Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
It's happening folks... We are shooting this match again this coming Saturday, August 4, 2018. Set up starts at 7:00am and the match itself at 9:00am.
Don't miss out on the fun. Be there early!!
Hope to see you all on Saturday!!
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I have 5 stages, yes 5 stages ready for Saturday! Keep in mind there are only two more matches scheduled for 2018; August & September.
Yesterday was super fun even if it was baking hot.
Think the Zig-Zag stage was my fav - the flow on that was great.
I also really enjoyed the steel stage this time around and feel all the steel stages this year have pushed me to become a better rifle shooter.
Thanks to Denver_AR and Cysoto for making all these matches happen and I'm looking forward to the last of the year!
The Zig-zig was good because it flowed well, but it did some quirks like the starting side-side shooting. I think what distinguished that from the next one with the barrels was that the barrels got tight and a lot a few of the targets were close to 180s. I helped set that one up and trying to get the barrels and the targets placed so that they were off the 180, but then not just behind the 180 from the barrel in front. It definately is interesting to spend more time with the set-up and then run it to get more understanding.
Thanks to Cy for walking me through a few of the stages to see it with his eyes. That really helped.
Thanks to Denver_AR for the further insights in stage training. Great to squad with you.
For this comp we score major and minor the same, right? A=5, B&C=3 and D=1? Mike= -10 and FTEngage = an other -10? And then HitF= points/time?
So on the steel, they are all “A” hits worth 5. How does the math work out where people take one shot (to avoid the failure to engage penalty), but take the -10 for the miss and still have enough points to get a good Hit Factor?
It would really nice to get the 200 yard range used so that we use that cover. If we can assume that rifles are about 3MOA, and people are using a 2-3 MOA dot, maybe start with a big piece of steel shot from different ports on a wall. How big were the steel on the 200 yard range? Do we still have to have at least some paper?
I'll stop buying black rifles when my wife stops buying black shoes.
That is a great question with no easy answer. Let us look a few different scenarios to try to figure it out…Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand
We know that the top two shooters on the 200yd stage shot all targets in under 50 seconds and ended up with a Hit Factor (HF) just below 1.5 (points per second).
Let us say that a shooter could have made the shots on the first two position then jumped on the wobbly bridge, get two “A” hits on each of the 3 paper targets and finally, sent 3 quick shots in the direction of the steel plates (missing all 3 but avoiding the “Failure to Engage” penalty). Now let us say that this person achieved this in 30 seconds. This person would have ended up with 60 points in 30 seconds which would have resulted in an HF of 2.0; enough to crush the competition and win the stage.
Now let’s say that another shooter would have taken the same approach but it took this person 60 seconds. This would have resulted in an HF of 1.0 which would have been enough to secure an 8th place finish on the stage.
Both of these scenarios would have afforded most shooters a better placement in the stage and the shooters would have not been wrong to do so because their actions would have been well within the rules of the game.
On the flipside of that is those of us who had never had the chance to shoot at 10” targets at this distance from a moving platform. I took this as an opportunity to practice a new shooting skill but, by doing this, I took a lot longer to make my hits on target.
Ultimately it is a personal choice and neither approach is wrong. One person can game it, another one can use the opportunity to practice a very challenging skill. In my opinion, neither choice is wrong.
If you want to "game" a local match to get a win, certainly your choice, but it won't make you a better shooter. If you were to take that kind of approach to stages at a major, like the Wyoming Governors match this past weekend, you would be absolutely crushed. Since the match uses their own ruleset, there can be several approaches on the 200 yard berm. Longer targets can (and should) have higher value penalties for misses and FTEs. If the way to "win" a stage is firing shots in the direction of targets to avoid FTEs but also lower their stage time, that is not a well thought out stage design...or there were just not enough good shooters at the match.
Every single major ruleset allows the increasing of the point value, or penalty for a miss, of longer, or more difficult targets. IPSC rifle allows doubling, USPSA can be more than double, same with UML, IMGA and most outlaw match rulesets.
Isn't there a 10 point penalty for misses? So 60- 30 (3x 10).
I shoot for all the targets, I was just trying to figure out the math on how you can miss fast enough (vs hit slow) to have a 'higher' score. That left target I 'suppressed' more than aimed at. I knew kind of where it was.
I'll stop buying black rifles when my wife stops buying black shoes.
You are correct; my math was flawed. If a shooter shoots the stage in 30 seconds but misses 3 targets, the HF would have been 1.0 and not 2.0 as I first said. To get an HF of 2.0 the stage would have had to be shot in 15 seconds (which would have probably almost impossible to do).
Are you guys planning a match this Saturday the 1st?
Sure are!
I'm also looking for one or two folks to bring a stage.
Matthew
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