What would you prefer to carry. A full size 9MM with 18 rounds or a full size 45ACP with 8 rounds.
Please include the reasons for your choice.[Beer]
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What would you prefer to carry. A full size 9MM with 18 rounds or a full size 45ACP with 8 rounds.
Please include the reasons for your choice.[Beer]
One of the reasons I shoot 9mm is When I was younger durring the Cliton ban, I would pick up a cheaper than dirt catolog and look at all the Pistol mags and they had ruger p-89 30 rd mags for $14 bucks. I was sold after that. And being a cheap basterd 9mm (at the time) was around 5-6 bucks a box .45 was around $10 per box. Am happy with my 9's but have not had to use it in self-defence, so Am not 100% how it will preform.
...the one I shoot best.
I often carry both (not at the same time) depending on my mood for the day, clothing selection, daily activities, etc... Either is sufficient for protection. It's more of a personal choice rather than anything scientific. Of course you'll get the expected responses of "the .45 has more KE, the 9 has a higher capacity magazine," and "just get a hi-cap .45." Just wear what you are comfortable with.
Considering that I current have a limit on options. I carry a .45 with 13
XDc with an extended Magazine.
this is what I carry, your results may vary.
Wow, I've never heard or read of this question being asked before.
This should wrap-up with a decisive answer pretty quickly.
Yeah, I really can't see this going over more than about 3/4 of a page.Quote:
Originally Posted by agent-smith
I'm not looking for a decisive answer. I'm looking for opinions. Nothing like a smartass new guy!Quote:
Originally Posted by agent-smith
10mm.
[Tooth]
Saw that comin. Even had the list of posters of narrowed down to about a half dozen or so. Ya, you were high on the list.[Coffee]Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
Almost 10mm. How about .40S&W? The true middle of the road choice. High capacity, good ballistics, and lots of choices. If you have the money you can always swap barrels and shoot .357 SIG out of the same gun and magazines.
[Ban3]Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Pretty much can do the same thing with the G20. If I lose all my good looks and become rich, I may get the .40 and the .357 barrels for mine.
THIS. Might as well have both, high capacity and bigger bullets with lots of power...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
As for 9mm vs .45, I don't see a problem with either for protection from humans. I shoot mainly 9mm at the range because it cheap, but if I ever had to shoot at a human I would prefer to be shooting them with a .45. That said, I wouldn't feel underpowered using a 9, as long as you're using good quality HP's...
If I was carrying one for the woods, then I would definitely want to go with something bigger/heavier than the 9mm. I would be using a .40 at a minimum, preferably a .45 or better yet, my G-20 (10mm).
I could also add, with a 6" barrel for the G20, You are legal to hunt. [Tooth]
You really need to read this article:Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2045.htm
That said, I went through what you are going through, post 1986 FBI Miami shoot out.
I was a LEO and we were allowed to carry just about any reliable firearm that we could qualify with as long as it was a .380ACP minimum.
I carried a 6 shot S&W 357 Mag at the time and was switching over to an auto. I had recently been shot in the hip with a 9mm and was seriously against the 9mm because I was so poorly wounded by one. (read didn't even slow me down and only had to take a couple of days off)
My back up at the time was a Springfield Armory Champion in 45ACP.
(Just listing my experience and use of most common calibers)
I ended up going to a Glock G20 in 10mm (15+1 round capacity)
357 mag equivalent in a 15 round capacity
Since then I have sold my 45ACP, 1911's. I still have the 10mm. But I have also picked back up the 9mm. I don't feel under gunned with today's premium 9mm bullet technology.
I know a lot of people like the 45ACP, but I don't. Heavy, low capacity(most). Personally I think it should have retired before the year 2000. There are some relics who just like the old proven, but today there are lots of better choices. Have you looked into the 9x23 Dillon? (10mm necked down to 9mm) It ZINGS!
Necked down pistol cases are the devil [Muaha].
To answer the original question, I would have to say which ever I shoot the best. If I shoot them equally well, I prefer big bullets over small bullets. I don't fear the reload with a less capacity mag. The reload is all in the practice.
Talk to a thorasic cavity surgen that lives here in the front range. He's also an avid shooter. He's worked on hundreds of shooting victims. Most of them were shot with small bullets. He doesn't get to work on many shot with the big bullets, they die. The few that make the table, he's said, have massive wounds in comparison.
Thompson and Lagarde bullet test 1904
[Drill Instructor Voice]
[DrillS]
Listen up sh*theads!
DISMISSED!
- Your Weapon is only as effective as you are.
- You must train everyday to be true to your weapon.
- Your weapon will NEVER Save your life, YOU will save your life with your weapon.
- The capacity of your weapon only needs to equal your number of available targets.
- If you fire a round at a target and you miss, you Have let down the man on your left and your right and have become a liability on the battlefield.
- The most effective tool you can place on your weapon is training.
