Now arrest them!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/us...rals.html?_r=1


I am sorry but I do not like the fact that they are here "illegal"! I am 5th generation American, I have a lot of immigration history in my bloodline.... However I have not found any of them to have been illegal..... I follow the law and have served my country so that our way of life and laws can be up held...

"illegal" pisses me off, I am ok with immigration but please abide by our laws.... I guess i should be happy they are taken the step but not willing to look past the fact that they are illegal.... My $.02

I guess I should stand corrected; they were kids brought into the country illegal.... No choice... I guess


It has me wondering if this is just the "tip of the iceberg" and makes me wonder how many more are hiding illegals?

Holy crap...... I'm with you 10mm.

Quote:

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CHICAGO — Tens of thousands of young illegal immigrants waited excitedly in lines as long as a mile and thronged to information sessions across the country on Wednesday, the first day that a federal immigration agency began accepting applications for deportation deferrals that include permits to work legally.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/...ticleLarge.jpg

---

Don't worry you'll be called a Marxist in a jif because your concerned about our culture, security, and American workers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Don't worry you'll be called a Marxist in a jif because your concerned about our culture, security, and American workers.

---

I am not against immigration or for those that seek a better life. All Americans came here for a reason, I guess just against those who come illegal, stay illegal and don't contribute to our society.....

I guess I should be happy, and hope their not just signing up to get benefits.

Someone chime in and tell me how this helps our country, please!

The decline of the greatest superpower in the history of the world continues. Americans are no longer in control of their own destiny or their own country. Last legitimate American to leave please turn out the lights.

“The City Council has made this investment because we believe that undocumented immigrants have a right to an education and a safe and productive life here in the U.S.,” Speaker Christine C. Quinn said.

I don't remember reading anything in the Constitution granting ANY rights to illegal aliens...err "undocumented immigrants".

For an interesting read regarding how Americans are losing control of our own country (and other countries are losing control of theirs) check out

America Alone - Mark Steyn

And if elected, I'm sure Romney won't appease us by going "oh those visas and deportation deferments? Yeah, they're null and void now... Buh bye!"

At least if I got elected president that's what I'd do! [Beer]

Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is semantically the same as calling a drug dealer an "undocumented pharmaceutical salesman"...[Bang]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented immigrant" is semantically the same as calling a drug dealer an "undocumented pharmaceutical salesman"...[Bang]

---

^^^^[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3] - So drug dealers can now say they are in "un documented Pharmaceutical sales?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollohas

For an interesting read regarding how Americans are losing control of our own country (and other countries are losing control of theirs) check out

America Alone - Mark Steyn

---

Maybe you can give us a summary?

I have no problem with young people that were anchor babies or brought over young stepping forward to become legal.
I do not follow the "sins of the father" mentality.

as long as they get a SS# and follow the requirements for a conditional immigration visa.
yes, this means NO Social service, assistance.

Another step on the path...
[Mad][Bang] [Mad]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jumpstart

The decline of the greatest superpower in the history of the world continues. Americans are no longer in control of their own destiny or their own country. Last legitimate American to leave please turn out the lights.

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Please don't turn off the lights! I'm not ready yet! [ROFL1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...on_legislation

We have certainly gone far off the path our founders intended when it comes to immigration.

Quote:

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There have been a number of Immigration Acts in the United States, but the first restriction on immigration did not occur until 1875. Prior to that point, immigration was distinct from citizenship and naturalization.

---

Somehow the Union survived with a % of foreign-born residents higher than it is now.

Fun fact: before 1906, knowing english was not a requirement of citizenship. I thought that was kind of funny considering how butthurt conservatives get over the issue, one that the Founders and 5 generations after them seemed to think was not worth bothering over.

If conservatives think that they can hide from the world labor markets, they are deluding themselves. Immigration restrictions work to "help America" the same way minimum wage laws and various other regulations do; ie, they hurt America significantly. Again, that isn't economic heresy; go ask any economist of any political bent and he'll tell you.

Edit: Immigration should certainly be distinct from citizenship, as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

Maybe you can give us a summary?

