DOMA/Prop 8 decisions

[SA Friday]

When I was interviewed for my first clearance in '87, there were more questions about homosexuality than anything else.
They are statistically less mentally stable, and more easily coerced/blackmailed than normal people.

Well, having done at least a paperwork ton worth of backgrounds for top secret clearances for the Air Force in my time, I can tell you that is completely twisted...

Homosexuality was such an issue because the military made it one, pure plain and simple. Remove the stigma and repercussions of being gay and all these questions don't mean squat. The blackmail leverage was purely self inflicted for the sake of religious beliefs and big burley men afraid some gay man is going to look as his vienna sausage in the shower.

Blackmail for infidelity is the same problem, completely self inflicted. Infidelity is simply not prosecuted under normal circumstances, certainly not in cases where blackmail for classified information is occurring. I can get an immunity letter for this so fast it will break the sound barrier. Hmmm, do I go after the spy or do I go after the guy who had an affair? Man, that'a s tough one. Can't go after both, that pesky self-incriminating thing comes into play... Ya, ok lets go get the spy.

By the way, unless you can cough up some very credible psychological paper indicating homosexuals are mentally unstable more often than heterosexuals, you are simply full of shit. Seriously, this almost sounds like you took a 50's anti-black pamphlet and crossed out black and wrote homo in it's place.

[Madeinhb]

Read the last sentence... he says it's an issue with acceptance, either by societal standards or being ostracized by their family. Either way, the correlations are undeniable. I forsee, in terms of the military- because been there, done that, served with gays, both male and female- this is something that won't end suddenly just because DADT is repealed, it will take years, especially with the machismo mentality of the military. It's perhaps 10x more of a hostile environment for gays than the rest of society...

Yes he did say that, but he posted in bold about depression and suicide as a mental disorder. Depression and suicide doesn't come from being gay. That was my point

[davsel]

OK, I'll spell it out for the non-critical thinkers.

It does not matter the cause of the depression or substance abuse; whether it be from non-acceptance by society, guilt, or just plain hating their life. The fact remains that homosexuals, per-capita, suffer from these mental instabilities to a greater degree than normal people.

You may not agree with their "plight," but your opinion does not change this fact.

Yes, the reason security clearance questions contained a lot of questions about homosexuality in the late '80s is because at that time, "don't ask, don't tell" was not yet in effect. Active duty homosexuals were in the closet and blackmail provided a viable opportunity to turn them (not rocket surgery here). There were also many questions dealing with prostitution, and later the focus seems to have switched to foreign relationships. The only reason they stopped asking about homosexual activity is due to the current gay agenda that has taken over all levels of government making it unacceptable to ask.

Try looking up murder cases involving homosexuals (males especially). There tends to be a more violent aspect to them that is common knowledge among homicide detectives. They are not normal/natural, quite often do not think or behave in a normal/natural manner, and no matter how much that upsets your tender sensibilities, it does not change the facts. No matter how much you or I wish it was different, it simply is not, and never will be.

It does not matter how many judges "rule" that there is no difference between homosexual and normal marriages/families/child rearing/... it simply does not make it so. No matter how many poles are taken by gay activist organizations, it does not make it so.

The sooner you accept the facts, the quicker we may get this country back on the right track. However, I'm afraid it is sadly too late. History repeats itself. Welcome to Sodom, Gomorrah, Egypt, Greece, Rome, America.

[asmo]

As I have said more times that I can count... Individual liberty means just that. You are either for adults making adult decisions and living with the consequences within their own lives or you are for someone else controlling aspects of your life that bear no consequence to them.

To quote someone who was very anti-gay, but VERY individual liberty: "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."

You cannot be for individual liberty on one hand yet try to enforce your limited view and morals on others -- unless you are a hypocrite. There is no other way.

In other words - some dudes like to have sex with other dudes. Deal with it. What goes on in their bedrooms doesn't affect you in any way so why the fuck should you care -- unless you are jealous or want to be part of the party..

[davsel]

As I have said more times that I can count... Individual liberty means just that. You are either for adults making adult decisions and living with the consequences within their own lives or you are for someone else controlling aspects of your life that bear no consequence to them.

To quote someone who was very anti-gay, but VERY individual liberty: "The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire."

You cannot be for individual liberty on one hand yet try to enforce your limited view and morals on others -- unless you are a hypocrite. There is no other way.

In other words - some dudes like to have sex with other dudes. Deal with it. What goes on in their bedrooms doesn't affect you in any way so why the fuck should you care -- unless you are jealous or want to be part of the party..

It appears you are suggesting that anyone who believes in liberty should not be prosecuting anyone for murder, rape, theft, bestiality, incest, etc.

Yes, society enforces morals. It's called CIVILIZATION.

Your morals do not align with mine. That is not a problem for me. I know where I derive mine, and have confidence in their validity. YMMV

[jhood001]

It appears you are suggesting that anyone who believes in liberty should not be prosecuting anyone for murder, rape, theft, bestiality, incest, etc.

Your shit for brains argument presented cases that all included force and not consent.

Do you know what 'liberty' means?


I didn't think so.

[jhood001]

Your morals do not align with mine. That is not a problem for me. I know where I derive mine, and have confidence in their validity. YMMV

And while I'm at it:

Do your morals, that I assume come from some divine instruction, include the right to control and rule over any man other than yourself? Yeah, mileage will vary for those of us that can extend the freedoms we believe in for ourselves to others... Not matter how much we disagree with them.

[asmo]

Do you know what 'liberty' means?

Jhood001 your next beer is on me.

For davesel, who believes that liberty is everyone believing what he thinks is correct (which is absolutely no different from utter oppression).

lib·er·ty

/ˈlibərtē/
Noun

1. The state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life.

[asmo]

One thing, for anyone who is truly thinks they are pro-liberty but against recognized homosexuality (or anything else), you REALLY need to read Jefferson. Deeply and faithfully read what some dead guys in the 1700's wrote - it is the concentration and distillation of centuries of philosophical and religious writings.

[davsel]

Your shit for brains argument presented cases that all included force and not consent.

Do you know what 'liberty' means?


I didn't think so.

Forgive me, I thought you could expand on the theme through my use of "etc."
Let's try prostitution, bigamy, drug possession, AND ALL OTHER NON-FORCEFUL OR NON-CONSENSUAL STATUTES PRESENT THROUGHOUT HISTORY.