ZIMMERMAN TRIAL LIVE LINK

[Great-Kazoo]

What girl?

the cracker ass guy following him

[cofi]

What girl?

As seen in the movie precious

[bellavite1]

As seen in the movie precious

Yeah, Precious and Diamond (her actual nick name).
Do these people own a mirror?

[tmckay2]

im not dismissing any of that. it doesn't excuse his actions. this is the main lesson for all of us that carry need to learn. we think we are somehow justified but in most cases when you enter a situation that results in you having to pull your sidearm it generally does not end well. break ins suck. does it mean you confront a person that isn't doing anything wrong? stand your ground law works IF YOU AREN'T THE ONE ENGAGING. again, the point here is that while trayvon martin might have been a first degree punk, at the time he wasn't actively doing anything wrong and zimmerman getting out of his car was a huge mistake. even if hes a super nice guy and trayvon is a deadbeat wanna be thug, fact is he could have avoided the confrontation and he didn't. when you are the one carrying that is of utmost importance.

ive even seen a lot of people thump their chests about their "cool" carry stories where they almost pulled it out, they flashed it to somebody to scare them, and whatever else and rarely do i hear the people say they were extremely polite and very kindly tried to avoid confrontation. usually, whether they are BS stories or not, it ends up being the storyteller trying to be a bad ass and either raising the tension or at least not actively diffusing it, and then they think they are cool because they almost pulled their carry? some people apparently need to go back to training. carrying should not be taken lightly at all and short of being actively attacked of no fault of your own or another person being beaten to death, it should not even be considered to be pulled.

i realize cops can be knuckleheads and probably ignored him a lot and he was annoyed by that, but short of martin attacking someone there is nothing zimmerman should have done. a neighborhood watch is just that, a WATCH. he saw something suspicious, he reported it. if they are sending a patrol car and he wants to keep an eye on martin, fine. if not, watch him until you see him actually do something. doesn't matter if hes goading you or daring you to get out of your car or anything. you are the one carrying, you have the responsibility.

again, zimmerman seems like a fine guy and i hate to see it happen to him. trayvon seemed like a douche. i knew a guy that was super nice but got in a bar fight, it wasn't even he who started it, but one punch and the guy hit the table on the way down and died. he spent 8 years in prison. best to avoid situations in any way possible. you never know how things will go bad and you can never go back. sometimes you need to look like the wuss in order to avoid the conflict.

I agree but you also are dismissing his background and his position. Him and his wife had been attacked by dogs. That was the reason they got the permits in the first place. He was the community watchdog and I believe appointed by the HOA. Several breakins in the area had occurred. He had obviously called the cops before. I would like to hear the details on those calls and if they were bogus or if arrests were made, if they were all racially driven or what.

Florida has a stand your ground law as well.

I do think the circumstances that we have heard about would not warrant getting out of the vehicle but I wasn't there.

I just watched the news highlights on the star witness who was on the phone with martin. It sure seemed to only help the defense in my opinion.

[BigDee]

The only reason this went to trial is because the DA and chief of police knew that if they didn't charge him they would spend ungodly amounts of money fighting civil suits filed by every civil rights organization known to man for the I foreseeable future, not to mention the political ramifications to their careers.

Zimmerman is nothing more than a peace offering (some may say sacrifice) to the civil rights groups.

[RblDiver]

ive even seen a lot of people thump their chests about their "cool" carry stories where they almost pulled it out, they flashed it to somebody to scare them, and whatever else and rarely do i hear the people say they were extremely polite and very kindly tried to avoid confrontation. usually, whether they are BS stories or not, it ends up being the storyteller trying to be a bad ass and either raising the tension or at least not actively diffusing it, and then they think they are cool because they almost pulled their carry? some people apparently need to go back to training. carrying should not be taken lightly at all and short of being actively attacked of no fault of your own or another person being beaten to death, it should not even be considered to be pulled.

Part of the point of carrying is deterrence. I'm not saying people should be "flashing their piece," but if it deterred someone from engaging in stronger action then it can be a good thing. Being polite is all well and good, but remember, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

[tmckay2]

The only reason this went to trial is because the DA and chief of police knew that if they didn't charge him they would spend ungodly amounts of money fighting civil suits filed by every civil rights organization known to man for the I foreseeable future, not to mention the political ramifications to their careers.

Zimmerman is nothing more than a peace offering (some may say sacrifice) to the civil rights groups.

i wouldn't say its that simple. i am the most annoyed person on this board with "racism!" accusations, it drives me nuts, but zimmerman, by all accounts (even his own in my opinion), started the confrontation by exiting his vehicle. that certainly doesn't mean he should be found guilty of murder as i do believe his story of how things went down, but he does deserve to go to trial. with no REAL witnesses, no weapon on trayvon, and zimmerman with a pistol, you pretty much have to take that to trial. i can actually understand the black community thinking race played a part if they don't even charge him, i mean there is certainly enough evidence to at least charge him with some sort of negligence.

i don't think it was racially motivated and i don't think zimmerman is a bad guy, but i think the white/hispanic community has to try to look at this as objectively as possible if we expect the black community to look at it as objectively as possible. right now you got the black community saying hes absolutely, no doubt about it guilty of murder and the white community saying he is absolutely, no doubt about it innocent of all charges. now you can't tell me both sides aren't using race as their basis because there is very little evidence and hardly any witnesses. no one really knows anything, and trayvon is dead so we only have one guy's story. to me, i think it is fair to find him innocent of murder, i don't think he went there in any way hoping to or trying to kill trayvon. but i do think he is guilty of something, how you want to phrase it or term it is up to the lawyers, but his actions weren't necessary and should have been avoided.

we are all gun owners and all respect the right to defend oneself and we like to defend our own. but we need to be honest and realistic when one of our own does something wrong, and in this case i think it is pretty obvious zimmerman made some mistakes. we shouldn't burn him at the stake but these mistakes warrant some form of punishment. trayvon took part in this too, but right or wrong he already received his punishment and it was pretty severe.

