Arsenal AKs

[UrbanWolf]

Not to be a jerk but I haven't seem much interesting or knowledge AK info in your posts on this thread.

And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.

[spyder]

And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.

I would still like to know why it takes these guys 5 hrs to make a receiver... that's ridiculous. Hell, maybe I should call them and tell them I can get it done at a mere fraction of that with better tolerances....

[Jacket]

As a neutral party in this discussion I disagree with this statement. So far he has added gobs of useful, tangible specs & facts to bolster his side of the discussion. What you've come to the table with is feelings & emotion and almost no quantifiable information to go off of for your side of the conversation. Say you don't want to be a jerk but by definition that seems like exactly what your mission is from a neutral party watching this unfold and having an interest in AK47's. You want to not seem like a jerk? Don't argue on emotion against someone who is basing their stance on fact.

Where are these "tangible specs & facts" is see the "Bulgarian milled receiver. Then you add things like hammer forged chrome lined barrels and forged bolts," When you are bragging up a gun that has , chrome lined barrel and forged bolts.. ? That's usually found in most basic guns. the milled receiver is nice much nicer then the folded metal receiver, but still not that spectacular.

I really couldn't find any "useful, tangible specs & facts" ....?

And the only thing you ever said is that AKs are cheaply made while providing not evidence on how cheap the production cost actually is this days.

I am not a machinist and have not researched the subject extensively. But all the sources I have looked into seem to point to the facts that it takes less money and machinery to set up an operation to build AK-47s then AR-15s. Thus one of the great appeals of using AK-47s in covert wars and other grey areas. Also the tolerances can be much more crude then the AR-15 and still operate in a reliable fashion (look at century arms for an example of poor tolerances).
The amount of plastic on your average AR-15 seems like it would be hard to set up a plastic inject molding shop. Where I have seen many AK with basic grade lumber stocks.

This subject has been discussed before, Most of my researched into the subject has been from book or talking to gunsmiths, here one link I came a crossed. I will look around for more info out are the internet when I get a chance. If anyone else has some I would love to see it.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/i.../t-400941.html

Like I said I love AK, if ammo was not a factor and I was in a war I would probably choose the AK.

--I am not a gunsmith or a machinist so correct me is I am wrong or educate me but please add more then regurgitated marketing or copy paste info from merchant pages.

[buffalobo]

I just bought a custom built AR for $1000. so much more quality and craftsmanship then an AK.

Like I said I love AK, if ammo was not a factor and I was in a war I would probably choose the AK.

$1000 for custom AR but not the AK to fight with?

I personally would not pay $1000 for an AK unless it were custom/special, but then I have never paid $1000 for an AR either.


Thread is getting kinda circular, don't let it deteriorate.

[ray1970]

Here's an analogy that might make sense to the two of you trying to have the pissing contest.

Let's say the Arsenal is a high end Mercedes and the lower end AK's are Fords and Chevys.

Some guys are just fine with their Chevys. I mean it does everything thing the Mercedes does at half the cost, right? Hell, it might even have heated leather seats.

Then there are guys that buy the Mecedes. Maybe they think it offers a bit more than the Chevy or Ford even though it cost a bit more so they are willing to spend the extra money.

I don't think either of them is right or wrong in their choice. I mean it's there money right? Different strokes for different folks and all.

[hurley842002]

Here's an analogy that might make sense to the two of you trying to have the pissing contest.

Let's say the Arsenal is a high end Mercedes and the lower end AK's are Fords and Chevys.

Some guys are just fine with their Chevys. I mean it does everything thing the Mercedes does at half the cost, right? Hell, it might even have heated leather seats.

Then there are guys that buy the Mecedes. Maybe they think it offers a bit more than the Chevy or Ford even though it cost a bit more so they are willing to spend the extra money.

I don't think either of them is right or wrong in their choice. I mean it's there money right? Different strokes for different folks and all.

