Train!

[mcantar18c]

And how many john doe ccw holders actually go past doing as little as possible to obtain their ccw?
I am in favor and advocate something other than sitting on your ass for 2-3 hours to get a CCW. Yet i read time and time again here and other gun boards. ITS A RIGHT WE SHOULD BE ISSUED A CCW AND NOT HAVE TO TAKE ANY CLASS!!!
So many folks choose the path of least resistance to get what they want and will do nothing to hone their skills after getting that coveted permit.
I agree TRAIN, TRAIN, TRAIN, you will never get enough trigger time and (as i agree with you) confidence until you do.
With that being said unless i was there , not armchair qb'ing, i cannot in clear conscience say i would have taken the shot.

On one hand, we as both citizens and free men have a God given and Constitutionally protected right to bear arms.
On the other hand, walking around with a weapon and no serious training on how to use it is just plain stupid.
Your average CCW holder is nothing more than a sheep in wolf's clothing... if they want to take the class, get the permit, and arm themselves, they have the legal right to do so, and that is something I won't argue. However, I for one will hold them morally accountable if they are in a position to help their fellow man and can't because they are too incompetent to do so.

On taking the shot... well, we've all made our differing opinions about this known. You know where I stand, I know where you stand.

[cstone]

When was this set up?
I asked if we had a set date in the Shooting Challenge (or whatever it was called) thread and got no response.
Either way, I can't make it. As I said in that thread I need to know about things a week and a half in advance to request off work, and in any case I will be in Cortez this weekend shooting things with these guys...
http://www.suarezinternationalstore....cortez-co.aspx

Here is the link:

http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...eferrerid=3409

It was also posted in the Pistol Challenge and Funny Story threads.

Maybe we will shoot it again in the future.

I read the Suarez article you linked. The point I took from his piece is that we all have an obligation to do something. What you would do or I would do, would not necessarily be the same thing that he would do. We all make choices in any given circumstance. The same can be said of the training in which we participate. Time, and resources are not unlimited for anyone. We all choose to prioritize our training time in ways we see fit. Personally, I do not spend much time practicing low probability scenarios. Based on my understanding of real world shootings and previous training I have received, I spend much more of my time working on skills which I believe will benefit me in higher probability scenarios, both in likelihood of occurring and chances of me succeeding. Obviously you are free to pursue your own training for whatever purposes you see fit.

Its all good.

Oh, and for the record, I don't believe there is a direct, provable relationship between good on the range with good on the street. Some of the best have bad days and bad guys with no training sometimes get lucky. That isn't an excuse to not train, but it is a reminder that even the best training is not a guaranty of success. Murphy's Law will not be defied.

I will try to post up some general results in the Swagler's Challenge thread this weekend. I'm pretty certain that regardless of the results, we will have a good time shooting.

[mcantar18c]

I didn't even see that thread... I've been following the one that was posted in GD (I think it was Graves that posted it). Must have missed the date. I'll have to wait till next time, definitely wish I could be there.

Of course all of the training time in the world can't guarantee you'll succeed on the street... everybody has bad days, no argument there. But quality (and continual) training will without a doubt raise your chances exponentially.

Definitely post the results of the shoot.
Mindset is everything... replace "This is difficult, I don't know if I can do it" with "Other people can do it, so I must be able to too," and you might be surprised at how well you perform.

[cstone]

Mindset is everything... replace "This is difficult, I don't know if I can do it" with "Other people can do it, so I must be able to too," and you might be surprised at how well you perform.

The slogans Aim High, The Few The Proud, The Marines, Army of One, Be All You Can Be, The Power of Positive Thinking, etc... just bouncing around in my head. Reminds me of a very young man I once knew when he was sitting in the Army Recruiter's Office oh so many years ago

At this point in my life I live by the slogan; I'd rather be lucky than good.

Be safe citizen

[Ronin13]

The slogans Aim High, The Few The Proud, The Marines, Army of One, Be All You Can Be, The Power of Positive Thinking, etc... just bouncing around in my head. Reminds me of a very young man I once knew when he was sitting in the Army Recruiter's Office oh so many years ago

At this point in my life I live by the slogan; I'd rather be lucky than good.

Be safe citizen

My friend made me a picture on Photo shop with a Multi cam background and a funny picture asking "How strong is army strong? How sham is SHAMtastic?"

[Bailey Guns]

I read the Gabe Suarez piece. Frankly, I think he's full of shit and his reasoning and conclusions are flawed.

Sounds more like an ad for Joe Citizen to get training and a pitch for his custom Glock slides with red dots than serious reflection.

