The Ant and the Grasshopper

[Gman]

...and the wealth was spread around;
The Microsoft Millionaires Come of Age

From 1986 to 1996, Microsoft's stock soared more than a hundredfold as the company's Windows operating system and Office applications dominated the PC industry. That explosive climb made millionaires of employees who had accepted options as a substantial part of their compensation for 60-hour workweeks fueled by a diet of Twinkies, Coca-Cola and marshmallow Peeps. The sudden riches led many to refer to themselves as "lottery winners."

"While the exact number is not known, it is reasonable to assume that there were approximately 10,000 Microsoft millionaires created by the year 2000," said Richard S. Conway Jr., a Seattle economist whom Microsoft hired to study its impact on Washington State. "The wealth that has come to this area is staggering."

Hound, you're off the mark with the axe you're grinding.

[hollohas]

Yes they should redistribute the fruits to EVERYBODY that was part of that success not hoard it at the top..

And how should they do that? Equally to all? Call me crazy, I thought the paycheck received by an employee was their compensation for being part of a company's success...

And again, the main point of "ants vs grasshoppers" is one regarding personal responsibility and work ethic. It is about some people being lazy and demanding/being given the same benefits as those who work hard.

[Skip]

No what I am saying is that not all gov assistance is bad and not all captialism is good. As far as Gates how many industries were crushed by that monopoly. How many jobs lost to consolidate under the M$ umbrella. I lived watching them either buy you out or crush you with lawyers while they STOLE your idea. How many layoffs do we see as these mega mergers continue to kill competition. The constant worshipping at the alter of unregulated capitalism get us monopoly's that actually are the antithesis of true capitalism. Meanwhile we keep taking away assitance from those working 3 and 4 jobs to support their family castigating them as welfare sycophants. Some of the reply's here are just parroting the ultra right and are as bad as the ultra left. People serving our country are not Grasshoppers nor are people like my buddy in the press for taking government assistance. People like Bill Gates start off as the eptiomy of the American dream and then warp it into a self privledged horror story that affect and destroy the middle class by building monopoly's. Greed is not good and was the cause of the Great Depression and the Great Recession. I am not comparing Apples and Oranges I am pointing to the real Grasshoppers. Those that think because the have money they deserve more votes than the average man, those that don't pay what a person is worth, those that think the shareholders are more important than the workers that REALLY built the company that makes them so much money, those that think merging companies or laying off people just to get a quarterly spike is some how American. There is a class battle and unfortunatly many have been suckered into thinking they are on top of the pile when in fact they are on the bottom. BTW... Both the left and the right have their own way of continuing this race to the bottom. It is not all one sides fault.

I love this revisionist history... You do realize that free enterprise (now called "Capitalism") was what made this country great? Without a free market economy there would be no America and no pompous asshole President to tell us what we did/didn't build (ironic, yes?).

Keep in mind every time government intervenes to provide "assistance" they must take from someone else in order to provide that "assistance." (Using quotes because keeping people poor and dependent isn't really assistance) Government cannot create value/wealth they can only consume the value and wealth created in the private economy. And so they must literally put a gun to your neighbor's head to "even the playing field."

What that looks like at the street level is the middle class getting soaked. They are the ones who are marginally successful yet lack the ability to redistribute their tax burden on to others. And, unlike the Grasshoppers, April 15th isn't a payday for us. We must work and yet are denied the full benefit of our labor.

Meanwhile, the people who champion these ideas are getting insanely rich. You hate Gates? There is no end to the line of filthy rich collectivists telling us we need to sacrifice for the greater good. But instead you hate the people who live within their means and want to keep their paycheck? Which is actually their labor! And denying a man his labor makes him.... A SLAVE!

You are actually cheering your own enslavement. And you have every right to do so. But you have ZERO right to do that to me or my children.

[Hound]

And how should they do that? Equally to all? Call me crazy, I thought the paycheck received by an employee was their compensation for being part of a company's success...

And again, the main point of "ants vs grasshoppers" is one regarding personal responsibility and work ethic. It is about some people being lazy and demanding/being given the same benefits as those who work hard.

When paychecks are kept low by lowballing pay that is not sharing in the success of the company and is not adequate compensation. My stories are talking about those with personel responsibility and great work ethic having money taken out of their hands not by the government but by those at the top of the corporate ladder. As for those being lazy vs those working hard... That is were the story started with one guy busting his ass driving all over 4 states to get peanuts while the other guy (that did nothing all day) got paid more in a day than the one busting his ass gets in a full quarter. That is what I call crazy.

[Hound]

I love this revisionist history... You do realize that free enterprise (now called "Capitalism") was what made this country great? Without a free market economy there would be no America and no pompous asshole President to tell us what we did/didn't build (ironic, yes?).