---

I'm only about 1/3rd of the way through. It's all about culture, immigration, population age and being out-bred. Cultures that which largely have contrary beliefs to traditional Americans are out breeding us...by a long shot. And it doesn't take war or major political changes to change a nation...it only takes a particular culture (that doesn't conform to their new country's values) to become 51% of the population.

It has been happening in Europe for a long time (hence the title America Alone) Entire cities are no longer filled with what we would consider traditional Europeans. Partially from immigration, partially from being out-bred.

Not having enough babies also leads to a socialist state because as the population shifts from mostly young to mostly old, more social program are created. Which of course has a profound impact on the economy.

Send them all back to their native countries and lock the border down.

As we need people to apply for jobs, start businesses, etc, they can apply for citizenship, learn english, prove they carry insurance if they own a vehicle, register that vehicle with the state they intend to live and work in, get set up to pay taxes and be put on a 5 year temporary green card. Any felonies and they are gone without a chance to come back.

Any of them have current arrest records...they are gone with no chance to apply. We don't need more worthless trash in our country...we already have enough.

And I come from a background that is both legal immigrants from England and Germany on my moms side and Irish and Native American on my Dads side. 1/8 Cherokee Indian so anyone that doesn't like my comments are more than welcome to F off and leave since my ancestors were here in this land LONG LONG LONG before any of you were.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...on_legislation

We have certainly gone far off the path our founders intended when it comes to immigration.



Somehow the Union survived with a % of foreign-born residents higher than it is now.

Fun fact: before 1906, knowing english was not a requirement of citizenship. I thought that was kind of funny considering how butthurt conservatives get over the issue, one that the Founders and 5 generations after them seemed to think was not worth bothering over.

If conservatives think that they can hide from the world labor markets, they are deluding themselves. Immigration restrictions work to "help America" the same way minimum wage laws and various other regulations do; ie, they hurt America significantly. Again, that isn't economic heresy; go ask any economist of any political bent and he'll tell you.

Edit: Immigration should certainly be distinct from citizenship, as well.

---

I don't know where you're getting your ideas... The founding fathers didn't have an issue with "press 1 for English, 2 for Spanish." I fail to see how undocumented illegal aliens, working jobs illegally (Keyword here, in case you missed it ILLEGAL- IE: Against the fucking law!) and not paying taxes on their wages, plus their employers not paying taxes on these "employees" helps America in any way. I won't repeat what I said in another thread, but I will say see my analogy about 250 workers, 100 job openings. Are you sure you're not a liberal Pancho? You sure do ignore rational arguments that make a lot of sense, and you do it very well. Comparing minimum wage to immigration is a null and void argument. Apples and Oranges.

But sure, let's let everyone who entered this nation illegally just get a free ride. Hey, while we're at it, you want to come over to my friend's house tonight? His wife spent 2 years and who knows how much money getting her legal citizen status to live here when they moved here from Germany. Spit in her face, she'd love it, because that's what this whole immigration bullshit would be doing. Same with everyone else who did it the right, legal way.

Oh, and please, someone remind me, what fucking language is our constitution, bill of rights, and declaration of independence in? Oh yeah, English. Goes without saying on the whole national language thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...on_legislation

We have certainly gone far off the path our founders intended when it comes to immigration.



Somehow the Union survived with a % of foreign-born residents higher than it is now.

Fun fact: before 1906, knowing english was not a requirement of citizenship. I thought that was kind of funny considering how butthurt conservatives get over the issue, one that the Founders and 5 generations after them seemed to think was not worth bothering over.

If conservatives think that they can hide from the world labor markets, they are deluding themselves. Immigration restrictions work to "help America" the same way minimum wage laws and various other regulations do; ie, they hurt America significantly. Again, that isn't economic heresy; go ask any economist of any political bent and he'll tell you.

Edit: Immigration should certainly be distinct from citizenship, as well.