[Great-Kazoo]

I read the Gabe Suarez piece. Frankly, I think he's full of shit and his reasoning and conclusions are flawed.

Sounds more like an ad for Joe Citizen to get training and a pitch for his custom Glock slides with red dots than serious reflection.

you mean someone would actually have a motive other than training for their business, like pitching their products??
Dude you're harshing my mellow.

[Bailey Guns]

I don't have a problem with pitching your product. But why try to disguise it in an article on a mass shooting? Just be honest. Oh, wait...were talking about Gabe Suarez:

Former Officer Pleads Guilty to Fraud Charges

By Teresa Rochester

Sept. 27 -- A former Santa Monica police officer has pleaded guilty to Workers Compensation fraud, money laundering and grand theft and will begin serving a year-long jail sentence for the crimes next week.

Gabriel Saurez, a decorated 12-year veteran of the SMPD, will report to Los Angeles County Jail to begin serving his sentence on Monday as part of a plea agreement reached last week in Los Angeles County Criminal Court. Saurez, who recently resigned from the force, also was sentenced to five years probation.

Saurez, his wife Cheryl Saurez and Officer Jason Comer pleaded not guilty in April to charges of conspiracy, Workers Compensation fraud and grand theft. Saurez also faced two additional fraud charges.

Like her husband, Cheryl Saurez agreed to plea guilty during last Friday's hearing. She was ordered to serve one day in jail and also was sentenced to five years probation.

Comer's charges were dropped in June, and he remains on paid leave pending the conclusion of an administrative investigation, according to Police Chief James T. Butts Jr.

As part of the agreement, the charges of conspiracy against the Suarezes were dismissed, as were the two additional counts of Workers Compensation filed against Gabriel Saurez, said DA spokesperson Sandi Gibbons.

The Saurezes paid a $100 fine and $112, 250.01 in restitution on Friday, according to Deputy Dist. Atty. Ellen St. John.

Chief Butts said Saurez's plea was a testament to the "hard work, time and effort that the risk management and our criminal division officers have put into this case.

"The good thing is the City of Santa Monica has received full restitution for all wages that were paid in this fraudulent claim," Butts said. "The jail sentence that was imposed by the judge sent a strong message that this type of misconduct will not be tolerated by the City of Santa Monica,"

Gabriel Suarez allegedly worked as a gun tactics trainer while receiving Workers Compensation for a slip and fall accident in the SMPD's locker room in 1999. Cheryl Suarez allegedly received payments for work done by her husband through a company she never worked for. The dismissed charges against Comer were based on allegations that he received and disbursed money for Saurez.

The Saurez case stemmed from a long-term investigation of Workers Compensation fraud within the police department launched late last year by the department, the District Attorneys Office and the State Department of Insurance.

The investigation also has resulted in charges filed against Officer Richard Robert Brulato, who pleaded not guilty in June to two counts of Workers Compensation Fraud.

Butts said the investigation is "definitely ongoing.

"We have other cases we are actively looking at and investigating. Fortunately at this point those cases are few," said Butts adding that they would be vigorously pursued.

Copyright ©1999, 2000, 2001 surfsantamonica.com. All Rights Reserved.

I don't have a hard-on for Gabe or anything, I just don't like his style.

[mcantar18c]

I read the Gabe Suarez piece. Frankly, I think he's full of shit and his reasoning and conclusions are flawed.

Sounds more like an ad for Joe Citizen to get training and a pitch for his custom Glock slides with red dots than serious reflection.

TSD is not the only company that makes aftermarket slides, nor are they the first to put a red dot on a handgun. In the article he mentioned how effective that setup can be, which is absolutely true. He didn't say "my red dot guns are better than anyone else's and you need to buy it."
It'd be the equivalent of Magpul writing a similar article and saying something about how useful BUIS's are, or EOTech making a reference to cowitnessing.

I don't have a problem with pitching your product. But why try to disguise it in an article on a mass shooting? Just be honest. Oh, wait...were talking about Gabe Suarez:

[INDENT] Former Officer Pleads Guilty to Fraud Charges

By Teresa Rochester

I seriously doubt that's the only side to that story, especially considering the sentences... $100 fine sounds pretty low considering. I don't know the backstory, but I do know that there was some kind of personal issues going on in that dept. at the time.

[mcantar18c]

Now, on the subject of training... someone mentioned this (a Systema instructor) and I think it might be worth trying.
Do an intense workout before training, and then when you train, focus on your form... your draw, mag changes, etc. The idea is that your body, being sore and all, will tend to do things in the most efficient motions it can, and the training will make those efficient motions come natural to you.