Is paramilitary training illegal?

[275RLTW]

Yeah? Where?



I got news for ya. The .mil doesn't have the market cornered on "room entry, team tactics, breaching". That's standard SWAT or even active shooter stuff that most street officers learn and can be found being taught at many civilian shooting schools in the country. Ever go to Thunder Ranch?

There are lots of LE or former LE guys teaching this that would disagree with your assertion that "they usually don't know what they're doing".

We've been down this road before.

Clint Smith's views on teaching civilians more than necessary is well known. If you forgot...he doesn't. Please let me know what schools are teaching "active shooter" to non sworn officers? I've never seen one that was worth a damn. I've seen what alot of the agencies are teaching and some are up on their tactics, others still think a circle in the middle of the room is a viable techique. Finally, since you haven't been in LE for a while, nor were you in the military (AF doesn't count for a viable source for tactics), let me clue you in. Directorate of Defense of Trade Controls. Look them up, call them, learn something. Why do you think everyone is requiring background checks for training courses nowadays? Why do you think some courses are not available for civilians? Why don't we see civilian shoothouses popping up like gun ranges do? Just because you WERE a cop doesn't mean you know what you are talking about. If teaching room clearing to every civilian was OK, then why doesn't your beloved NRA has a course out for it yet?

[Sharpienads]

AF doesn't count for a viable source for tactics

Really?

Pure ignorance.

[275RLTW]

Really?

Pure ignorance.

Nope. Even you Tac-P's don't run drills. Your weapon is your radio, not your trigger finger.

[Sharpienads]

Nope. Even you Tac-P's don't run drills. Your weapon is your radio, not your trigger finger.

Ok, you obviously know more about what the career field does than I do, so I won't argue with you.

[hollohas]

Please let me know what schools are teaching "active shooter" to non sworn officers? I've never seen one that was worth a damn.

Gunsite has many civilian classes teaching team tactics as well as multiple classes that spend time in the shoot house and force-on-force tactical training for pistol, carbine, rifle and shotgun.

[275RLTW]

Gunsite has many civilian classes teaching team tactics as well as multiple classes that spend time in the shoot house and force-on-force tactical training for pistol, carbine, rifle and shotgun.

Nothing wrong with force on force. In fact, I highly recommend it for everyone who carries. THe tactics they are teaching are again, defensive in nature. How to respond to an attack whe you have no other option. They are not offering a "shoothouse" course or similar to civilians.

There is nothing wrong with knowing or wanting to learn this stuff; just man up and enlist. You don't get to learn neurosurgery without going to med school... Too many people whine on the internet about not getting to learn the cool stuff when they can't get off the couch and put the time in like everyone else had to. I suppose their free training vouchers should come in the mail with thier food stamps too. Just because you consume oxygen doesn't mean you're entitled to have everything GIVEN to you. Some things you have to earn.

[SuperiorDG]

There is nothing wrong with knowing or wanting to learn this stuff; just man up and enlist.

I'm too old.

[hollohas]

They are not offering a "shoothouse" course or similar to civilians.

I think you better look again. Many of their civilian courses include time in their Fun House including 250 pistol, 350 pistol, Team tactics 4 Two, 260 shotgun, carbine classes and others..

[275RLTW]

I think you better look again. Many of their civilian courses include time in their Fun House including 250 pistol, 350 pistol, Team tactics 4 Two, 260 shotgun, carbine classes and others..

Been there, know some of the instructors, and know the POI. Again, they are teaching defensive tactics, not team entries and such.

[hollohas]

Been there, know some of the instructors, and know the POI. Again, they are teaching defensive tactics, not team entries and such.

You specifically said they do not offer shoot house classes to civilians. What do you call a two man team clearing a building room by room which contains "good guy" and " bad guy" targets? That is a shoot house.

Here's a bit of the description from the Team Tactic 4Two course which is just one of many courses that have shoot house training.

Do you and your loved one care to COMBINE your existing skills, and expand them into a team format?  “Then, Team Tactics 4 Two” is the class for you. 

Two Person Tactics takes shooting, moving and COMMUNICATING to a new level.  Our students learn safe gun-handling in confined spaces, assessing and reacting to multiple threats, covering fire, continuity of fire, cooperative movement, and ambush techniques.  Extensive “square range” work will be done in live fire drills on paper and steel targets to build your team’s skills.  These skills will then be applied in home invasion scenarios and car-jacking scenarios.  This course includes Force-on-Force exercises with Simunitions, and live fire in our Simulators.

Regarding it only being defensive...Ambush techniques? Sounds offensive to me...

Hell, even their "self defense" rifle courses teach techniques out to several hundred yards which is FAR outside any true self defense distance.

Your opinion may be that civilians don't need offensive training, which I won't argue with since opinions are like assholes (everyone's got one and they all stink"), but the FACT is civilians can get a bit of offensive training.