Waterboarding...

[BigBear]

How have I shifted anything?

Anything goes when trying to get information. When they served their purpose, kill them.

[Mtn.man]

KEMALL and Let The Great spirit sort em out.

[Hoosier]

So, the entire "moral highground" concept goes out the door. Terrorists can justify terrorism, since anything goes?

Some percentage of the people picked up will be innocent. Should they be murdered as well?

There is a moral difference between combat on the battlefield, and putting a bullet in the head of someone who isn't posing you a risk. Kept alive in solitary at ADX Florence they may have a change of heart and decide to help us, even 10 years later we could gain insight into the mindset that is our real enemy. At worst, they hold their beliefs until the day they die, unable to communicate with others.

I mean, I can understand saying what you're saying when you're pissed off because they just dropped some of our buildings. In the rational light of day, with reasoning and logic, I don't see how to defend your position.

H.

[BigBear]

So, the entire "moral highground" concept goes out the door. Terrorists can justify terrorism, since anything goes?

Some percentage of the people picked up will be innocent. Should they be murdered as well?

There is a moral difference between combat on the battlefield, and putting a bullet in the head of someone who isn't posing you a risk.

I see your point. Terrorists do justify what they do. They believe in it and act upon it. If innocent people are picked up then they are not so innocent anymore. I TOTALLY agree with you on the moral difference between the battelfield and someone who walks in off the street confessing. On the battlefield anything goes, line em up when caught and shoot. If someone walks in off the street and confesses, etc, then yeah you can do all the holding, trying to befriend and all that crap, but they should still be killed. They may have a sincere change of heart. The guys on the battelfield though... no deal.

Maybe it is some "fantasy" as Jake so describes but that's how I think.

[Hoosier]

"On the battlefield anything goes, line em up when caught and shoot."

So when our troops get captured, they should be lined up and shot, and we're just like, "Ok, that's fair and reasonable."

I mean, you have to be able to perceive the situation from points of view other than your own. Understanding how they perceive it will allow you some insight into how they'll respond. We don't torture, because We. Are. Better. Than They Are. We use to be able to say it. Now we're just hypocrites.

[BigBear]

Unfortunately, yes. That is the job we sign up for.[/COLOR]

I mean, you have to be able to perceive the situation from points of view other than your own. I can and do, and thus my often unpopular stances. Understanding how they perceive it will allow you some insight into how they'll respond. I understand and percieve in the radical muslim enviroment, Americans are infidels... no amount of money, treating prisoners nice, etc will change that. Their culture keeps feuds and grudges for generations upon generations. They will not stop until total defeat. We don't torture, because We. Are. Better. Than They Are. We use to be able to say it. Now we're just hypocrites. America is a hypocritical, double standard nation. I can still say proudly though that we ARE better than they are.

How much longer that will last... who knows.

[ChunkyMonkey]

I grew up within one of those fundamentalist enclavements. I woke up every morning watching kid cartoons that taught that killing infidels is a good thing, I was taught to marry infidel women and to assimilate them into islamic culture. I like to assume I know islamic fundamentalist better than most people I know here.

To think that we are better so we should not use a certain method that is considered torture by some is almost self fish.

These fundamentalist would fight you, lost the battle, dropped their weapons, asked for your forgiveness (or currently in afghan, walk away from their position), only to kill you on the very next opportunity. Most of them have been brainwashed and fail to see what we are doing is 'better' or more 'humane.' In their eyes - these are our weaknesses!

Perhaps I have witnessed too much, but I personally HATE extremists and will not treat them as equal human being as they do not see me as one.

My 2 cent!

[jake]

I understand and percieve in the radical muslim enviroment, Americans are infidels... no amount of money, treating prisoners nice, etc will change that. Their culture keeps feuds and grudges for generations upon generations. They will not stop until total defeat.

It's not about them though, is it? As you say, their attitudes will never change, no matter what we do. So we fight them hard, we prosecute them on the battlefield, we incarcerate them until they're no longer a threat.

It's about the people with no particular axe to grind who just want to get on with their lives. I'm personally of the opinion that if we go around torturing, executing and behaving in exactly the way that the radicals say we behave, we're not going to do much to convince moderate Muslims that we have anything to offer them.

It took the British 200 years to realise that if you treat people like crap, eventually they'll reach their breaking point and now it seems like America is the only country more universally hated than Britain (which means if I ever go on holiday to Afghanistan I'm doubly screwed )

[Great-Kazoo]

"On the battlefield anything goes, line em up when caught and shoot."

So when our troops get captured, they should be lined up and shot, and we're just like, "Ok, that's fair and reasonable."

I mean, you have to be able to perceive the situation from points of view other than your own. Understanding how they perceive it will allow you some insight into how they'll respond. We don't torture, because We. Are. Better. Than They Are. We use to be able to say it. Now we're just hypocrites.

NO...... we would be Hyprocrites IF we did a podcast of us beheading them.

As for fair and reasonable, while sympathetic to our military both past and present (navy here) I have family members who have been in the sandbox, some going back for the 3rd time. I have no sympathy, sorrow, or regret for anything that happens to MUSLIM EXTREMIST.
They have decided to not only attack military, but also civilian targets, the majority being fellow Muslims. IF they only attacked Military targets, then yes i would reconsider some of my statements/beliefs. HOWEVER since they are non discriminatory in their attacks, they have no foundation saying it is a JIHAD against the INFIDEL AMERICA.
All they are interested in doing is killing, maiming, torturing etc. That is why they are called TERRORIST.

[Troublco]

I find myself having difficulty choosing the words I want to express my feelings on this. The bleeding hearts who are so concerned with how we're treating those poor unfortunate souls who happen to consider a 2 year old child as a legitimate target bother me. Maybe they should haul themselves down to the local Army or Marine recruiter and sign up for a 4 year tour as Ground Infantry, so they can go over and make a difference in how those poor unfortunate muslim extremists are being treated instead of judging the way the folks that are in the thick of it are handling it.

Flat out, an Infidel to them is ANYONE not a muslim. Babies, children, women, men, they don't care. The more, the better. They find the most creative and nasty ways to take care of their prisoners, while we fret and cry that the poor unfortunate souls in Guantanamo Bay don't have enough Korans, or that their prayer rugs aren't good enough, or whatever.

I wonder, how many of the folks who are so concerned about how we're treating those poor, poor muslim extremists would be all that concerned if the person on the Al Jazeera video being beheaded with a knife was their buddy, brother, uncle, nephew, son, etc? Are they going to cry that the poor, misunderstood muslim isn't to blame and should be gently brought around and made to understand that they shouldn't do those bad things? All right now, go play nice! I doubt it. I don't think their moral high ground would stand that test.

Their religion teaches them that it's OK to kill us. We, on the other hand, have to be nice to them. Heck, if we legitimately kill too many with headshots we have investigators go over there and grill the troops. One Taliban bigwig gets a bloody lip from a Navy SEAL, those SEALs are done for, Baby! Never mind that the Taliban guy would gut their wives or girlfriends in front of them for sport.

Well, if you want to cry for them you go right ahead. I think we can deal with the torture/abuse problem simply and expediently by NOT TAKING PRISONERS. If they are on the field of battle with a gun and no uniform, shoot them right there and be done with it. No abuse. No torture. No problems.