There is no revisionist history here. Free enterprise does not include monopoly's. Just look to the Robber barons and see the eventual end to what you espouse. Government does not have all the answers but niether does unregulated free enterprise/capitalism. There HAS to be a balance. Too much from either side hurts the middle class.

Keep in mind every time government intervenes to provide "assistance" they must take from someone else in order to provide that "assistance." (Using quotes because keeping people poor and dependent isn't really assistance) Government cannot create value/wealth they can only consume the value and wealth created in the private economy. And so they must literally put a gun to your neighbor's head to "even the playing field."

By the same token capitalism can only create wealth it does not distribute it. Yes they create jobs but at the same time only to maximize their own profits. This is not for the common good but for the few at the top. Workers/commoners are paid as little as possible to maintain a workforce. They are then told to be glad they even have a job. The majority of people do not see the benefit of their labor their Lords do. When the balance of wealth is tipped too far to the top 1% is when we see recessions and depressions because the economic pump runs dry due to too much concentration of wealth.

What that looks like at the street level is the middle class getting soaked. They are the ones who are marginally successful yet lack the ability to redistribute their tax burden on to others. And, unlike the Grasshoppers, April 15th isn't a payday for us. We must work and yet are denied the full benefit of our labor.

Here we agree. The poor don't pay taxes because they don't have enough to tax. The rich don't pay taxes because they get the laws to provide them loopholes. Rommney lost because he admitted this to the commoners. He said straight out that he thought he was entiltled to millions simply because he was wealthy and the rigged laws say this is OK. That leaves the shrinking middle class to bare the burden of both sides. So why again is it a bad thing for those with more to pay more. Like I said with the 91% taxes, the government did not actually get the money. It forced the top to redistribute it themselves (through good paying jobs) thus creating a large portion of the middle class out of those that came back from WWII.

Meanwhile, the people who champion these ideas are getting insanely rich. You hate Gates? There is no end to the line of filthy rich collectivists telling us we need to sacrifice for the greater good. But instead you hate the people who live within their means and want to keep their paycheck? Which is actually their labor! And denying a man his labor makes him.... A SLAVE

'They' live not within their means... they live off our means. My buddy on the presses does his best to live within his means and will not retire because he was never paid what his labor was worth. Their is NOTHING ANY of us could do in our lifetime that could be worth a Billion dollars. Esinhower saved our country and was not worth that much. Why? Because it was a team of people's labors that created that won the war and/or created the wealth but only a few who benefit from that wealth. You defend the guy doing nothing and getting 10K in a day while the guy busting his ass will NEVER retire and wonder who is a slave?

You are actually cheering your own enslavement. And you have every right to do so. But you have ZERO right to do that to me or my children.

Actually I am pointing out how YOU are setting up your own children for enslavement (unless you really are in that top 1%, which then makes a lot of your statements make a lot more sense) and saying you have ZERO right to chain my kid to yours.

[sabot_round]

Because their population has been nurtured by gov.

But if these grasshoppers are so incompetent as not to be able (if we are to believe their need) to feed themselves, how can they be a threat? They are only a threat to the ants because the ants allow it foolishly thinking that they will be able to keep enough for themselves.

The grasshopper problem would resolve itself if the ants would cut them off. They would either have to behave more like ants or face starvation.

Yes, the morality here would be debated. But is it more just that everyone starve?

You get no argument from me. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

[Hound]

...and the wealth was spread around;
The Microsoft Millionaires Come of Age



Hound, you're off the mark with the axe you're grinding.

ya, I am remembering all of the small startups they crushed, becuase of their size and market share. I am wondering if that 10k number of millionaires could not have been multipled by the number of companies they crushed? I am thinking about one of the last companies standing that outlasted most of the others and when it was on the ropes and about to declare bankruptcy had to have M$ bail it out. Now you might say that was M$ being benevolent, except for the fact that the only reason they did it was that the bad ol' Government was going to do to M$ what it did to MaBell. You may have heard of it... Apple. How many millionaries have come out of that company. How many innovations. How much have we benefited from that competition and true capitalism. Speaking of MaBell, how many millionaires have been created when that monopoly was broken up and we could all pick who had our phone business. I am sure many of you remember paying your right arm to call across the other side of a city where now, because of regulated capitalism, we can call across the world for the same price of penny's.


Really not feeling too off the mark here.

[Hound]

And PS..that bad guy Bill Gates...why don't you check out his foundation before you continue to say how greedy he is.

Already covered that. I don't really think we should have charity by those who hoarded the money to begin with as benefactors be the model for a free America. That would be an .......... aristocracy. I would rather have those that work hard for their money get paid for that work in the first place so they can pay for their own kids college instead of having to go to the Gates building XYZ on the Gates scholorship. It just seems to me a better way for people to be more responsible for their own future.