---

Ok I can't take this anymore. The 5 generations after the founding fathers also had a preference for white northern Europeans. Your pie in the sky economic views are what an economic majors dreams are made of. Employers love immigration because it cheapens the cost of labor. Numbers aren't bad but when cheap goods or cheap labor enter a complicated workforce it hurts workers. When the labor market is low it drives wages up because your labor is worth more. People have children, reasonable immigration takes place. Bigger projects and companies grow from bigger numbers, but it is slow and makes progress. These people are economic invaders because the steal jobs from the poorest people then we have to care for both parties through welfare and handouts. They also cause wages to decrease.

Also since not everything comes to economics what of culture? Assimilation is key here my friend. See in past generations people eventually belly up and assimilate. You know why? Geography, the ocean is a barrier where you don't return home. You become part of the land. With our friends south of the border they are sucking money and sending it down south. They do not intend to become Americans. Just as Texans did to mexico so many years ago. They think this is ultimately their land. No it is time for them to go. They don't want to become Americans. They are economic raiders and vampires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sniper7

Send them all back to their native countries and lock the border down.

As we need people to apply for jobs, start businesses, etc, they can apply for citizenship, learn english, prove they carry insurance if they own a vehicle, register that vehicle with the state they intend to live and work in, get set up to pay taxes and be put on a 5 year temporary green card. Any felonies and they are gone without a chance to come back.

Any of them have current arrest records...they are gone with no chance to apply. We don't need more worthless trash in our country...we already have enough.

And I come from a background that is both legal immigrants from England and Germany on my moms side and Irish and Native American on my Dads side. 1/8 Cherokee Indian so anyone that doesn't like my comments are more than welcome to F off and leave since my ancestors were here in this land LONG LONG LONG before any of you were.

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^^^ (2 post above)Sounds like we have similar backgrounds.... I concur!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Ok I can't take this anymore. The 5 generations after the founding fathers also had a preference for white northern Europeans. Your pie in the sky economic views are what an economic majors dreams are made of. Employers love immigration because it cheapens the cost of labor. Numbers aren't bad but when cheap goods or cheap labor enter a complicated workforce it hurts workers. When the labor market is low it drives wages up because your labor is worth more. People have children, reasonable immigration takes place. Bigger projects and companies grow from bigger numbers, but it is slow and makes progress. These people are economic invaders because the steal jobs from the poorest people then we have to care for both parties through welfare and handouts. They also cause wages to decrease.

Also since not everything comes to economics what of culture? Assimilation is key here my friend. See in past generations people eventually belly up and assimilate. You know why? Geography, the ocean is a barrier where you don't return home. You become part of the land. With our friends south of the border they are sucking money and sending it down south. They do not intend to become Americans. Just as Texans did to mexico so many years ago. They think this is ultimately their land. No it is time for them to go. They don't want to become Americans. They are economic raiders and vampires.

---

Don't narrow it to South of the border- Russians, Canadians and others do the same!

Interesting bit of info about the history of the United States:

Quote:

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The United States exists in two forms: The original United States that was in operation until 1860; a collection of sovereign Republics in the union. Under the original Constitution the States controlled the Federal Government; the Federal Government did not control the States and had limited authority.

The original United States has been usurped by a separate and different UNITED STATES formed in 1871, which only controls the District of Columbia and it’s territories, and which is actually a corporation (the UNITED STATES CORPORATION) that acts as our current government. The United States Corporation operates under Corporate/Commercial Law rather than Common/Private Law.

The original Constitution was never removed; it has simply been dormant since 1871. It is still intact to this day. This fact was made clear by Supreme Court Justice Marshall Harlan (Downes v. Bidwell, 182, U.S. 244 1901) by giving the following dissenting opinion: “Two national governments exist; one to be maintained under the Constitution, with all its restrictions; the other to be maintained by Congress outside and Independently of that Instrument.”

The Restore America Plan reclaimed the de jure institutions of government of the 50 State Republics in order to restore Common Law that represents the voice of the people and ends Corporate Law that ignores the voice of the people while operating under Maritime/Admiralty/International Law. This occurred when warrants were delivered to all 50 Governors on March 30, 2010. The Governors refused to return to the de jure Constitutional Republican form of governance. We the People then elected officers and legislators to fill the vacant seats that were abandoned in 1871.