[/Drill Instructor Voice]
:D
13-1 and or 15-1 total 16 rds. GLOCK 21 45ACP
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byte Stryke
A guy in a pistol/carbine course I went to got shot seven times with a .45ACP and managed to keep the fight going and kill the guy who shot him. I'll take shot placement and training emphasis over caliber any day.
As such, I shoot 9mm. Not only is it cheaper to train with, it's what I've gotten to train for free with at a few various jobs.
Well I guess your right about that [UZI][UZI][UZI][UZI]But two to the body and one to the head, game over brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rat
Why stop at three? Depending on the number of threats, two to the body, two to the head, then two more to the head, then two more... Shoot till the threat is no longer a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcompact30
Obviously round placement is key. The only way to get good at round placement is practice, practice, practice. No one can tell another what they should shoot because you should shoot what you are good at and what you can afford to practice with and practice with it often.
If I shot .45 better, and could afford to shoot a few thousand rounds of .45, perhaps that is where I would have gone. If is was practical I would probably just carry a 12 gauge shotgun with alternating 00 and slugs, where the shot placement is important and the stopping power is obvious.
Some like Hondas, and some like Peterbuilts. I don't want to be hit by either.
agreed .40s&w the way to go
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
But like he said, its MIDDLE of the road- with the 10mm you get the high power AND high capacity, no trade-offs here... [Weight]Quote:
Originally Posted by porfiriozg
No doubt, 10mm and .45 ACP are great rounds (you just know there is a but coming)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoopty
If you are buying factory JHP, almost all 10mm will cost twice as much per round than .40S&W. In fact, .45 ACP in JHP is usually easier to find and cheaper than 10mm. No doubt someone will come along and prove me wrong. Its been known to happpen. [Flower]
That said, shoot what you shoot best. There are plenty of choices and choices are good.
You definitely got that right, 10mm ammo is downright expensive. Reloading is your best bet when it comes to that. Sometimes you can get lucky looking online but that's really not too common. [Help]
Like I stated earlier, I shoot mostly 9mm at the range because its cheap. [Tooth] With the Glock 20 you can get a .40 conversion barrel and save a ton by practicing mostly with that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
No,it is the same price, you just get half as much 10 as you do .40.
[LOL]
.40 S&W is totally kissing your sister. Not as fast as 9mm not as much whack as .45 and is pricey to boot. If you got the dough run .45 if you don't run 9mm. For me personally I would rather have the extra time at the range and more ammo on target. Shoot a ton, shoot good, shoot 9mm
I have had the opportunity to attend some excellent LE firearm instructor courses taught by retired LE and FBI agents. In all three courses the question has come up for discussion, usually from some young police officer or deputy that has been shooting Glocks his entire 3 year career.
Now, it's important to note that the FBI is really into statistics, this is one of the things that they do really well. They gather facts and metrics from all over the U.S. and publish there findings. They are usually about 2 years behind on the analysis but the results are always interesting. It is also important to note that these published reports and studies always lack a solid "And so what?" summary or assessment of what it all means.
One of the instructors, who was a retired LEO, had helped gather metrics for one of those studies. The way he gathered the "metrics" was to observe the autopsy of victims of death by firearms. He would use steal rods to push through the entry and exit wounds and measure the displacement of body tissue and bone. The Coroner makes the determination on the cause of death and probability of which round or rounds were the fatal shot(s). Then based on that determination this FBI Agent would use the rods, displacement measurements, caliber, weight and types of rounds used to list on the report to send back east to Quantico VA.
He said without any hesitation that the most lethal round was the .40S&W. Most of us .45ACP 1911 guys stirred in our chairs because this is obviously something that needed some explaining. Now before you start flaming me with rebuttals, this was based on the statistics of the number of rounds fired against the number of rounds that were determined to be the shots that caused the death. Understanding that baseline, the statistics were probably off based on the large number of LEOs that use .40S&W handguns to begin with. I really would have liked to see an index based on caliber rather than just on the general cause of death.
Anyway, for what it's worth (not much I know), that's my 2-cents worth.
I Enjoy the .40S&W
I run them through my KP944 and have allot of fun with them.
Not quite as much kick as the .45ACP but WAY more available.
I can go into Wally world and get a Large range pack of .40 on the cheap when they dont have any .45 at all.
My favorite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
Why, yes. I have a Storm Lake 6" barrel for my G20. My G20 has replaced my Smith 686 as my GP gun. I bought it for handgun pig hunting originally, even though I didn't much care for glocks. It has become my favorite all-around handgun. It's a bit large for CCW, though. Right now I carry a SIG P225 because it's small enough, ultra reliable, and I have it. I've decided that I'm going to get a G29 for CCW use sometime in the next year, and then that will be my primary CCW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
Otherwise, I'd have a G30, G36, or compact XD45.
