2015 Fatal police shootings. Averaging 2 a day for the year.

[Jer]

I should add that I get what you were saying about the use of force in that situation probably being justified & not doing it for fear of retribution. The sad fact is we share that same fear. I carry 24/7/365 & there was a time where I would have rushed to save another innocent person from an attacker but now.. probably not. If I find myself in an active shooter scenario I'm looking for the exit. If I can get my wife & myself out w/o being detected you better bet your ass that's what I'm doing. I'll call for help & give real good details from a safe distance. In the current social climate I simply can't risk what will likely happen to me financially if I do pull that trigger even if I'm cleared of any criminal wrong doing. So I get where you're coming from although I tend to give a little more leeway to Sheriff Deputies & State Patrolman who work out in the boonies by themselves when it comes to the use of lethal force. Too bad civil courts don't.

[Aloha_Shooter]

I was talking to the OPs original statements and the recent incident where (an admitted dumbass) ran from a cop. When, after tazzing him, the cop shot a man in the back.

What recent incident are you talking about? In the one I'm thinking of, the runner took the officer's Tazer. I still don't know enough about the case to want to render judgment but I can at least understand a fear for life when someone pulled and ran off with the Tazer after a struggle.

[Irving]

What recent incident are you talking about? In the one I'm thinking of, the runner took the officer's Tazer. I still don't know enough about the case to want to render judgment but I can at least understand a fear for life when someone pulled and ran off with the Tazer after a struggle.

There was a video. You'd have a hard time defending the officer.

[Irving]

I had two separate instances where I was not only justified in using lethal force, but should have (and dozens of others that could've gone either way). But because of all the armchair quarterbacks out there (you know who you are), I didn't at the risk of my own life. I was stabbed in the face with a screwdriver by one guy...think is was 92 or 94...don't remember for sure. I didn't shoot because we were alone on the side of Hwy 285 in the middle of the night and I knew I'd be raked over the coals by people who had an unlimited amount of time to make a decision while reviewing the incident from the sidelines. So, instead, we fought for our lives for about 6 and half minutes before I was able to even call for help...help that was 15 mins away. When it was all over I'd hit the guy with my ASP over 35 times and broken both bones in his left forearm. All the while he continued to fight and didn't feel a thing. I suffered a stab wound in my face, two sprained knees, a lower back injury and a broken nose. There's a lot more that goes into police work than getting a pair of running shoes. Sometimes it isn't the bad guys who are the true enemies of the police.

Tyrant.



You've got some good stories. I like the one where you gave the girl a DUI after blowing a .02. She earned it.

[cstone]

and another one...

http://www.krdo.com/news/police-shoo...chase/33437470

So after stealing a car (a felony) this individual violated two of the take aways I cited above in the OP. Specifically, #2 as a pursuit generally only happens when someone runs, and #3 he was pointing a long gun at police (according to witnesses).

There aren't any specific laws against running from the police, but think about predatory behavior. Movement draws attention. If someone runs, most cops will assume that unless they look like they are running for fitness purposes, the person running is running from something. Either they are being chased or they are trying to get away from something they don't want to be near. That could be a dangerous situation or a crime scene. Right or wrong, if you are trying to avoid interaction with the police, then running from them or running past them is probably not going to get you the reaction you want. Do not be surprised when the police pursue. The absolute best way to end a pursuit by the police is to STOP RUNNING. Comply with their commands and do not resist. What I meant with the Don't run from the police take away, is that it often ends badly for people who run. Not because the police can't chase you, but because adrenaline, increased heart rates, and tunnel vision often lead to bad decision making on everyone's part. If you STOP RUNNING, the police will STOP RUNNING and then you will have a chance to resolve the situation. A trip to jail is better than a trip to the hospital, which is how many pursuits end for both the pursued and the pursuer.

And as for the notion that anyone, even an armed and trained police officer should charge forward because they chose the profession despite knowing the danger or that someone after the fact can then assess the danger as being minor because the suspect only shot once or was a skinny tweeker... Really? I am not defending the destruction of the house in Greenwood Valley. The police work for the people of GV and Colorado. IMO, the taxpayers should make the home owner whole. If the elected officials or voters of GV and Colorado would like to take some administrative action against the police responsible for the damage, there are ways that can happen.