The rewritten 1871 Constitution of the UNITED STATES CORPORATION bypasses the original Constitution for the United States of America, which explains why our Congressmen and Senators don’t abide by it, and the President (CEO) can write Executive Orders to do whatever he/she wants. They are following corporate laws that completely strip sovereigns of their God given unalienable rights. Corporate/Commercial Law is not sovereign (private), as it is an agreement between two or more parties under contract. Common Law (which sovereigns operate under) is not Commercial Law; it is personal and private.

---

- Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition (With Pronunciations)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

Don't narrow it to South of the border- Russians, Canadians and others do the same!

---

Ok Canadians aren't flooding to get down here, and in 30 years your kids will not be speaking Russian. Its not an ethnic thing it is a geography thing. Mexico would be a regional power if they weren't next to us. Reality is what it is. We're being invaded by immigrants that don't want America they want her riches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Ok I can't take this anymore. The 5 generations after the founding fathers also had a preference for white northern Europeans. Your pie in the sky economic views are what an economic majors dreams are made of. Employers love immigration because it cheapens the cost of labor. Numbers aren't bad but when cheap goods or cheap labor enter a complicated workforce it hurts workers. When the labor market is low it drives wages up because your labor is worth more. People have children, reasonable immigration takes place. Bigger projects and companies grow from bigger numbers, but it is slow and makes progress. These people are economic invaders because the steal jobs from the poorest people then we have to care for both parties through welfare and handouts. They also cause wages to decrease.

Also since not everything comes to economics what of culture? Assimilation is key here my friend. See in past generations people eventually belly up and assimilate. You know why? Geography, the ocean is a barrier where you don't return home. You become part of the land. With our friends south of the border they are sucking money and sending it down south. They do not intend to become Americans. Just as Texans did to mexico so many years ago. They think this is ultimately their land. No it is time for them to go. They don't want to become Americans. They are economic raiders and vampires.

---

THIS! +1,000,000! I forgot about that point. Drive anywhere North of I-70 on Federal, I see more Mexican flags than I do American. And on Colfax for about a mile west of I-25- 2/3 signs are in Spanish. Assimilation= not happening here. [Bang]
http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/...S/applause.gif

No offence Pancho, but your Immigration views are well documented Here. I for one disagree with most of what you have to say, that being said, I respect your right to speak your mind. I think however you’re preaching to the wrong choir, and are close to starting a shit storm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

Don't narrow it to South of the border- Russians, Canadians and others do the same!

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Sure, but not by the multi-millions day after day, year after year, decade upon decade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jumpstart

Sure, but not by the multi-millions day after day, year after year, decade upon decade.

---

Don't forget the other part (and how we're not at war because of this is just beyond me):
Armed, uniformed, soldiers from the Mexican Army, escorting border crossing people/drug smugglers. If armed, uniformed soldiers from Turkey started smuggling drugs into Iran (with or without their government's knowledge or support) there would be an international incident. But we just brush it off, even after a few CBP agents get injured and killed. [Mad]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Ok Canadians aren't flooding to get down here, and in 30 years your kids will not be speaking Russian. Its not an ethnic thing it is a geography thing. Mexico would be a regional power if they weren't next to us. Reality is what it is. We're being invaded by immigrants that don't want America they want her riches.

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While 58% of it is the majority you need to state some facts in your argument instead of generalities. I agree Mexico is the biggest influx because it is easy to cross into America but they are all doing it....

Actually in 30 years (actually sooner) it is estimated that they will be speaking Manderin... (That might be a broad generalization, like yours)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201..._131142379.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41371038.../#.UC1g6N1mTa4

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 10mm-man

While 58% of it is the majority you need to state some facts in your argument instead of generalities. I agree Mexico is the biggest influx because it is easy to cross into America but they are all doing it....

Actually in 30 years (actually sooner) it is estimated that they will be speaking Manderin... (That might be a broad generalization, like yours)

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english201..._131142379.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41371038.../#.UC1g6N1mTa4

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If you prefer me to get sources and biblio I will, but sense I'm arguing with Pancho's generalities mine will suffice for now. Also don't blame just Mexico the central Americas are coming in hot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

If you prefer me to get sources and biblio but sense I'm arguing with Pancho's generalities mine will suffice for now.