[hollohas]

Hound, if your buddy on the presses isn't getting paid what he thinks he's worth, he's free to go get a new job. If he doesn't have the skills for another job, he needs to get some training. The "man" isn't holding him back. There is still opportunity out there for everyone...people just have to look for it.

I work with business owners everyday who say they are looking for help. The problem is that it's for skilled jobs and there aren't enough skilled laborers. So they have to hire people without experience, and pay them accordingly. The employee quickly quits because they think they aren't being paid enough. Had those same employees put in the time and hard work, they would gain experience and increase their pay.

Employees who work in my company's warehouse do the same thing. We hire unskilled people with no resume, to do unskilled labor and pay them accordingly. They think they are worth more. So they soon get sour and quit...the average stay is just a few months. If they stuck it out, they would have opportunity to climb the ladder and get more pay...some of their predecessors have done just that.

People always think their work is worth more than it actually is. Our society seems to have this inflated ego of itself. We are not all worth the same. I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually produce more than others.

I worked for years at $5.15/hr. I developed good work ethic, skills outside of the minimum wage paying job, searched for opportunities, went after those opportunities with intensity and have got myself into a place that I can singlehandedly support my entire family. I didn't stay at the minimum wage job and complain that I wasn't being paid enough. I bettered myself, worked my ass off to gain skills and found new jobs. I dug myself out...no one handed me anything. And I won't stop now. I will still search for opportunities where I can grow.

You say businesses produce wealth but don't distribute it Then who does? Everyone here has what they have because they earned money working for a business...a business that distributed some of it's profits to them. That my be as an employee or an owner, but the only money any of us have came from a company selling goods or services...period.

[Hound]

Hound, if your buddy on the presses isn't getting paid what he thinks he's worth, he's free to go get a new job. If he doesn't have the skills for another job, he needs to get some training. The "man" isn't holding him back. There is still opportunity out there for everyone...people just have to look for it.

I work with business owners everyday who say they are looking for help. The problem is that it's for skilled jobs and there aren't enough skilled laborers. So they have to hire people without experience, and pay them accordingly. The employee quickly quits because they think they aren't being paid enough. Had those same employees put in the time and hard work, they would gain experience and increase their pay.

Employees who work in my company's warehouse do the same thing. We hire unskilled people with no resume, to do unskilled labor and pay them accordingly. They think they are worth more. So they soon get sour and quit...the average stay is just a few months. If they stuck it out, they would have opportunity to climb the ladder and get more pay...some of their predecessors have done just that.

People always think their work is worth more than it actually is. Our society seems to have this inflated ego of itself. We are not all worth the same. I know it's hard to believe, but some people actually produce more than others.

I worked for years at $5.15/hr. I developed good work ethic, skills outside of the minimum wage paying job, searched for opportunities, went after those opportunities with intensity and have got myself into a place that I can singlehandedly support my entire family. I didn't stay at the minimum wage job and complain that I wasn't being paid enough. I bettered myself, worked my ass off to gain skills and found new jobs. I dug myself out...no one handed me anything. And I won't stop now. I will still search for opportunities where I can grow.

You say businesses produce wealth but don't distribute it Then who does? Everyone here has what they have because they earned money working for a business...a business that distributed some of it's profits to them. That my be as an employee or an owner, but the only money any of us have came from a company selling goods or services...period.

Says "the man". Betcha walked uphill both ways too. The fact is, when you were coming up there was less requirement for for the education needed today and the schools were better at the time. Here is where the government has failed us by not propperly preparing kids for this jobs but then again we have been taking money away from schools for years. You get what you pay for.

Thanks for making my point though. It used to be, as long as you had a high school deploma you could get a decent job to support yourself. You were not driving a Bently but you had all the basics. I too worked the minimum wage jobs, then went in the Navy where the pay sucked but the education/experience was great. Now the pay still sucks and the education is not what it used to be. All of this was 20-30 years ago and it that 20-30 years..... Minimum wage has gone from $2+ dollars to now $7+ dollars. So in that time a $5 raise. At the same time gas has gone from .69 to up to $5 at times. Milk, eggs, bread..... same thing. My rent was $180. I could support my self back then now... Not so much on that wage. If your business owners want skilled workers then either they have to pay to train them or pay taxes so the government can. You can't pay minimum wage and expect somebody to be able to run much of the equipment out there today. You will notice my examples were highly skilled press mechcanics, developers, etc. These are HIGHLY skilled people still getting lowballed. I see it all the time. "The man" wants something for nothing because capitalism means greed to them. It does not work that way.... As we are seeing with not being able staff and the number of jobs that are low paying service jobs.