List of places no one should be allowed to possess a firearm:

[RMAC757]

LEO's are trained in weapon retention. Most CCW carriers are not. And there is certainly no standard for CCW carriers to be held to as far as retention goes. This is not a Liberal/Conservative thing. When some dad or mom is full on destroying a bag of peanuts, slugging cokes and yelling at their kids on the way to Orlando. It would be easy for Johnny Jihad or anyone else to relieve them of their firearm. I've seen more than a few who were "allowed" make me cringe as I saw how they were printing. It's never gonna happen. And I don't know anybody in my business who wants it to.

unfortunatley the liberals use the same logic. "im not so worried about the LEO (who may have no clue and are still human) who comes to my restaurant, ball game, theater, etc, its the idiot who gets drunk and then kills everyone with his deranged mind and killer gun. and the blood has run in the streets just like the liberals said it would, if concealed carry got approved in more places.

[HBARleatherneck]

the airplane arguement is really stupid anyway. I think we all believe a private company can make the rule against carrying. and Im sure all the airlines would ban carry. now, if they get any government funds. forget it. not that the taxpayers should be paying for any of this crap. be competitive or close shop.

[Aloha_Shooter]

LEO's are trained in weapon retention. Most CCW carriers are not. And there is certainly no standard for CCW carriers to be held to as far as retention goes.

Just how much training in retention do I need when you can't see my weapon and it's snugged under my armpit or down by ... well, anyone reaching in there WILL be noticed and WILL get an elbow in the face (unless she looks really good in a bikini). I really don't want to be on alert all the time, would rather sleep on most of my plane trips so am hardly likely to want to carry even if it's allowed but "retention" is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen against it.

The last time I checked, most of us weren't asking to relax background check or training rules to get a CHP so anyone who WOULD carry concealed on an plane is already part of one of the most law-abiding demographic groups in the nation.

As far as the question goes, I can see barring private concealed carry at places where emotions have a tendency to run high (e.g., courthouses) or people have often wanted to make a political statement (e.g., White House or Capitol building) but I would generally prefer they allowed carry by licensed individuals subject to security check.

[RMAC757]

Just how much training in retention do I need when you can't see my weapon and it's snugged under my armpit or down by ... well, anyone reaching in there WILL be noticed and WILL get an elbow in the face (unless she looks really good in a bikini). I really don't want to be on alert all the time, would rather sleep on most of my plane trips so am hardly likely to want to carry even if it's allowed but "retention" is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen against it.

The last time I checked, most of us weren't asking to relax background check or training rules to get a CHP so anyone who WOULD carry concealed on an plane is already part of one of the most law-abiding demographic groups in the nation.

As far as the question goes, I can see barring private concealed carry at places where emotions have a tendency to run high (e.g., courthouses) or people have often wanted to make a political statement (e.g., White House or Capitol building) but I would generally prefer they allowed carry by licensed individuals subject to security check.

Really....one of the dumbest arguments you've seen on this? Ask a law enforcement officer how much time they spend on weapon retention. All it would take is one careless person carrying and one motivated terrorist, psyco, whatever to seize the moment. Most passengers aren't quite as ninja as yourself. May I ask.....what do you do for a living?

[dwalker460]

May I ask.....what do you do for a living?

I am suddenly more interested in what you do for a living?

[RMAC757]

I am suddenly more interested in what you do for a living?

Airline Captain

[asmo]

I am suddenly more interested in what you do for a living?

RMAC757

Drives the Blue French Bus

[Zundfolge]

Really....one of the dumbest arguments you've seen on this? Ask a law enforcement officer how much time they spend on weapon retention. All it would take is one careless person carrying and one motivated terrorist, psyco, whatever to seize the moment.

And yet most of the stories we see in the news about handguns left in public bathrooms or rifles left on the roofs of vehicles only to slide into traffic or sub-machineguns stolen out of an unsecured vehicle its not "civilians", its not CCWers, its cops.

