Welcome to the Colorado AR-15 Shooters Club Discussion Forums.
I just ask them if they are willing to shred the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments to infringe on the Second... Surprisingly, a number of them have actually thought about it and asked me what I meant. It got them thinking...
Light a fire for a man, and he'll be warm for a day, light a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...
Discussion is an exchange of intelligence. Argument is an exchange of
ignorance. Ever found a liberal that you can have a discussion with?
Also, the first post in this thread is wrong.
"Why do you need high cap magazines?"
A: I am not really a very good shot, so I need as many chances as I can get. Kinda like those extra lives in vidia games.
A: High cap magazines are actually standard capacity magazines, I cannot afford high cap magazines so I just buy the standard ones.
"High cap clips just make it easier to shoot more people at once, there is no other reason for them"
A: Magazines dont shoot people, people shoot people. A higher capacity magazine honestly has nothing to do with it. Swapping magazines takes not even a single second and has no bearing on the number of rounds these nutjobs manage to get off downrange, except in the movies. Look, I get it, its easy to blame the tools, but the fact is that even with single shot weapons these whackos would have done what they did. Yeah sure, they chose military style weapons because they look cool, but in the Aurora shooting the rifle jammed and the sicko switched over to a shotgun, which is what he used for the majority of the shooting. No high-cap mag there.
"We need some sort of gun control so the public is safe and a mag limit will help"
A: No, it wont. There is no evidence that even points in this direction. Even if the mags are banned or limited, it stops nothign. In the middle of the last mag ban/AWB the LA bank robbery/shootout happened and those guys had completely illegal weapons and mag capacity had nothing to do with their rampage. The only way the cops were able to stop them was to go to a sporting goods shop that provided them with AR-15 rifles and magazines, which they were able to sue to stop the shooters. Had those weapons not been available, things would have gone differently.
"Well once banned it will be easy to control who has what"
A: your on crack. Drugs are banned and you can get them on virtually any street corner. Drinking and driving is banned, and every year thousands manage to be arrested for it, and thousands more kill people doing it. Banning accomplishes nothing except to upset honest hardworking Americans.
"Well only violent people even want high cap magazines and assault rifles. so who cares, its not what the average American wants."
A: lets back that bus back up there sunshine. The average American owns a firearm, and usually more than one. As an "anti-gunner" you are in the minority, not the majority. it is completely wrong to believe that your neighbors do not or should not own guns because you dont, and even worse to believe that gun owners are potential criminals. The best thing you can do as an anit-gunner is to ask a gun owner to take you to the range so you understand what the reality is, and part of that reality is that there are more guns in private US Citizens hands than in most countries standing armies.
"Well I hate guns, they only have one purpose and thats to kill people"
A: Once again, for an open mind you are sure closed up. Guns are simply tools, like cars, medicines, machinery, etc. and are only as good or bad as the human being using it. They are not inherently evil, nor do they somehow have the ability to make someone evil. If someone is going to kill people, they will find away with or withut a gun. In fact, more people use knives to kill people than any other weapon, period.
"But the guns and these high cap magazines make it so easy to just stand there and kill lots of people"
A: Ok cupcake, if someone wants to kill lots of people a gun is not the easiest way to do it. Arson is probably the easiest but poison- remember the Tylenol thing years back?- bombs- Oklahoma trade center?- etc. are actually easier and have a higher probability of killing more people. The REAL problem is the "GUN FREE ZONE" the second you remove the publics ability to protect itself is the second they become victims. Oh sure it might not happen today, but it will hapen. Why are police stations, military bases, gun clubs, gun stores, gun shows, hunting cabins, gun ranges, etc. NEVER targeted by these nutjobs? Because they will be shot, with a high probability of being shot before they can fire more than a shot or two. Why? Because those folks are armed. Period. Schools, malls, etc that restrict the carry and possesion of firearms just make a better target. You wont see a guy walk into a biker bar and open fire like you did at Newtown, because he would be dead after the first shot.
Play all the word games you want with the leftist idiots, but in the end they will just twist whatever you say, especially if your trying to be clever and make them "think". The best thing in dealing with a leftist moron is to be honest, use small words, with illustrations if necessary.
OP, this is one of the best posts I've seen on this forum. I am so tired of hearing gun owners make their case after Sandy Hook and sounding A) stupid, B) deranged, C) selfish, and D) all of the above.
Wayne LaPierre is paid nearly $1 million annually by the NRA and as far as I can tell they'd be better paying that money to you because he came off as a fucking idiot in the aftermath of this and seriously damaged the NRA's brand in my opinion.
During the last capacity "ban", Glock magazines went from ... what, about $30 apiece to $60.
That's what I say to people.
Sayonara
I'm not a LaPierre fan but no one was going to look good with the entire MSM setting you up. No one.Originally Posted by Brock Landers
Sayonara
Since gun control has its genesis in racism. Just call them racists. If they are black call them race traitors.
What is good for the goose...
Seriously. These people are not interested in a facts, nor a genuine debate on the merits. So why bother.
Great post, IMO. STICKY, please.
To those saying this won't work on full left wing anti-gun folks, you're correct. They've got their minds made up & nothing is likely to change their minds (unless you save their life with a gun & for some, not even then). Go with the other, emotional statements posted here. Or save your breath and sanity & just walk away...
But, for those that will listen, starting off with the reasoned approach, such as the OP's 1st post, is a great way to start. Again, IMO.
Sturmgewehre has a pretty good statement here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R5Vx...6YliUQ&index=3
Keep up the fight.
Leo
“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity”
Here's the argument I use, and it seems to get them into quiet thought.
"If a group of Muslim extremists went into any school and shot the kids we would be talking about why AR15's and thirty round mags are not part of the 2nd amendment as a right and if the government should be handing them out like Obama phones."
Touche!!!!
Not that it matters anymore since Romney did not win his bid for the Presidency of the United States but he did sign a Permanent Assault Weapons Ban as Governor of Massachusetts in 2004 and, more importantly, during the sign in ceremony, he proudly made the following statement: “Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”
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