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Originally Posted by Mick-Boy
and I know plenty of people that carry .25 .32.and .380 that would not be optimal for such a fight.
these calibers are geared more towards close range defensive.
as I Said, I'm not trying to "Go Anywhere" with it.
Just a simple question
The guy in the IHOP shooting wasn't targeting anyone specifically, he was going for body count (as is the norm for these "active shooter" scenarios). If he had a select fire weapon, why wouldn't he just spray at the folks in IHOP? As has been pointed out by other folks here, these guys get most of their firearms experience from video games, its not like he's going to put a short burst into target A and then repeat with target B when he can go full auto.
So no, I wasn't joking.
Get the job done of stopping the threat. IMO if a carry gun isn't capable of effectively stopping a threat behind cover (shooting through a car door and then into the attacker, for example), then it isn't suitable to carry. No, a 9mm isn't too small for this... a .25ACP is.
Well....nevermind.
"There are no finger prints under water."
Where does that leave those of us with disabilities who are unable to do much of anything physically? Do you go through this workout before work, walking out the door, getting out of you car ? Regarding the focus aspect tunnel vision over rides what ever you have "trained" for.
I'm not practicing to be a UFC fighter, nor is almost anyone i have taught CCW to one either. The majority of CCW folks are average citizens who have gone to the next step for personal defense. I mentioned before, doing 1 gun class does not you a master make, practice, practice, practice, then do it again.
We have touched on the CCW gun said person may have been carrying. Some folks feel a .22lr is better than nothing and what they can afford at the moment. Does that make them weak or less likely to stop a threat, not at all. With confidence anyone can stop a threat, the level they are willing to go at that time is up to them.
Screw bravado, macho posturing, saying "I would have done this", we were not there nor was GS. I've seen some of the toughest MF%^&*ers piss their pants when the chips were down, while miss goodie 2 shoes did what was necessary to stop the threat.
Steel Shoot saturday morning, for those that can make it, will cull the herd.
Out of curiosity exactly how old are you?
The Ak47 used in the IHOP shooting
The AK was full auto, I just looked into it for a bit and found out it was. So now are you going to pull your CCG on a maniac with a full auto AK47, I dont think so. Even if I had this in a shoulder rig I would still have to be there to know what I would have done.
Byte, I have looked pretty hard for any information on the make and model on either weapon and come up empty. It will come out eventually. There are several good lists found on the internet listing weapons used in noteworthy killings throughout history.
Just like all of the endless discussions regarding caliber, I figured this would go toward another unending discussion about what would be the best defensive handgun to deal with this type of situation.
After the fact, it doesn't matter. One guy chose an AK and the other guy had a pistol. One guy was hell bent on killing people and the other guy made his decisions based on what he thought best at the time. If the guy who was hell bent on killing people had been armed with a pistol and Swagler had an AK, there still are no guarantees that the outcome would have been any different. You have what you bring.
The seemingly endless hindsight debates (and this isn't specific to this board, but the numerous blogs both anti-gun and pro-gun who use these tragedies to support their cause) are full of people who think they will do things better if or when they are ever confronted with one of these situations. We can train, and that helps. We can mentally prepare, and that helps. We can research and equip ourselves to the best of our individual abilities. In the end, no one knows what they will do until that time comes. The people I know who have been through this, live with their decisions and none of them are the same person they were before. Some live better with their decisions than others. I hope for the people on this board who have been there, they find peace with their decisions. For those that have not yet been there, I hope you can reserve judgment until you have stood in another person's shoes and seen it from that perspective.
Be safe citizens.
Could you provide the source or link for that information? Thank you.
I just googled the ak47 used in the IHOP shooting and came across a forum it was on. And every one kept saying it was automatic gunfire they heard and the sheriff also said it was automatic.
A full auto weapon isn't a fire hose and there's always more air than meat. Someone who "just sprays at folks" is much more likely to have a lower body count than a higher.
We went through this in the 9mm vs. 45 thread but I'll say it again here. Pistols suck as fight stoppers. Nothing that is man portable can stop a threat guaranteed.Get the job done of stopping the threat. IMO if a carry gun isn't capable of effectively stopping a threat behind cover (shooting through a car door and then into the attacker, for example), then it isn't suitable to carry. No, a 9mm isn't too small for this... a .25ACP is.
Shooting a threat behind cover is a job for a rifle and a good barrier blind projectile.
For that matter, shooting a threat at 65M is a job for a rifle too.
Armchair quarterbacking a fight is gay.
Mick-Boy
"Men who carry rifles for a living do not seek reward outside the guild. The most cherished gift...is a nod from his peers."
nsrconsulting.net
Well said
Well put, cstone.
My wild oats are turning into prunes and All Bran
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