/thread

[Big E3]

As previously stated I was only addressing Arsenal, as that is the thread title. I am not making any attempt to justify the prices Arsenal is charging. I have only given the facts that I'm aware of pertaining to there manufacturing. I admit to keeping the details somewhat simplified so as not to speak over anyone's head and aid in comprehension, does not appear to have helped some. If anyone knows of any important details I have left out please feel free to chime in. My only reason for giving this info was for anybody that may not be familiar with how Arsenal may differ from other AK's. I realize that some here already know everything there is to know about all AK's and have nothing else to learn, so there would be no need for them to even be reading this thread.

I can't believe it takes Arsenal 5.5 hours of machining to make a single receiver. That does sound a bit slow. It isn't like Bulgaria is a third world country either. You would think a company like Arsenal that has been building a significant volume of military AK's for over 50 years would be doing it as simple as possible. It is a solid block of steel unlike the folded sheet metal ones. It is a mystery to me why any manufacture would even bother with expense of a milled receiver on any AK.

I will not pay a $1000 for an AK or AR either. I would, however, much rather build the much more complicated AR than the simple AK. I have had much more success and find it somehow easier building the AR platform. I don't think it even took me 5.5 hours to finish my own 80% AR receiver. The one AK I built did not turn out as well as I had hoped. I ended up selling it as parts. That guy put everything together on a NoDak Spud, and turned out nice. But attempting to build AK's does give you a new appreciation for the rattle traps the lowlifes are putting together in a garage in Terroristan. I need to go now to take a piss.

[Jacket]

$1000 for custom AR but not the AK to fight with?

Just don't know... The AK is just so bass ass a low range 10-50yds and I am faster with it. But the AR has a match barrel that will reach out way farther and ammo is lighter. House to House AK for sure. Out in the open AR.
Depends, not sure.
--
Like I have said I love the AK. But it is a crude gun I would only pay so much for. Just like I love machetes but they are not worth what a German kitchen knife is.

So I did a little reading about these glorious Arsenals, They have a lot of hyped up marketing and a big fan club, But the reality of them seems just like you average AK-47 with a big marketing plain. Same old AK stuff canted sights, crooked parts, poor finishes.
Personally I just cannot see spending $1200. on a gun you have to bring home and beat with a rubber mallet and bend parts with vice grips. Buying an AK (Especially ordering one with out see it..) is a crap shoot. Arsenal is no different.

The reviews for Arsenal(real reviews and not marking and fan boy hype) are the same as any other AK.


http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36161
That was until I recently purchased three Arsenal rifles. Two of the three, a 106UR and a 107UR, both have canted sights. The other, a 106CR, was very unreliable. To their credit, they replaced it on the fourth trip back.

I would not say that Arsenal has poor QC. I'd say that they don't have QC at all. No, I'm not joking.They're just modifying rifles and putting them out the door. If any consideration whatsoever was given to QC, there is no way that so many rifles with problems could have made it out. They do have some very cool models, but they need to get their act together. I sure hope they do.

http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/ind.../t-106687.html
I'd have no problem with the wear. What I would have a problem with was the noticeable crookedness that was apparent on the 2 SLR-107 samples I looked over at the lgs. It was like looking at a strung bow. The barrels and stocks on both curved to the left.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_64/13...ht__SGL21.html
My SGL21 had a canted front sight and gas block. Called Arsenal and they basicly told me there is nothing they would do about it

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=448813
My friend bought a new Arsenal AK for ~$900 a while back. We took it to the range and spent the next two hours trying to get it on paper. I finally told him to get it over to the 10 yard range and see where the heck it was hitting.

Turns out the front sight was so far off, it was almost hitting the target next to it. I think there was a recall on that particular model.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=93872
I just picked up another AK, this time a Arsenal SLR 107f. The front sight is canted. This does not shock me (had this problem on another Arsenal before) but its getting old. I could see this on a Romanian gun, but for the kind of money Arsenal asks for their rifles they ought to be able to put a front sight on straight.

[ray1970]

Hey, Jacket.

Just to let you know, your "$1,000 custom AR" with the "match barrel" probably isn't any better than a DPMS or Bushmaster and they cost half as much.

[buffalobo]

Continued circular firing squad and more barbs.

Thread done.