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Well then you both can be wrong in your facts! But you both should actually start quoting facts......

Either way we have a big F'n problem and the biggest majority is from Mexico agreed.

My wife is Chinese, and it was a fairly large and expensive PITA for her to become a US Citizen, and after being a part of the process I have zero sympathy or tolerance for illegals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Ok I can't take this anymore. The 5 generations after the founding fathers also had a preference for white northern Europeans. Your pie in the sky economic views are what an economic majors dreams are made of. Employers love immigration because it cheapens the cost of labor. Numbers aren't bad but when cheap goods or cheap labor enter a complicated workforce it hurts workers. When the labor market is low it drives wages up because your labor is worth more. People have children, reasonable immigration takes place. Bigger projects and companies grow from bigger numbers, but it is slow and makes progress. These people are economic invaders because the steal jobs from the poorest people then we have to care for both parties through welfare and handouts. They also cause wages to decrease.

Also since not everything comes to economics what of culture? Assimilation is key here my friend. See in past generations people eventually belly up and assimilate. You know why? Geography, the ocean is a barrier where you don't return home. You become part of the land. With our friends south of the border they are sucking money and sending it down south. They do not intend to become Americans. Just as Texans did to mexico so many years ago. They think this is ultimately their land. No it is time for them to go. They don't want to become Americans. They are economic raiders and vampires.

---

Border states have at times majority Mexican nationals, especially towards the beginning. And also no quotas or immigration visas; somehow, the US managed to not be taken over in the 1800s, nor the border states secede from the Union (well, not for that reason, anyway.)

I also suggest you get your economics from places other than Hannity. Like maybe open a book some time. It's been established - across spectrums of economists from liberal to conservative to libertarian - that immigrants are, at worst, net-neutral in terms of economic impact on the US. This isn't pie in the sky stuff, it's the reality.

The ethnic identity of the US has evolved over the years, and the same arguments (stealing our jobs, destroying our culture, ruining our government, etc etc ad infinitum) has been rolled out for every last ethnic group that has come here; Irish, Italians, east euros, Mexicans in the past, asians, you name it. Every last immigrant wave has been the special immigrant wave that will ruin America forever, honest.

A bit of historical perspective may make me a bit cynical, but excuse me if I find it ironic that the same exact arguments against letting mexicans immigrate legally as much as they want are trotted out as been trotted out against every previous immigrant group.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Border states have at times majority Mexican nationals, especially towards the beginning. And also no quotas or immigration visas; somehow, the US managed to not be taken over in the 1800s, nor the border states secede from the Union (well, not for that reason, anyway.)

I also suggest you get your economics from places other than Hannity. Like maybe open a book some time. It's been established - across spectrums of economists from liberal to conservative to libertarian - that immigrants are, at worst, net-neutral in terms of economic impact on the US. This isn't pie in the sky stuff, it's the reality.

The ethnic identity of the US has evolved over the years, and the same arguments (stealing our jobs, destroying our culture, ruining our government, etc etc ad infinitum) has been rolled out for every last ethnic group that has come here; Irish, Italians, east euros, Mexicans in the past, asians, you name it. Every last immigrant wave has been the special immigrant wave that will ruin America forever, honest.

A bit of historical perspective may make me a bit cynical, but excuse me if I find it ironic that the same exact arguments against letting mexicans immigrate legally as much as they want are trotted out as been trotted out against every previous immigrant group.

---

Who is Hannity? Ok buster how about Frederich List, Hamilton, Clay, Smith, or Burke? Once again source the fact that the hispanic immigrants have been coming in for 3+ generations and refuse to assimilate. Geography is still key. They can walk back home, send money back home. They were technically here first, and harbor bitterness at us for it. The majority of them are not learning our customs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

3+ generations and refuse to assimilate.

