*CONFIRMED SEE PAGE 7* Littleton PD Requesting online-uploads of video for firearms transactions

[Great-Kazoo]

Serial number is not included in the submission to CBI. They never see it.

That may an dIIRC is different for Pawn shops. Not a stand alone FFL, since, as mentioned, CBI does not do any thing regarding serial numners. It's the usual Name DL, D.O.B, SS if written down, gender, race, citizen. Hand gun, long gun, other

[Skip]

Spoke to a LE friend who helped clarify this. So when a private seller takes his firearm to an FFL to do a private transfer the transfer is actually a 3 way transfer the gun goes from the seller, then goes on the books with the FFL, and then the FFL transfers the gun to the buyer. So required as a business taking in the gun they are required to do the same process as if you were consigning, pawning, or selling the gun to them. The seller is the only one that has to submit to the questionnaire, finger print, and photo NOT the buyer. The reason is when you do the FFL transfer CBI does not clear the serial number on the weapon being sold. There was incident in which a local gun shop took a weapon on consignment and sold it to a private individual that individual was a Legal CCW holder and had LE contact in another state. When his weapon serial number was cleared it came back as stolen as it was a stolen weapon when it was consigned and never cleared before being sold.

I as a buyer am shocked to find out that even doing private ffl transfers CBI does t clear the serial number to check if it is stolen.

The FFL never exchanges funds in this scenario and isn't the broker. He only paid his transfer fee for the service of a "background check." If a buyer fails a check, what happens? Seller walks out with his gun.

A camera isn't checking the serials. So again, there is no policy benefit here other than stomping on gun owners and legally endangering FFLs.

[Little Dutch]

Spoke to a LE friend who helped clarify this. So when a private seller takes his firearm to an FFL to do a private transfer the transfer is actually a 3 way transfer the gun goes from the seller, then goes on the books with the FFL, and then the FFL transfers the gun to the buyer. So required as a business taking in the gun they are required to do the same process as if you were consigning, pawning, or selling the gun to them. The seller is the only one that has to submit to the questionnaire, finger print, and photo NOT the buyer. The reason is when you do the FFL transfer CBI does not clear the serial number on the weapon being sold. There was incident in which a local gun shop took a weapon on consignment and sold it to a private individual that individual was a Legal CCW holder and had LE contact in another state. When his weapon serial number was cleared it came back as stolen as it was a stolen weapon when it was consigned and never cleared before being sold.

I as a buyer am shocked to find out that even doing private ffl transfers CBI does t clear the serial number to check if it is stolen.

CBI shouldn?t even be involved in the process. The whole thing started is a scam designed to make it harder and more expensive for law abiding people to buy and sell firearms.

Your friend is mistaken as well. The ffl does not take in the firearm. They never own it and it never goes on their books.

[CS1983]

CBI shouldn?t even be involved in the process. The whole thing started is a scam designed to make it harder and more expensive for law abiding people to buy and sell firearms.

Your friend is mistaken as well. The ffl does not take in the firearm. They never own it and it never goes on their books.

Why would Law Enforcement know the mechanism of the law?

[ray1970]

Your friend is mistaken as well. The ffl does not take in the firearm. They never own it and it never goes on their books.

Then every FFL I?ve used for a private party transfer since the law went into affect has been doing it wrong.

[CS1983]

Is that semantics? I mean, is it really property of the FFL at any point during the private party transfer? Or do they just act as a legal agent for the state in such a regard as confirming pertinent info and assisting with the BGC?

[Little Dutch]

Then every FFL I?ve used for a private party transfer since the law went into affect has been doing it wrong.

Correct. You should find a better informed ffl. The ffl is simply being paid to use their CBI account to run a CBI background check.

[Little Dutch]

Is that semantics? I mean, is it really property of the FFL at any point during the private party transfer? Or do they just act as a legal agent for the state in such a regard as confirming pertinent info and assisting with the BGC?

I think it's mostly semantics, yes. Unless the dealer believes that once it is on their FFL books, they must perform a BGC to transfer it out to anyone. This becomes a problem if the buyer on a private sale is rejected by the system. The dealer would then be obligated to run a BGC on the seller before he can let him leave with the firearm, because it's in his books.

[BPTactical]

In this thread we see who has no idea of the requirements of a FFL.
It's not semantics, it is law.
A- A FFL cannot lawfully "Transfer" an asset unless it is logged into their books.
B- The minute a FFL logs an asset into their books regardless of circumstances it is known as an "Acquisition" and therefore, is the possession and responsibility of the FFL until it is "Disposed"(Transferred) of.
C- Unless the FFL is Disposing/transferring the asset to another FFL a 4473 and ensuing BGC must be performed on the party the asset is being transferred to regardless who they are (even the party selling/transferring the asset and wishing to reclaim it).


From HB-13-1229

(b) A LICENSED GUN DEALER WHO OBTAINS A BACKGROUND CHECK
ON A PROSPECTIVE TRANSFEREE SHALL RECORD THE TRANSFER, AS PROVIDED
IN SECTION 12-26-102, C.R.S., AND RETAIN THE RECORDS, AS PROVIDED IN
SECTION 12-26-103,C.R.S., IN THE SAME MANNER AS WHEN CONDUCTING A
SALE, RENTAL, OR EXCHANGE AT RETAIL.THE LICENSED GUN DEALER SHALL
COMPLY WITH ALL STATE AND FEDERAL LAWS, INCLUDING 18 U.S.C. SEC.
922, AS IF HE OR SHE WERE TRANSFERRING THE FIREARM FROM HIS OR HER
INVENTORY TO THE PROSPECTIVE TRANSFEREE

[Circuits]

In this thread we see who has no idea of the requirements of a FFL.
It's not semantics, it is law.
A- A FFL cannot lawfully "Transfer" an asset unless it is logged into their books.

The only thing most FFLs get wrong is that the asset is not required to be entered into their books for them to initiate a private party sale background check.

It only goes in the book if the transfer is approved, then it goes on the book and immediately off the book to the transferee. If the sale is delayed or denied, the FFL just notes that it was an incomplete private party sale background check on the 4473, which must be retained for 20 years per regulations. See ATF Procedure 2017-1 and read the back of the 4473 for full instructions.