"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[Justin]

I read this kind of statement and have to wonder how long is "long term"? The model S only started shipping in late 2012.

The additional cost of electric vs. ICE often takes many years (sometimes around 10) to ever recover the purchase price difference. Now that the US is a net exporter of oil, gas prices are remaining reasonable. A Nissan Leaf avg. sale price is $28,683 and an ICE Versa is $13,932. At $2.50/gallon, that's about 5,900 gallons (546 fill-ups) worth of cost difference.

Oil changes/filters are not what they used to be with modern synthetic oils (often annual/10K miles).

Cost per mile with electric is still cheaper than gas, even at $2.50, assuming you aren't super charging, which you won't do for 95% of the time. I'm not sure where you're getting 10,000 miles between oil changes. I can tell you that my car is supposed to get them every 3,000, and the idiot light on the dash comes on promptly at 5,000.

On top of that, with an EV there's no need for all of the regular maintance that shows up at 60k, 120k, etc. miles. There's no valves or spark plugs or any of that other stuff. Brake jobs are much fewer and far between due to the fact that the brakes see much less wear due to regenerative braking.

The other thing I have to wonder is what is the comparative mileage on the Teslas vs. ICE vehicles? I could see the mileage limitations and charge times of EV keeping average mileage lower. There's also likely much more down time for repeated recharging vs. annual ICE servicing.

Charge times aren't an issue for any situation outside of a long-range trip. Most EV owners have a charging station installed at home and they just plug in the car when they get home from work and it charges overnight, so it's not like the average EV owner is standing around waiting on their vehicle to charge. I would expect that most EV owners spend way less time waiting around at a super charger than an ICE owner spends standing around at gas stations in a given year for this very reason.

EVs are often heavier than ICE due to the batteries. The electric motors also have quite a bit of torque. What is the delta on tire wear between EVs and ICE?

Would love to see some real statistics that aren't coming from the Church of Tesla.

I've seen no indication that EVs have faster tire wear than ICE vehicles. I would expect that as long as you aren't launching from every red light in Ludicrous mode that tire wear between EVs and ICE cars is probably comparable.

[Gman]

Seven month long thread says otherwise.

Really glad you like your car but the evangelizing is likely turning more people off than on.

Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.

My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.

If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.

[Irving]

Justin, if you buy good oil, and your before doesn't leak or burn oil, 10,000 miles is very do-able. I think we were discussing it in the PWT, where you don't hang out, but I was on a 5,000 mile schedule for oil changes in my van. I got behind and changed at 7,200. Before I did I checked the dipstick to see if I was leaking or burning. To my surprise, not only was the level fine, but the oil was still half golden. I've changed the oil in my Amigo at only 2,000 miles and it was completely black. Once I saw that, I switched to a 10,000 mile schedule. I took a picture of the dipstick. My van had 230,000 miles at the time.

I'll let Gman tell you about the factory vehicles that call for a 10k schedule.

[Justin]

Meh. Your statements are just as biased as theirs. One might say if their head is in the sand, yours is in the clouds.

The statements that "Multiple studies have shown that Total Cost of Ownership of a Tesla is lower over the long term than comparable ICE-powered vehicles." Is completely open to interpretation so much so it sounds like propaganda to me.

Ev technology is really neat. I personally hope it continues to evolve, especially the application of semis. However it's not anywhere near where it needs to be for me to consider putting my money into it.

I fail to see how the TCO for a Tesla being less than a comparable ICE-powered car could be anything but fact. Cost per mile driven for electricity is less than gasoline, and EVs don't have a ton of moving parts or the required regular maintenance to keep them going.

But whatever, for reference, here's the maintenance Tesla recommends for their vehicles:

https://www.tesla.com/support/car-maintenance

Car Maintenance
Tesla engineers continuously review maintenance recommendations to optimize the performance, reliability, durability, safety and resell value of your Tesla.

Unlike gasoline cars, Tesla cars require no traditional oil changes, fuel filters, spark plug replacements or emission checks. As electric cars, even brake pad replacements are rare because regenerative braking returns energy to the battery, significantly reducing wear on brakes.

Please check your Owner’s Manual for latest maintenance recommendations for your Tesla.

Recommended Maintenance Service
Cabin Air Filter
Your Tesla is equipped with an air filter that prevents pollen, industrial fallout, road dust and other particles from entering through the vents. Tesla recommends replacing your cabin air filter every 2 years.

High Efficiency Particulate Air (HEPA) Filter
If your Tesla is equipped with a HEPA filter, Tesla recommends replacing it every 3 years.

Tire Rotation, Balance and Wheel Alignment
Tesla recommends checking your tires every 10,000-12,000 miles for rotating, balancing and aligning needs. Aggressive driving can lead to premature tire wear and may require more frequent tire service. Unbalanced and misaligned wheels affect handling, tire life and steering components. Refer to tire manufacturer's owner manuals and warranty documentation for additional details.

Brake Fluid Test
Tesla recommends testing brake fluid for contamination every 2 years and replacing as needed.

Air Conditioning Service
An air conditioning service replaces the desiccant to help the longevity and efficiency of the air conditioning system. Tesla recommends an air conditioning service every 2 years for Model S, every 4 years for Model X and every 6 years for Model 3.

Winter Care
Tesla recommends cleaning and lubricating all brake calipers every 12 months or 12,500 mi for cars in cold weather regions.

Schedule Maintenance Service
Schedule a maintenance service appointment in the Tesla app.

[Justin]

Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.

My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.

If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.

Not sure what you mean by no data. Tesla vehicles have had a ton of data compiled on them by multiple parties ranging from studies and metastudies to user-reported information down to individual vehicles.

Here's an article about the highest-mileage Tesla on the roads:
https://insideevs.com/news/339110/hi...-420000-miles/

Here's a link to a leaderboard for highest mileage Tesla vehicles:
https://sites.google.com/view/teslamiles

Here's a website where you can punch in costs of electricity, gas, and how far you drive and get an idea of the cost delta:
https://teslanomics.co/tesla-monthly...st-calculator/

There's other sources of data as well, if you're willing to look.

[Justin]

Seems more like a religion than anything, including the "revelation". There's a lot of supposition, but no data.

My comparison in breaking even on the increased cost of going EV vs. ICE didn't even question the cost of charging. Any cost to charging extends the time from initial purchase difference to break-even.

If you're not aware of newer vehicles with 10K/1-year service cycles, that's not my fault.

You'll have to forgive me, I'm not the sort of person who enjoys assidiously studying the oil change requirements for vehicles that I don't own.

[Gman]

You'll have to forgive me, I'm not the sort of person who enjoys assidiously studying the oil change requirements for vehicles that I don't own.

Oh...the irony.

[Bailey Guns]

Both my diesels go to between 7k and 8k on oil changes. The oil changes, at least for what I own (an F250 and a Cruze), are determined by an idiot msg in the driver information system. Both GM and Ford say to just schedule the oil change when the car tells you it's around 10% left.

[MrPrena]

Are good USED Tesla w/reliable battery under 15k yet?
If they do free super charging station thing, I will be interested after i get the llc set up near future.

[Zundfolge]

The oil changes, at least for what I own (an F250 and a Cruze), are determined by an idiot msg in the driver information system. Both GM and Ford say to just schedule the oil change when the car tells you it's around 10% left.

Keep in mind that if you have any GDI engine you should really be changing the oil every 5000 miles regardless of what the idiot msg in the driver info system says. At least until may of next year when the new GF-6A oil hits the market.