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Assimilate- I think that is key!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

Who is Hannity? Ok buster how about Frederich List, Hamilton, Clay, Smith, or Burke? Once again source the fact that the hispanic immigrants have been coming in for 3+ generations and refuse to assimilate. Geography is still key. They can walk back home, send money back home. They were technically here first, and harbor bitterness at us for it. The majority of them are not learning our customs.

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I believe the claimant has to provide sources. Let's see some.

Also, your first economist is the father of a (mostly) defunct school of economics based on collectivism and that heavily influenced the batshit economies of fascist states. That isn't super surprising but it is funny.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

I believe the claimant has to provide sources. Let's see some.

Also, your first economist is the father of a defunct school of economics based on collectivism. That isn't super surprising but it is funny.

---

hahahaha ok big guy, you can associate his theories with the American School which built the US into a economic superpower. Is "collectivism" all you've got when referring to the American School of Economic Theory. Sad. Sad.

Also other than your trite responses such as "collectivism" you've provided nothing. You won't respond to anything other than economics. What of culture friend?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Border states have at times majority Mexican nationals, especially towards the beginning. And also no quotas or immigration visas; somehow, the US managed to not be taken over in the 1800s, nor the border states secede from the Union (well, not for that reason, anyway.)

I also suggest you get your economics from places other than Hannity. Like maybe open a book some time. It's been established - across spectrums of economists from liberal to conservative to libertarian - that immigrants are, at worst, net-neutral in terms of economic impact on the US. This isn't pie in the sky stuff, it's the reality.

The ethnic identity of the US has evolved over the years, and the same arguments (stealing our jobs, destroying our culture, ruining our government, etc etc ad infinitum) has been rolled out for every last ethnic group that has come here; Irish, Italians, east euros, Mexicans in the past, asians, you name it. Every last immigrant wave has been the special immigrant wave that will ruin America forever, honest.

A bit of historical perspective may make me a bit cynical, but excuse me if I find it ironic that the same exact arguments against letting mexicans immigrate legally as much as they want are trotted out as been trotted out against every previous immigrant group.

---

Jesus, I don't want to bring the wrath of the mods down, but you really are dumb. I can't hold it in any more.

A few things- in terms of economics the arguments you are citing about immigration are not taking in the massive influx of ILLEGAL immigration, hell, they're not talking about that at all. Illegal immigration is bad for an economy. Look at the strain refugees put on Pakistan in the 1980's after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Oh sorry, too hard of history for you there? Refugees, and aliens do not aid economic growth, immigration, sure, but not unless it's contributory to the nation they are immigrating into- which the illegal kind is not. They are, in fact, making this place worse.

And your comparison to the Italian/Irish/European immigration? Wow... sorry, saying you're dumb is just insulting to dumb people. You're talking about the early 1900s, the start of the industrial era. More workers was a good thing, despite the idea at the time that they were taking all the good jobs. It worked out just fine because we had the model in place for them to thrive here. They became legal citizens and paid their dues on the way to prosperity (with a minor hiccup with the great depression). We have never had a group of people so un-inclined to become part of the whole as we have now. The Italians came here, some of them the most heritage-proud people ever, but still said "I'm an American." What do we see now? "Soy un Mexicano!" We're not asking to remove your ancestral identity, we're asking that you be proud to live here and have the opportunity to make a better life. I've met people from all over, Puerto Rico, Russia, Germany, Canada, Iraq, Iran, all of them immigrated here legally, and they're proud ____-Americans and they all are trying to integrate into our culture without losing their cultural identity. They all spoke English, and what words and phrases they didn't know, they made an honest effort.

I don't hate people based on their culture, color, religion, or gender, but when they come here and refuse to learn the language, Fuck you, get out. When they come here and refuse to follow our laws (est. 2011 more than 40% of Colorado uninsured motorists were estimated to be illegal)- and that includes the way they came in- fuck you, get out.

You comparing this problem to the 1800s? Are you fucking high? This problem is much more recent. They didn't hop the fence by the 10's of thousands per day in 1850. But they sure as hell do now in 2012. [Bang]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

Border states have at times majority Mexican nationals, especially towards the beginning. And also no quotas or immigration visas; somehow, the US managed to not be taken over in the 1800s, nor the border states secede from the Union (well, not for that reason, anyway.)

