Cops shot at Dallas BLM protest

[Delfuego]

They are taking manageable exceptions and creating exponential consequences for all of us.

Please explain what a "manageable exception" is? What if that "exception" was someone you knew? We are taking about lives here.

[ClangClang]

Question for the LEO's here on the board: Apart from SWAT, do police in major cities get basic urban active shooter training? Or are PD's just lucky when they hire ex-military (especially from the combat arms MOS's) who bring those skills with them?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the average police officer doesn't get the kind of training to deal with last night's situation. I imagine it'd be prohibitively expensive.

tangent: on TV an anchor was interviewing some LEO expert who made the point that "it's so easy for everyone to grab a camera and film instances where police don't do their job perfectly, but you never see those same people filming drug deals or illegal gun dealing" [for the purposes of shaming criminals].

Not a LEO myself, but was an EMT for years and worked closely with the PD in my town when I lived in NJ. As it was explained to me.... it's exactly as you surmise. Most cops don't get this training at all. Maybe a 1-2 day class somewhere during their career. A select few will get selected to an ERU (Emergency Response Unit) or something similar who will get some level of advanced tactical training which is often just about passing the certification test to carry a M4 or SMG (my town had UMPs), but typically still less training than the County/City SWAT team. Very few of the cops were "gun guys" and most were slightly towards the side of anti-2a for anyone other than police, despite the fact that I could outshoot and outrun most of them. Obviously a byproduct of growing up in NJ.

[Snowman78]

Question for the LEO's here on the board: Apart from SWAT, do police in major cities get basic urban active shooter training? Or are PD's just lucky when they hire ex-military (especially from the combat arms MOS's) who bring those skills with them?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the average police officer doesn't get the kind of training to deal with last night's situation. I imagine it'd be prohibitively expensive.

tangent: on TV an anchor was interviewing some LEO expert who made the point that "it's so easy for everyone to grab a camera and film instances where police don't do their job perfectly, but you never see those same people filming drug deals or illegal gun dealing" [for the purposes of shaming criminals].

I work for a large sheriff's dept, luckily we have very good training. We train at least once a year for active shooters in all different type of settings (schools, office settings, urban, forest, ect.)

[sellersm]

According to this report some "Black Power" group took responsibility. Not sure if true or a decoy to stir up more trouble:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...-power-8378177


Sent from my fat fingers using Tapatalk

[KestrelBike]

Not a LEO myself, but was an EMT for years and worked closely with the PD in my town when I lived in NJ. As it was explained to me.... it's exactly as you surmise. Most cops don't get this training at all. Maybe a 1-2 day class somewhere during their career. A select few will get selected to an ERU (Emergency Response Unit) or something similar who will get some level of advanced tactical training which is often just about passing the certification test to carry a M4 or SMG (my town had UMPs), but typically still less training than the County/City SWAT team. Very few of the cops were "gun guys" and most were slightly towards the side of anti-2a for anyone other than police, despite the fact that I could outshoot and outrun most of them. Obviously a byproduct of growing up in NJ.

Makes sense.

I work for a large sheriff's dept, luckily we have very good training. We train at least once a year for active shooters in all different type of settings (schools, office settings, urban, forest, ect.)

Nice, stay safe out there.

ETA: AG lynch press-conference: Miss Piggy's calling for gun control. But first, she said the DOJ is sending feds to LA/MN for a civil rights investigation into the shootings of the two guys earlier this week (basically equivocating the three events), and that the Dallas peaceful protest was in response to these shootings. BUT THE ANSWER ISN'T VIOLENCE!

[Big E3]

So I guess BHO will have to come back from his European vacation before he and the rest of the Demonrats get up in front of the nation to say this shooting was caused by white conservatives. And tell us, I know terrorists and blacks are shooting at you, the innocent white people, but you must surrender your guns and come out with your hands up.

Does anybody think Demonrats will ever stop stirring the turd and admit they are causing this to happen and dividing the nation on purpose? I’m starting to think BHO has been tasked with the job of disarming us so takeover is easier for his compatriots.

[Irving]

What are people seeing on Facebook? Are there pockets of support for the shooters anywhere? There will always be a few idiots who say stuff for attention online, but I can't imagine that there is a strong movement of support.

[Bailey Guns]

Please explain what a "manageable exception" is? What if that "exception" was someone you knew? We are taking about lives here.

Skip isn't making light of any particular tragedy. He's saying white officers intentionally shooting black males because they can is the exception, not the rule. If an officer mistakenly/negligently/intentionally shoots someone that didn't deserve to be shot, deal with it on the individual officer level (or with whomever is involved). Don't try to make it into some sort of epidemic of white officers intentionally and wantonly murdering blacks. Because it isn't. I resent the hell out of being punished for something I didn't do. That's why we all dislike the "it's the gun's fault" bullshit that we have to endure day in and day out.

I think you know full well what Skip meant.

[Skip]

Please explain what a "manageable exception" is? What if that "exception" was someone you knew? We are taking about lives here.

We are a country of 320 MILLION people. You want community policing? Then things are going to happen. We have a system to review those exceptions and enforce consequences. If the cops were wrong or "bad" they will get multiple levels of review with DoJ being involved.

Don't want community policing? Okay, pull out all the cops and watch what happens. The Ferguson Effect will get more black people killed than cops have in decades. This is becoming a sad reality in Baltimore.

No where is permission provided to go murder other people who had nothing to do with those other shootings. To do so on the basis of race (and yes, that is what this is about to the BLM murderers) is disgusting.

So if it were someone I knew would I be justified in murdering someone of the same race as the perp? Or same occupation? If a cop in Colorado shoots someone I know, I have license to murder a cop in Utah? Is that really what you're suggesting?

[KevDen2005]

Question for the LEO's here on the board: Apart from SWAT, do police in major cities get basic urban active shooter training? Or are PD's just lucky when they hire ex-military (especially from the combat arms MOS's) who bring those skills with them?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the average police officer doesn't get the kind of training to deal with last night's situation. I imagine it'd be prohibitively expensive.

tangent: on TV an anchor was interviewing some LEO expert who made the point that "it's so easy for everyone to grab a camera and film instances where police don't do their job perfectly, but you never see those same people filming drug deals or illegal gun dealing" [for the purposes of shaming criminals].

I didn't want to derail the thread for any reason and give myself attention. But to answer the question I think it depends on where you work. The agency I used to work for was a smaller and slower metro agency, but honestly did a lot of really good training. Active shooter training was hosted by the SO and was required every year and they taught different searching and shooting techniques and so on. The agency I worked for also hosted a day long active shooter scenario, from start to finish, of numerous active shooters in a large building encompassing numerous agencies, SWAT, bomb squad, negotiations, incident command and so on. It was evaluated by former Special Forces personnel. I do think the agency took the training seriously.

I love where I work now, another metro agency, and I am very happy I made the move. The agency is extremely busy and extremely short handed, probably at least 50 officers or more (imagine good people not wanting to be cops, well that time has arrived) attempted to put on some training and I think a few egos at top levels are getting in the way for this to be conducted appropriately. I feel lucky having been a part of the military and previous training. We are issued Kevlar helmets and gas masks. Based on my experience as one of the first responding officers at AHS in 2013 I myself have created an active shooter "go" bag. Not everyone does. I keep extra ammo, rope, batteries, water, door stops, tools, etc. in the bag. A lot of people don't find that necessary. I know it's only a matter of time when I will need to do use this. My agency also requires tourniquets to be carried on our duty belts. I have purchased AR500 body armor to put on over my uniform in the event of an active shooter call.