Help me tear apart this frightening video.

[275RLTW]

I believe I got the point... and I quote:
"If you think "Competency, proficiency, and common sense should be enough," then you clearly don't know what we are talking about. For a static range that is a good start. For anything involving more dynamic movements, much more is needed, especially experience."
No matter how many times one goes through a shoot house it will never be enough without actual experience. At least that's what I take away from your meaning, and remember kids, perception is reality.

It takes more than a few days, or years even, to learn those principles. Anyone who thinks they have "mastered" or are experts in that are often proven wrong when a fatal mistake is made. There are very few "experts" in that arena and none of them consider themselves such.

[Ronin13]

It takes more than a few days, or years even, to learn those principles. Anyone who thinks they have "mastered" or are experts in that are often proven wrong when a fatal mistake is made. There are very few "experts" in that arena and none of them consider themselves such.

I didn't say that one would be come an expert in a few days or even years- I have only done a few instances of it in a training scenario and I wouldn't consider myself proficient enough to train the subject, but who's to say one day I might become proficient enough to train, even though I've never kicked a door down with real bad guys on the other side?

[NCPatrolAR]

Based off the silence, I'll take it that " 2 years in a leg unit" comment was directed at someone else in the thread

[strm_trpr]

This thread is getting good.

[Mick-Boy]

ETA: My question for Mick- I've done CQB training, I've done breach training, I've done PSD training (to include driving, formations, and close protection), but never actually done the actual job.... Let's say I go out and take a bunch of CQB courses, and decide that I'm competent enough on the subject, and can preform adequately. But since I've never actually done it professionally in a real-life environment (training only, mind you) I'll never be qualified to teach it? Just clarify that for me please. Because by that logic, I've never been in a firefight, yet I have spent countless hours training people on the M4/M16 platform for combat scenarios, trained our unit officers on the M9 combat pistol course, and taught PSD operations, but since I have no real world applications I'm not qualified, right?

How many weekend, civilian classes would I have to take before you'd take me seriously as a military intel guy? No deployments. No MOS school. Just paid out of pocket training. How many would it take?

To answer your question; From my perspective, you'd be veering dangerously close to poser territory as soon as you started trying to charge people a fee to learn from you as some sort of Subject Matter Expert on combat operations/CQB/PSD/etc. if you haven't actually *DONE* that for a living.

I posted this in post #138 of this thread

To properly instruct someone in an advanced skill like CQB, you need to be a subject matter expert (with the depth of experience that implies) and be able to deconstruct everything to its most basic components.

Generally that means that the instructor has received formal instruction in CQB operations at a MIL or LEO unit, trained for and conducted CQB operations and finally instructed students in CQB within the framework of a unit that has established and successful SOPs.

There is a difference between someone who is teaching in a Mil/LEO setting because that's one of their assigned tasks and a man who is marketing himself as such an SME that people should pay to train with them.

[275RLTW]

Based off the silence, I'll take it that " 2 years in a leg unit" comment was directed at someone else in the thread

Opps. I missed it. No, it was at you. Yes I know you were in more than 2 years but a basic leg 11B is nothing to get all excited about these days. I know you're an law enforcement officer too (so was dickbag from Gunsmoke). With your busy training schedule, how do you find the time to do all these high risk warrants? We know Kelly invited you over to bail him out of his hole. Anyone that endorses someone not qualified to teach and run a live fire, is not someone or an organization I will support not to mention the loss of credibility.

[MrPrena]

Any sectors and/or industries will have little to no experience as an expert.
Some of them still do good job teaching. Some of them do shitty.
Some of the "Expert" who has tons of experience does shitty job even with years of experience.

PGA tour player may have tons of experience, but might be shitty as PGA instructor.
I've seen a guy who has massive amount of experience in telecommunication as a(n) officer/executive, but cannot teach the damn thing at a grad level.
I've seen an intellectual property and patent attorney who has great amount of experience there, but has no experience in labor law do an excellent job teaching.

How about teachers? Tons of experience in Electrical engineering is teaching an AP Physics C classes in high school. He has absolute no experience in some physics labs. However, he was a great instructor for highschool. He is a "professional" teacher.

I don't think some of these instructor are teaching some crazy ass extraction nor how to jump off of 90,000ft space ship to sea level.
NOW, if an average joe instructor claims that he took out 5 nuclear submarines with a single shot from his carbine, he needs his head checked out.

[hurley842002]

Any sectors and/or industries will have little to no experience as an expert.
Some of them still do good job teaching. Some of them do shitty.
Some of the "Expert" who has tons of experience does shitty job even with years of experience.

PGA tour player may have tons of experience, but might be shitty as PGA instructor.
I've seen a guy who has massive amount of experience in telecommunication as a(n) officer/executive, but cannot teach the damn thing at a grad level.
I've seen an intellectual property and patent attorney who has great amount of experience there, but has no experience in labor law do an excellent job teaching.

How about teachers? Tons of experience in Electrical engineering is teaching an AP Physics C classes in high school. He has absolute no experience in some physics labs. However, he was a great instructor for highschool. He is a "professional" teacher.

I don't think some of these instructor are teaching some crazy ass extraction nor how to jump off of 90,000ft space ship to sea level.
NOW, if an average joe instructor claims that he took out 5 nuclear submarines with a single shot from his carbine, he needs his head checked out.

Good post!

[Irving]

It seems like part of the importance of first hand experience is that some of those experiences just can't be taught in a class room.

[Ronin13]

How many weekend, civilian classes would I have to take before you'd take me seriously as a military intel guy? No deployments. No MOS school. Just paid out of pocket training. How many would it take?

To answer your question; From my perspective, you'd be veering dangerously close to poser territory as soon as you started trying to charge people a fee to learn from you as some sort of Subject Matter Expert on combat operations/CQB/PSD/etc. if you haven't actually *DONE* that for a living.

I posted this in post #138 of this thread



There is a difference between someone who is teaching in a Mil/LEO setting because that's one of their assigned tasks and a man who is marketing himself as such an SME that people should pay to train with them.

Oh you're comparing apples to oranges? If you had just said Intel guy then I'd probably ask if you used the same systems, TTPs, and operational areas as I, then it wouldn't matter. I would compare that to "Would you trust a USMC intelligence officer as much as your fellow Army? Different training and all?" Yes, yes I would. Or how about CIA? Yep! Terrible example, because I can get firearms training almost anywhere and depending on the instructor, you can get good training anywhere. Military specific training can only be offered by military- or government. However, things like CQB (which are not just done by military but also can be performed by LE, PMCs, etc.) can be trained outside the military and you need not be a combat vet to be a subject matter expert. I would consider one of the instructors who taught me how to shoot the M16 (not a combat vet, surprisingly enough) a subject matter expert- he had qualified expert every single time for 17 years straight, worked with the rifle in all manner of training scenarios, and yet not a single deployment between 1989 and 2006- not to mention could take the thing apart and put it back together perfectly with very little hassle, tell you everything you wanted to know from maximum effective range, to muzzle velocity with GI ball 5.56 ammo. I on the other hand do not tell people I'm an SME unless I actually am (and to be honest, I really don't consider myself an SME in ANYTHING).