I also suggest you get your economics from places other than Hannity. Like maybe open a book some time. It's been established - across spectrums of economists from liberal to conservative to libertarian - that immigrants are, at worst, net-neutral in terms of economic impact on the US. This isn't pie in the sky stuff, it's the reality.

The ethnic identity of the US has evolved over the years, and the same arguments (stealing our jobs, destroying our culture, ruining our government, etc etc ad infinitum) has been rolled out for every last ethnic group that has come here; Irish, Italians, east euros, Mexicans in the past, asians, you name it. Every last immigrant wave has been the special immigrant wave that will ruin America forever, honest.

A bit of historical perspective may make me a bit cynical, but excuse me if I find it ironic that the same exact arguments against letting mexicans immigrate legally as much as they want are trotted out as been trotted out against every previous immigrant group.

---

Here are other things to consider for comparisons with immigration from other places and Mexico/Latin America:
1. Sheer volume. If one investigates, comparisions in volume will drop your jaw.
2. Speaking 1 language. European immigrants spoke 40 plus languages (at least)
3. History with Mexico.
4. What is being taught in Mexican schools about Manifest Destiny, etc.
5. 80% of the drugs coming into the US come via Mexico.
6. There isn't 3000 miles of ocean to cross, no physical barriers.
7. Flying Mexican flags in our streets in 2006 when amnesty was being proposed, to intimidate and persuade.
8. Immigration Reform Act of 1986 aka "Never again amnesty" So here we are 20 million illegal aliens later.
9. Unemployment for teens and people in their early 20's is around 24%. Traditionally service jobs. And we are told illegals/immigrants are here to "only pick lettuce".
10. Instant benefits. No else got them. Why do ILLEGAL ALIENS? Illegal aliens are a net loss. It has been proven time and time again. Hell, the kids on the playground know this just from common sense.
11. An legitimate American with only a H.S. degree will use up more benefits than they produce, yet some would have us believe a man with a 5th grade education and his extended illiterate family won't?
12. How about some civil rights for citizens? What about fairness for us and our children as our ethnic majority and culutre also is diminished? You don't think we want what is best for our children? It isn't more illegal aliens.

I am from the border, born and raised. I have heard these same kind of "comparsions" about turning a blind eye to illegal aliens for over 35 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by flan7211

hahahaha ok big guy, you can associate his theories with the American School which built the US into a economic superpower.

Also other than your trite responses such as "collectivism" you've provided nothing. You won't respond to anything other than economics. What of culture friend?

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Free market economics built America into an economic powerhouse, not nationalist bullshit.

Culture changes. Values continue to matter, particularly in the case of rational egoism and free markets. The people who stay and vote are the ones who are most attracted to here and who will adopt those values.

By generation 2, most offspring of immigrants (legal and illegal) are bilingual. Starting with gen 3, significant percentages don't even speak spanish. If you want a proxy for assimilation, there's a half decent one.

The fact is, I think citizenship should be hard to get and residency easy to get. Our legal system provides for that already; let's just use it

Go visit boston and you'll see a ton of IRISH PRIDE and Irish flags. No one goes whining that they're not assimilating. If they like Mexico they can go back to it any time, as you've mentioned; so it seems unlikely that people who just don't like the US would stay long term anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pancho Villa

By generation 2, most offspring of immigrants (legal and illegal) are bilingual. Starting with gen 3, significant percentages don't even speak spanish. If you want a proxy for assimilation, there's a half decent one.

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Where are you getting this? I've seen people who came here, speak 0 English and their children speak very broken English. I'm going to bet that their children will speak very little English. They're coming here and building their own version of a "dome city" where they all gather around each other and have their microcosm of a society. They don't need to speak English to make it in this mini-society... but oh wait, we have to expand, because there are too many of them they need to be employed outside their little mini-society, so what happens? The rest of us have to bend over and appease them by learning their language instead of them learning ours. I know several hispanic families that only speak to their children in Spanish.