We really need to get past this ludicrous notion that all (or even most) members of law enforcement are highly trained "high-speed-low-drag-operators" and all "civilians" are idiots that can barely keep from soiling themselves. Most police officers are social workers that happen to carry guns. That's not to diminish what they do, its just the truth. Most of the police officers I've know over the years were competent at their jobs but were LESS CAPABLE with a firearm than most of the "civilians" I've met through firearms forums and at the range (not that I haven't met cops that are VERY capable, but most of them would be capable with a gun whether they were cops or accountants or bartenders).

Either the masses are all Homer Simpsons that need the heavy but benevolent jack boot of the state on their necks, or they're adults capable of self governance. If you think we're all Homer Simpsons then join the gun banners because not only should Homer not be allowed to CCW even in the middle of the woods with nobody for miles, he shouldn't be allowed to touch any gun (or even a sharp knife).

[dwalker460]

And yet most of the stories we see in the news about handguns left in public bathrooms or rifles left on the roofs of vehicles only to slide into traffic or sub-machineguns stolen out of an unsecured vehicle its not "civilians", its not CCWers, its cops.

We really need to get past this ludicrous notion that all (or even most) members of law enforcement are highly trained "high-speed-low-drag-operators" and all "civilians" are idiots that can barely keep from soiling themselves. Most police officers are social workers that happen to carry guns. That's not to diminish what they do, its just the truth. Most of the police officers I've know over the years were competent at their jobs but were LESS CAPABLE with a firearm than most of the "civilians" I've met through firearms forums and at the range (not that I haven't met cops that are VERY capable, but most of them would be capable with a gun whether they were cops or accountants or bartenders).

Either the masses are all Homer Simpsons that need the heavy but benevolent jack boot of the state on their necks, or they're adults capable of self governance. If you think we're all Homer Simpsons then join the gun banners because not only should Homer not be allowed to CCW even in the middle of the woods with nobody for miles, he shouldn't be allowed to touch any gun (or even a sharp knife).

I completely agree, and can only add that while I know several truly awesome cops, I still would not trust my life to them. Personal responsibility includes my health and safety.

[RMAC757]

And yet most of the stories we see in the news about handguns left in public bathrooms or rifles left on the roofs of vehicles only to slide into traffic or sub-machineguns stolen out of an unsecured vehicle its not "civilians", its not CCWers, its cops.

We really need to get past this ludicrous notion that all (or even most) members of law enforcement are highly trained "high-speed-low-drag-operators" and all "civilians" are idiots that can barely keep from soiling themselves. Most police officers are social workers that happen to carry guns. That's not to diminish what they do, its just the truth. Most of the police officers I've know over the years were competent at their jobs but were LESS CAPABLE with a firearm than most of the "civilians" I've met through firearms forums and at the range (not that I haven't met cops that are VERY capable, but most of them would be capable with a gun whether they were cops or accountants or bartenders).

Either the masses are all Homer Simpsons that need the heavy but benevolent jack boot of the state on their necks, or they're adults capable of self governance. If you think we're all Homer Simpsons then join the gun banners because not only should Homer not be allowed to CCW even in the middle of the woods with nobody for miles, he shouldn't be allowed to touch any gun (or even a sharp knife).

I think your trying to create an argument with me that doesn't exist. To be honest I'm not even sure what point your trying to make with Homer Simpson analogy. Yes, there are many, many well trained civilians and equally as many poorly trained LEO's. Your not seeing the big picture. This is about creating a standard for the lowest common denominator, not persecuting well trained, law abiding citizens. Risking the chance of ND's, poorly secured weapons, argument/fights, whatever aboard the plane with your average Joe who took his CCW on the internet a couple weeks earlier isn't worth it. There are a few of us on this board that see what happens aboard aircraft on daily basis. Do you have any idea what happens when we get stuck for a couple hours off the gate? People loose their shit.....every time.