[Ronin13]

According to records, documents, and Zimmerman's testimony- a lot of you are getting the narrative wrong. Sniper7 is not entirely accurate as to why they got permits- Zimmerman's own words were to the effect of a recent home invasion in their neighborhood led them to get their permits so they could protect themselves. tmckay2- you also make a very big assumption in saying Martin probably didn't even fight with Zimmerman. I invite you to watch the Hannity interview with Zimmerman (it's on YouTube), do you really think if the story he tells to Sean suddenly becomes different from his testimony to the detectives investigating that they would discredit him and more easily find him guilty? They'd uncover that in court and he's screwed. So either he tells the truth or tells the exact same narrative to Hannity, the detectives, AND in court. I have no reason to not believe GZ, I can give him the benefit of the doubt since the local CLEO deemed him okay to give a concealed carry permit. Go look at the narrative described to police- here's what he says happened (and again, he said this on camera with his attorney present so it could very well be the truth):
He spotted TM walking in the rain, casually. Something didn't sit right with him, so he called the PD non-emergency line. He continued to keep visual contact with TM as he spoke to the dispatcher. He parked, got out, walked in the same direction as TM until he reached his street, where he stopped following TM and went to give the dispatcher an exact location for a police unit to meet him. He hung up. Looked up and was face to face with TM. TM asked (approx.): "What's your f***ing problem?" GZ responded: "I don't have a problem," while trying to reach for his phone. He looks up again and is struck in the face by TM. Somehow GZ is forced to the ground with TM on top of him striking him in the face and slamming his head into the concrete. GZ attempts to get onto the grass nearby so his head isn't further injured. All the while TM is cursing and threatening GZ. TM attempts to strangle and silence GZ as GZ calls for help. During the struggle GZ's shirt comes up revealing his gun. TM says "You're going to die tonight." At this point GZ is in fear for his life and struggles to get the gun. He fires. TM says "You got me." GZ is approached by a neighbor. Police arrive. TM dies.
That's the narrative GZ told... Take it however you want, but I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, as I have no reason not to. And there is no other witness testimony.

Needless to say- Martin would be alive today had he not hit Zimmerman. Plain and simple. If you doubt Zimmerman was in a physical altercation you obviously missed the aftermath pictures showing bruising and lacerations to his face and head.

[tmckay2]

Part of the point of carrying is deterrence. I'm not saying people should be "flashing their piece," but if it deterred someone from engaging in stronger action then it can be a good thing. Being polite is all well and good, but remember, "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

while that is true, 99% of the time you can diffuse small time punks talking trash by simply walking away or playing the wuss. you don't need to stick out your chest because you are carrying and assume he isn't. i would never show someone my pistol just to show them and hope it scares them. if i am showing it it is because my life is in danger and i am pulling it. carrying shouldn't be for small time fights and verbal abuse situations, it should be for life threatening situations only. most of the stories people tell on here in some idiot just talking and maybe at times approaching them. most of the time if you simply apologize for whatever happened and tell them you meant no disrespect or offense, that would end it. most of the stories involve people acting like a bad ass and not backing down, and why? because they have a gun and think they are a tough guy? diffuse the situation at all times, if the guy pulls out a weapon and approaches then fine. if not, keep it hidden.

[tmckay2]

i said he DID fight with zimmerman, thats why he deserves equal share of the blame.

According to records, documents, and Zimmerman's testimony- a lot of you are getting the narrative wrong. Sniper7 is not entirely accurate as to why they got permits- Zimmerman's own words were to the effect of a recent home invasion in their neighborhood led them to get their permits so they could protect themselves. tmckay2- you also make a very big assumption in saying Martin probably didn't even fight with Zimmerman. I invite you to watch the Hannity interview with Zimmerman (it's on YouTube), do you really think if the story he tells to Sean suddenly becomes different from his testimony to the detectives investigating that they would discredit him and more easily find him guilty? They'd uncover that in court and he's screwed. So either he tells the truth or tells the exact same narrative to Hannity, the detectives, AND in court. I have no reason to not believe GZ, I can give him the benefit of the doubt since the local CLEO deemed him okay to give a concealed carry permit. Go look at the narrative described to police- here's what he says happened (and again, he said this on camera with his attorney present so it could very well be the truth):
He spotted TM walking in the rain, casually. Something didn't sit right with him, so he called the PD non-emergency line. He continued to keep visual contact with TM as he spoke to the dispatcher. He parked, got out, walked in the same direction as TM until he reached his street, where he stopped following TM and went to give the dispatcher an exact location for a police unit to meet him. He hung up. Looked up and was face to face with TM. TM asked (approx.): "What's your f***ing problem?" GZ responded: "I don't have a problem," while trying to reach for his phone. He looks up again and is struck in the face by TM. Somehow GZ is forced to the ground with TM on top of him striking him in the face and slamming his head into the concrete. GZ attempts to get onto the grass nearby so his head isn't further injured. All the while TM is cursing and threatening GZ. TM attempts to strangle and silence GZ as GZ calls for help. During the struggle GZ's shirt comes up revealing his gun. TM says "You're going to die tonight." At this point GZ is in fear for his life and struggles to get the gun. He fires. TM says "You got me." GZ is approached by a neighbor. Police arrive. TM dies.
That's the narrative GZ told... Take it however you want, but I'm somewhat inclined to believe him, as I have no reason not to. And there is no other witness testimony.