California Prop 8 Overturned By Openly Gay Judge

[Ranger]

If the only reason people do not do evil is because of their religion, then that is a pretty weak set of morals.

Ahh, but I would disagree with you there. Morals come from SOMEWHERE, we didn't wake up and think "It's wrong to kill someone", society through religion can help us build those morals. A good example would be in Muslim society where hand for a hand is still practiced, while we see it as barbaric in the west. I think religion has done a lot to build societal norms.

Religion is for expanding one's spirituality, and I see no need for that in government.

I agree. Government should not dictate religion in any way at all.

I think its more used as a "scapegoat" or a way to convince people to support a cause. "Hey, you're a Christian right? Well, any GOOD Christian would be for this. You want to be a GOOD Christian right?"

Being a good Catholic I understand Catholic guilt . However, while this can be used poorly it can also be used in a good way as well. "God says you'll burn in hell for murder" is a good societal scare, "God says you'll burn in hell for eating chocolate" maybe not so much.

So, I believe in God and I believe in Christianity and my beliefs teach me quite clearly that homosexuality is against His will - that is why I am against it. However, it also teaches me that we should forgive others for their transgressions, thus I believe that what they do is their business and since we were given free will then that choice is theirs to make.

[Irving]

Plus, whether your burn in hell or not is none of the government's or anyone's business. Let the government put a "sin tax" on gay marriage and those fuckers will be all for the idea.

[Byte Stryke]

A good example would be in Muslim society where hand for a hand is still practiced, while we see it as barbaric in the west. I think religion has done a lot to build societal norms.

I must apologize, but I find it ironic that a "Good Catholic" calls one of a differing faith Barbaric, considering the amount of blood that has been shed in the name of God and Church. I'm Not trying to bust your balls for it or anything I just found it ironic.

I am not Muslim, or Catholic or Christian or anything. My Faith is mine alone and I refuse to tie it to a church doctrine that will change with the wind.
A Good example would be Some churches policies on Gays in Religion.... Ive seen Pancakes that flip less.

my 2cents

[Hoosier]

Government has zero business defining what "marriage" is. Everyone should be able to enter into a legally binding contract with someone else, and expect the government to enforce it. If people want to enter a contract and label it "marriage", more power to them. As long as they are legally consenting adults, and are not causing material harm to anyone else, who cares? Remember the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

H.

[DeusExMachina]

Government has zero business defining what "marriage" is. Everyone should be able to enter into a legally binding contract with someone else, and expect the government to enforce it. If people want to enter a contract and label it "marriage", more power to them. As long as they are legally consenting adults, and are not causing material harm to anyone else, who cares? Remember the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

H.

Aaaaand I think we're done here.

[Ranger]

Aaaaand I think we're done here.

I think that happened a LONG time ago .

[Ranger]

I must apologize, but I find it ironic that a "Good Catholic" calls one of a differing faith Barbaric, considering the amount of blood that has been shed in the name of God and Church. I'm Not trying to bust your balls for it or anything I just found it ironic.

I am not Muslim, or Catholic or Christian or anything. My Faith is mine alone and I refuse to tie it to a church doctrine that will change with the wind.
A Good example would be Some churches policies on Gays in Religion.... Ive seen Pancakes that flip less.

my 2cents

And that happened when? Versus when Muslims took a hand, when? I didn't say or even elude to the fact that religion hasn't had it's fair share of problems, but that the GOOD of the religion is many times what has driven societal norm. I am no denier, I know full well what the Catholic church has done in it's past.

It's funny how the past is "ancient history and irrelevant" when it doesn't support a view one has, but is "completely relevant" when it DOES. Case in point, so many people I know will talk about how sick they are of blacks crying slavery or jews crying holocaust, both of which are far more recent history than the inquisition or Queen Mary.

While priests have been guilty of grave sins in recent history (less than 1% of all priests get 100% of the bad press by the way), I don't think we burned someone at the stake for witchcraft or racked someone for opposing views in some time (and never of either in America - that would be the Quakers).

And yes, SOME churches (Episcopalians) have "changed with the wind" but the Catholic church is far less flexibile in it's doctrines than some other churches are and I can rest assured they will not recognize gay marriage any day soon.

If I'm a bit defensive about my beliefs then I apologize in advance, but it's what I believe in and one shoe most certainly does not fit all and I'm not trying to convince others to believe what I believe, I just simply state my opinion.

[Byte Stryke]

And that happened when? Versus when Muslims took a hand, when? I didn't say or even elude to the fact that religion hasn't had it's fair share of problems, but that the GOOD of the religion is many times what has driven societal norm. I am no denier, I know full well what the Catholic church has done in it's past.

It's funny how the past is "ancient history and irrelevant" when it doesn't support a view one has, but is "completely relevant" when it DOES. Case in point, so many people I know will talk about how sick they are of blacks crying slavery or jews crying holocaust, both of which are far more recent history than the inquisition or Queen Mary.

While priests have been guilty of grave sins in recent history (less than 1% of all priests get 100% of the bad press by the way), I don't think we burned someone at the stake for witchcraft or racked someone for opposing views in some time (and never of either in America - that would be the Quakers).

And yes, SOME churches (Episcopalians) have "changed with the wind" but the Catholic church is far less flexibile in it's doctrines than some other churches are and I can rest assured they will not recognize gay marriage any day soon.

If I'm a bit defensive about my beliefs then I apologize in advance, but it's what I believe in and one shoe most certainly does not fit all and I'm not trying to convince others to believe what I believe, I just simply state my opinion.

Please do not take any of that as a personal attack... it was intended to point out the flaws in labeling.

and as far as a "ancient history and irrelevant".
have ya seen the news lately? Yeah the Muslims are still a tad pissed about it and they are blaming Jews and Christians.
Germany? Still illegal to be a national socialist (Nazi) or to bear any emblem, mark or symbolism of that party.

So while I Can completely understand your position in regards to your faith, I find a few things extremely offensive.
The US Cavalry, The Washington Redskins, Cleveland Indians, Jeep Cherokees, etc on and on.
Because, while it might be Ancient history to some, Genocide is still Genocide and it's wrong.

sarcasm ahead....
Can you imagine the outrage there would be if we had a team called the Atlanta ******s? or how about the California slopes? Boston Paddys?
My Personal favorite would have to be the New York Kikes.

[Anton]

Can you imagine the outrage there would be if we had a team called the Atlanta ******s?

Is that a basketball team?

[Ranger]

sarcasm ahead....
Can you imagine the outrage there would be if we had a team called the Atlanta ******s? or how about the California slopes? Boston Paddys?
My Personal favorite would have to be the New York Kikes.

I don't think these would work. Nor would the San Francisco Queers.