National CCW reciprocity bill clears House panel

[Inconel710]

It's amazing to me how many people on the Internet believe what ever scare mongering BS they hear, but never bother to check the FACTS. If you ever want to find out what's really in a bill www.thomas.gov is your source. If you go there and search for the bill HR 822 you'll find there are no magazine restrictions included, no assault weapons ban, no study of internet gun sales or any of this other BS running around. Now I understand some folks get all their exercise by jumping to conclusions and making ASSumptions, but please check the facts every now and then. You'll be able to save your tin foil for cooking.

For everyone too lazy to click on the link above, here's the text of HR 822 as of today 30 Oct. 2011.

112th CONGRESS 1st Session
H. R. 822
To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES February 18, 2011

Mr. STEARNS (for himself and Mr. SHULER) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary
A BILL To amend title 18, United States Code, to provide a national standard in accordance with which nonresidents of a State may carry concealed firearms in the State.

• Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

• This Act may be cited as the `National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011'.

SEC. 2. FINDINGS.The Congress finds the following:

• • (1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States protects the fundamental right of an individual to keep and bear arms, including for purposes of individual self-defense.

• • (2) The Supreme Court of the United States has recognized this right in the case of District of Columbia v. Heller, and in the case of McDonald v. City of Chicago, has recognized that the right is protected against State infringement by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

• • (3) The Congress has the power to pass legislation to protect against infringement of all rights protected under the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

• • (4) The right to bear arms includes the right to carry arms for self-defense and the defense of others.

• • (5) The Congress has enacted legislation of national scope authorizing the carrying of concealed firearms by qualified active and retired law enforcement officers.

• • (6) Forty-eight States provide by statute for the issuance to individuals of permits to carry concealed firearms, or allow the carrying of concealed firearms for lawful purposes without the need for a permit.

• • (7) The overwhelming majority of individuals who exercise the right to carry firearms in their own States and other States have proven to be law-abiding, and such carrying has been demonstrated to provide crime prevention or crime resistance benefits for the licensees and for others.

• • (8) The Congress finds that preventing the lawful carrying of firearms by individuals who are traveling outside their home State interferes with the constitutional right of interstate travel, and harms interstate commerce.

• • (9) Among the purposes of this Act is the protection of the rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to a citizen of the United States by the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

• • (10) The Congress, therefore, should provide for national recognition, in States that issue to their own citizens licenses or permits to carry concealed handguns, of other State permits or licenses to carry concealed handguns.

SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

• (a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

`Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

• `(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--

• • `(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

• • `(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

• `(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.

• `(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.

• `(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.'.

• (b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:

• • `926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.'.

• (c) Severability- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, if any provision of this section, or any amendment made by this section, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, this section and amendments made by this section and the application of such provision or amendment to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

• (d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

[ChunkyMonkey]

It's amazing to me how many people on the Internet believe what ever scare mongering BS they hear, but never bother to check the FACTS. If you ever want to find out what's really in a bill www.thomas.gov is your source. If you go there and search for the bill HR 822 you'll find there are no magazine restrictions included, no assault weapons ban, no study of internet gun sales or any of this other BS running around. Now I understand some folks get all their exercise by jumping to conclusions and making ASSumptions, but please check the facts every now and then. You'll be able to save your tin foil for cooking.

For everyone too lazy to click on the link above, here's the text of HR 822 as of today 30 Oct. 2011.

If you read correctly, everyone's concern is about Federal takeover. Dept. education started from a simple bill of standardized test so your State funded college diploma is good for 50 States too.

[Monky]

But anything they give us is bad...! Money for Roadways, education, parks... Oh god... they must have cameras set up at Pawnee to put us all into a database!


OH THE HUGEMANATEE!

[ChunkyMonkey]

But anything they give us is bad...! Money for Roadways, education, parks... Oh god... they must have cameras set up at Pawnee to put us all into a database!


OH THE HUGEMANATEE!

You mean how the tax Dollars could have stayed in Colorado instead?

[SA Friday]

This is all moot. This passed a PANEL. It will never pass the house as a whole.

Personally, I hope it dies on the vine. Reciprocity covers all the states I want to travel to. The rest can die a slow and painful socialism death. Short of a few SCOTUS rulings, the federal government has shown since 1934 that when they involve themselves with firearms they will be restricting in nature. The only thing I want them doing when it comes to firearms is repeal the GCA and NFA. Then they can politely step out of ever restricting the 2nd again.