Bailey Guns, I am glad you survived and mostly recovered from your injuries. Years on the job have a way of accumulating the damage on your body. It is a rare individual who leaves the job even close to the same physical condition when they started. We used to joke about "the young guys run, the old guys use the car and the radio." I do not know a single cop who went to work wanting to shoot someone. I'm sure there are a few out there, but they would be a rare exception. If you weren't scared when you pulled your gun out, you will be by the time the Use of Force investigators get through with you.

I appreciate that it has been about 24 hours and this discussion has remained civil. Well done.

[Hound]

The video cleary (this is not up for discussion if you saw the video) shows the only way that guy 'took' the tazer was in the back as he was running with the leads and wires sticking out of him. Then he gets shot. Even if that were not true and he had the 'gun' itself, which it is, tazers are a one shot and done tool. If its been discharged... thats it. Some allow you more jolts of juice but as far as firing it again... Ain't gonna happen.

What recent incident are you talking about? In the one I'm thinking of, the runner took the officer's Tazer. I still don't know enough about the case to want to render judgment but I can at least understand a fear for life when someone pulled and ran off with the Tazer after a struggle.

[Bailey Guns]

"If the police have to come and get you, they're bringin' an ass-kickin' with them." - Chris Rock

Might be appropriate to review Rock's "How Not To Get Your Ass Kicked By The Police" video. If nothing else it's funny and may lighten the mood. But there's also a lot of good advice for a lot of people that could use it in that video...even if it is comedy.

[cstone]

If this is the video you are referring to:

https://youtu.be/JCh8HhZ3Bww

The former police officer has been charged with murder and fired. Video from just about any source is important. Video isn't perfect, but it is better than almost any eyewitness account.

[Hound]

I agree and have stated running is a dumbass move in general. My point was that does not justify (don't care about the adrenaline) 'bad things happening". The good/bad guys are also dealing with adrenaline (probably more) and that is not an excuse for their bad decisions. Cops are supposed to be better.

As far as cops 'charging forward', if you go back a read what I said was get a pair of running shoes and call for backup. Sounds like we are in violent agreement here with your young/old cops statement.

If anybody is running, that is not in and of itself ANY indication of guilt for doing something wrong. Does that mean the cop cannot or should not pursue, of course not. What that does mean is that they are NO threat to those they are running from. We are also not talking about running with an AK into a mall here or purposefully aiming at people with a car before that starts coming up. We are also not talking about when in Baileys case they are obvioulsy not running but attacking. Cops have several things the average bad guy does not. These include training, numbers, more numbers if needed, in rare cases heavy hitting numbers (calling out the Guard as in Ferguson), better comms, in many (not all) cases better equipement and finally (as in Bailey's case where a citizen called for backup) the vast majority of us the citizens........ If the populous does not feel it is seen as "THEM". The biggest thing they have though, is time (again not always, but generally). If a guy runs and the cop cannot catch the bad guy, backup comes quickly to support. If the guy gets away, they have a description and may catch them the next day. You can't catch them all. The point is, if a guy is running..... Threat level is zero unless they turn around.... Then this is a different situation.

Jer, I swear you are reading my mind. Well put.

Yup, thats the video. While it is good that charges have been brought and he is fired the concern was how it was originally handled. They started to cover for him and only when the video came out did that change. The issue is what would have happened if there was not video.

[cstone]

The "charging forward" part was taken from the GV house barricade and some of the comments made about sending a dog in or robots or making a violent entry. In those situations, someone makes the decision how the barricade will be handled and the officers carry it out the best way they know how. I agree, the house in GV looks excessive, but to me the more important part is that the jurisdiction should make the homeowner whole. No one, not even the military in a war zone, attacks blindly into a known armed hostile in a barricade.

I understand what you are saying about having time on your side and many departments have moved to limit their pursuit policies. These are case by case issues and they will be handled by the departments and personnel as they deem appropriate at the time. My point is for people who do not want to deal with the police or end up in a bad situation with the police; one of the simplest things to do is STOP RUNNING!