finally some sense about global warming

[spyder]

With that, this will be the last time I am gona visit this thread. Anyone can argue anything they want and have the right to believe anyone they want, eveyone knows that. Personally I will follow what makes common sense and has been proven again and again and again. If that means that I am in the same boat as whoever you point out, that is fine. Don't forget to name the worlds smartest and brightest people as the "idiots that believe" though also.

[c3d4b2]

We have less than 40 years of global data that can be considered scientifically accurate

There seems to be some questions being raised on the accuracy of the data that has been collected.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/...mategate-data/

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/climate...cably-tainted/

[cstone]

Chomsky and McGibben???

One is a self described anarchist, libertarian socialist who has an impressive background in linquistics and the other is a "green journalist" with zero scientific education. Chomsky picks on Rush Limbaugh (who I admit has no scientific background), but neither does Chomsky.

Honestly, I find the discussion on this board and by others who have more scientific training more informative than listening to Chomsky, McGibben, or Limbaugh.

I guess I will just continue making the best possible decisions I can based on both the information I have available and within my economic means.

Thanks for the lively discussion.

[weirjf]

With that, this will be the last time I am gona visit this thread. Anyone can argue anything they want and have the right to believe anyone they want, eveyone knows that. Personally I will follow what makes common sense and has been proven again and again and again. If that means that I am in the same boat as whoever you point out, that is fine. Don't forget to name the worlds smartest and brightest people as the "idiots that believe" though also.

You'll forgive me if I don't bother watching the rest of the rantings of an "Author and Activist"

sounds like an ELF whacko

[DOC]

Its like believing Al Gore invented the internet? He may have pushed Global Warming hystaria and even made some money of those that believe him but he didn't invent it either. He just showed up to take credit and hope no body finds out he's a fraud as a human being.

[DeusExMachina]

Al Gore never said that he "invented" the Internet; Gore actually said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."[250][251] Gore was the original drafter of the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991, which provided significant funding for supercomputing centers, and this in turn led to upgrades of a major part of the already existing, early 1990s Internet backbone, the NSFNet, and development of NCSA Mosaic, the browser that popularized the World Wide Web; see Al Gore and information technology.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Noam Chomsky is a raving lunatic -- and I say that with all due respect for his studies in linguistics. He ignores or doesn't know about scientists like Freeman Dyson, Roger Pielke Sr., Roy Spencer, John Christy and the ever growing numbers of scientists rejecting the IPCC AR4 -- including authors and contributors decrying the blatant manipulation, after-the-fact edits and distortions in the report. Even Judith Curry -- who is still a proponent of the AGW hypothesis -- is appalled at how Schmidt, Jones, Mann et al have distorted the scientific process.

By the way, these graphics should help show the dangers of drawing conclusions from poorly chosen time frames:





If you look at the period 2002-2009, you see a distinct if small decline in the slope. Look at the period 1993-2010 and it's just a blip in a steady upward slope. From 1979-2010, the slope is still upward but not as dramatic.

A simple analogy is to Friday's temperatures. If I measure from Tuesday or Wednesday, we had a dramatic warming. If I measure from a week prior, things cooled down quite a bit. All of which points to the old saw about the last 1, 10, 40 years being weather while the last 1000, 4000, 10000 years is climate.

Now look at one of the original paleo-climate reconstructions:



You can see here that we have a LOT of room to grow before even nearing the peak of the Medieval Warm Period (when grapes grew in Greenland). You also see that the recent warming 1) looks to be part of a natural cycle with the last maxima around AD 1150-1200 and the minima around AD 1650. By the way, notice the little hump at the end? That's the little warming of the 1930s followed by a later small cool period (which is why AGW proponents often like to baseline to around 1970).

This German page expands on the MWP to show it was a global phenomenon (contrary to Schmidt and Mann's latest attempts to rewrite history by calling it a regional phenomena):

http://pages.science-skeptical.de/MW...armPeriod.html

The link is an interactive graphic that shows scientific studies and reconstructions from all over the world. Click on a reference and it will take you to the original report.

See also http://www.co2science.org/index.php where you can get another interactive map of studies at http://www.co2science.org/data/timemap/mwpmap.html.

This graphic shows how Antarctica has THICKENED in recent years:



while this one purports to demonstrate that tropospheric temperatures are linked more strongly with solar activity than CO2:



I happen to agree with the above thesis since we literally SAW the Earth's atmosphere warm and expand in 1989 due to 3 near-simultaneous solar flares. The amount of energy contained in those flares -- the energy needed to perturb the Earth's magnetic field and expand the atmosphere -- literally dwarfs any manmade effects. What you can't see in any of those graphs is how CO2 content seems to lag temperature changes (the inverse of the AGW hypothesis) as stated in http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/2...lacial-cycles/ and this graphic:



But what you CAN see in this graphic:



is how much warmer AND how much higher CO2 was in the distant past -- not that I'd enjoy things 18 degrees (F) warmer than what we get today but life DID go on.

To answer the old Army SFC, don't worry, be happy. Worry more about sustainable energy because dependence on Mideast Oil is a national security issue and how burning fossil fuels can affect the local environment like increased mercury content in fish. Environmental activists protested the dolphin slaughter in Taiji, Japan (see "The Cove") for a long time but what seems to have really swayed some of the Japanese has been the threat of mercury poisoning from dolphin meat. Personally, I just can't see killing and eating Flipper but 2000 ppm (versus the FDA "safe" certification of 0.4 ppm) might make you think twice even if you look at Flipper like I look at Elsie the cow.

Worry about local pollution, excessive and unnecessary use of plastic packaging, overfishing of sea stocks and future supply of potable water. All those are very real issues and ones we can do something about because the human effects in these cases are indisputable.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Originally Posted by List of common misconceptions
Al Gore never said that he "invented" the Internet; Gore actually said, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."[250][251] Gore was the original drafter of the High Performance Computing and Communication Act of 1991, which provided significant funding for supercomputing centers, and this in turn led to upgrades of a major part of the already existing, early 1990s Internet backbone, the NSFNet, and development of NCSA Mosaic, the browser that popularized the World Wide Web; see Al Gore and information technology.

Sorry, that's a big fail. ARPANET which was renamed DARPANET and later the Internet was created in the 1960s. Heck, we were calling it an Internet in the 1980s. Ask Tim Berners-Lee just how much influence Al Gore or the HPCCA had in the development of Mosaic.

While satirists stretched Al Gore's statement (as they have done to politicians of all stripes for time immemorial), his actual statement "took the initiative in creating the Internet" was patently false. It -- and the TCP/IP protocols -- existed long before his legislation.

[cstone]

Aloha Shooter, you sir make a most convincing case. I grant you the title of Subject Matter Expert (SME). That, and a buck fifty will buy you a cup of coffee.

Thank you for the information, and to all of the rest of you, the lively discussion. I consider myself better informed and therefore a better man.