[Tweety Bird]

But anything they give us is bad...! Money for Roadways, education, parks... Oh god... they must have cameras set up at Pawnee to put us all into a database!


OH THE HUGEMANATEE!

The Sewer Rats of DC also gave us:

The TSA
The Patriot Act
The EPA
The IRS
The Department of Energy
The Department of Education
And on and on and on.

I'm not saying everything that all of these things do is bad (I'm sure I could find SOMETHING good in each of them if I looked hard enough, though the task might prove difficult).

But any time you set up a Federal program, the things that follow are huge bureaucracies that need more and more money, more and more people, more and more real estate and more and more legislation/red tape to justify their existence.

Remember what John Dingell said about healthcare reform. “The harsh fact of the matter is when you’re passing legislation that will cover 300 million American people in different ways, it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people.”

Bills like these are sort of like jobs programs for the Sewer Rats union.

I have read the bill. But I just don't trust 'em because once the law is in place, revisions become easy to do on the sly.

[SA Friday]

I have read the bill. But I just don't trust 'em because once the law is in place, revisions become easy to do on the sly.

they won't wait that long. By the time it will get to a vote, there will be at least a half dozen changes to it to appease hard votes to try to get it through the house and it simply will be another bill corrupted into something it wasn't meant to be.

Think about it... There are what five or six states with mag restrictions and the are not all the same amounts. How do you deal with this in this bill? There are at least two states with ammo restrictions too. Then there are training restrictions. So, is this bill going to address these differences? If it does, then I guarantee you it will involve restriction and not repeal. if I remember correctly, one or more states dictate that CCW guns have to be trained with and then designated the only gun they can CCW with and the serial number is on the permit and in state retained paperwork (NC if I remember right, but I could be wrong on that).

Not all states have the same CCW permit format. Will this bill address this? What will be standardized in a CCW permit to control forgery? This MUST be directive to the issuing states on CCW format. And while we are on the subject, will this standardize approval authorities? This scares me the most actually. Next thing you know all state CCW laws are null and void and this turns into a bill to make Dept of CCW offices in every state.

I just dont see this being left simplistic and non-intrusive.

[Inconel710]

they won't wait that long. By the time it will get to a vote, there will be at least a half dozen changes to it to appease hard votes to try to get it through the house and it simply will be another bill corrupted into something it wasn't meant to be.

They already tried amending the bill in committee and it failed. In the full House, at least, I don't think they'll be any more successful. The Senate is another problem, but I think we've got the votes to kill the thing it they are successful getting something heinous put into the bill.

Think about it... There are what five or six states with mag restrictions and the are not all the same amounts. How do you deal with this in this bill? There are at least two states with ammo restrictions too. Then there are training restrictions. So, is this bill going to address these differences? If it does, then I guarantee you it will involve restriction and not repeal. if I remember correctly, one or more states dictate that CCW guns have to be trained with and then designated the only gun they can CCW with and the serial number is on the permit and in state retained paperwork (NC if I remember right, but I could be wrong on that).

I know you say you read the bill, but it's clear to my reading that you will have to follow the CCW laws of the state you are in while carrying, just like you have to follow the driving laws. So if one state doesn't not permit carry while in a business that serves alcohol, you will have to honor that restriction. You're not getting a CCW in the state (like TX) so you're not required to pass their testing requirements - just like you don't have to take a driving test when you cross state lines. HR 822 says they have to honor your permit regardless of the differences in training requirements.

Not all states have the same CCW permit format. Will this bill address this? What will be standardized in a CCW permit to control forgery? This MUST be directive to the issuing states on CCW format. And while we are on the subject, will this standardize approval authorities? This scares me the most actually. Next thing you know all state CCW laws are null and void and this turns into a bill to make Dept of CCW offices in every state.

Not all states have the same drivers license format either. So far the bill is NOT directive. I expect, if it passes, the states will sort out standardization issues without federal help. Most states already accept other states CCW permits and there's no problems. NY, NJ, CA, MD, DC, CT, and MA will try to muck things up, but they'll still have to honor the law.

I just don't see this being left simplistic and non-intrusive.

Well, so far it IS simple and non-intrusive. Why not support the bill as written? Let your congress critter know how you feel and hope for the best.

Having lived in the People's Republic of Maryland, I would love to see this bill rammed up theirs and the District of Columbia's rear ends.