ETA: Since I mentioned the Armenia genocide... The Promise is a great movie that covers this and was well done. PG-13 but I wouldn't watch it with anyone under 16 in the room.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4776998/
Has some good actors in it, Hollywood shunned it. Remember how they fawned over Schindler's List (another good one IMHO)? Yeah, this is not history Libs want people to know.
I did. I read a couple pages on why or 'who' (come'on with the semantics) could have done this. And I saw a lot of theories revolving around 'if people were just more like me, this wouldn't have happened'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip
I'm not saying that any of the contributors here are wrong. I'm saying that anyone here saying anything about the 'why' or 'who'(seriously, semantics) of this tragedy knows more about their own lives at this point than they do anything about what happened in Las Vegas... And that is what they should probably be focusing on.
That's very true. There are intellectually lazy people who have canned ideas ready to go (just like gun bans). I'm really wondering why there hasn't been more info released in LV but that's another conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by jhood001
In the meantime we have plenty of little monsters we do know about (I could use their names but we should probably stop like Fox has said); Columbine, Sandy Hook, Aurora, etc... And all it's taking is a handful of these to give gov a monopoly on violence which they are morally and legally (in this country) prevented from having.
These little monsters share a background/attributes.
"Mental illness" gets lazy too... I have friends with mental health issues, none have murdered anyone.