Yeah but you gotta admit that was funny!Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
People on all forums I frequent are sensitive to the never ending debate on calibers, ESPECIALLY those two (9mm vs. 45). In fact, the industry answered with a perfect compromise . . . the .40 cal.
But to give you the opinions and answers you seek: Years ago I would have chosen the 9mm. It's hard enough carrying a gun let a lone a spare mag and while statistics prove a .45 octo-mag is enough, I like having the many more rounds a modern 9mm provides! But lately I've been leaning toward the larger calibers. I've read some disturbing things about 9mm's performance in actual shoot outs. This is from police and FBI data . . . things like their sometimes inability to penetrate a car window and multiple center of mass hits not stopping a large and/or aggressive (drugged up) assailant. If I was only able to choose between those two, today it would be the .45. However if I can add my own choice, I'm going with the .40. The cops are not having any of those issues mentioned above and I still get double digit rounds in the same size package.
[Weight]
I have a G20 and G29, the G20 was my first glock. I found a case of Norma 170gr and 200gr a decade back, and that's my carry ammo. I handload otherwise.
When I first got the G29 I was ready to be brutalized by the recoil in the smaller gun. I was more than surprised that the felt recoil in the 29 was LESS than the G20.
As it turns out the slide itself is beefier, heavier. The recoil assembly is a double spring setup, lighter primary spring and heavier secondary. But I think the heavy slide is the culprit for the lighter recoil.
I've had and sold a lot of pistols since I got the G20 in 1996, and that gun is the only one I still have. I have a jarvis match barrel in it and a six inch hunting barrel i rarely use. I found 8k of nickle plated brass from somewhere back when the FBI was using the 10mm, and handload that for practice.
You're going to wonder why you didn't buy the G29 first.
9mm will allow you to practic more for us poor people. Shot placement is where it is.
"No one likes to Leak"
So with that I'd rather have a pink .380 that says C**ksucker on the slide than nothing at all.
I could see how that argument works if you do not reload i picked up a single stage press and reload my plinking .45 for less than 9mm white box sure it takes a while but i usually reload while surfing here or watching tv. for 1000 rds of 230 grain fmj My cost is $119 for bullets $27 for primers and lets say $8 dollars for powder. so for 155 dollars plus 7 hrs of my time spread through out the month i have 1000 rounds customized for my gun to shoot. white box in 9mm is 300 at 14.99 a boxQuote:
Originally Posted by Jordanls19
I decided to go with the 45acp. I just posted my 9mm in the classifieds. Thanks for the input.[Beer]
When everything is said and done the guy who hits first is going to win the fight. More people have died by 9mm than any other full power cartridge and by a long margin. What really matters is you and what you can handle. Conventional wisdom says carry the largest calliber you can handle "well". A compact carry pistol in fight stopping 45 does you no good if you can't hit with it decisively and that goes for the fast follow up shot as well. I bought an officers model 45 year ago. When I went to the range I found I couldn't hit anything with it because the recoil had me flinching so bad. I've since learned how to shoot and manage recoil 1000% better and just recently switched from a G19/23 to a Wilson Compact CQB. I was really nervous the first time I took it to the range because of pior experience, but found that 50k rounds down range can really change a fella and his abilities. I now feel completely confident that I made the right decision in switching to my 45. I've seen the balistic gel cavities for 9, 40 and 45. They are all devistating. Bigger is usually better, but only if you can shoot it well. You're performance as a shooter is really the key factor here not how big your rocks are. The reason this debat is so humorous is because it really isn't about caliber, but rather ability.
+1. Spot on. (But bigger is better, in almost everything! [Tooth])Quote:
Originally Posted by CO-Exprs
What was that statistic about the amount of rounds fired in a civilian firefight?
3 or 4 rounds? 10-20 feet away from each other?
With that in mind, I'd go with either 40 S&W or 45 ACP as capacity isn't a factor. BUT it's always good to have more than you need....
sorry to break the trend.
Handguns suck.
They are notoriously poor fight stoppers.
Why then argue about which works the best when in reality none do?
The point is that they are much easier to carry than a rifle or shotgun.
You can study stat's all day, all night, and read x vs y.
Handguns suck, caliber doesn't matter. Central Nervous system shots will stop from the point of impact south. Brain stem shots stop immediately. Doesn't matter on cartridge.
If you want to stop a fight, carry a few claymores and set them up in an appropriate array.
til then, carry your handgun cause it's easy to hide and shoot until the threat stops.
Practice on your techniques!
Practice
Practice
Practice...
If you need firepower, your handgun is the WRONG tool for the job.
Just remember that Simo Hayha got shot in the face with what has been reported to be an 'explosive round' allegedly from some sort of light anti armor rifle... and lived. What chance has a pistol got of guaranteeing a 1 shot stop?
So, i highly recommend using the ammo your fire arm is chambered in ;)