Private FTF Gun Sales

[ChadAmberg]

I was chatting with a buddy on the east coast the other day about this kind of thing. Delaware has a law that says, if you're selling private party and would like to do a background check, any FFL must let you do it through them (for a charge of course).

So here's my question: The FFL running the check, what do they put down for the firearm since it may still be in the car or even at the seller's residence still? Next, since the FFL never takes possession of the firearm and I'm sure they wouldn't want to, it never goes in their logbook. And since the record of the BG check disappears, how can you as a seller then "prove" you sold the gun?

The assumption is you would still need that signed bill of sale for those who are so paranoid that they must track that kind of thing with photocopies of drivers licenses, DNA samples, and colonic maps.

FYI for bill of sale, it's to protect you as the seller. Not from "The fuzz is gonna throw me in prison because I couldn't prove I sold the murder weapon" crap, but because you put on there "I sold gun x with accessories y and z for 1$. This transaction is complete." That's what protects you from the buyer taking you to small claims court saying you owe him 20 pmags after the fact.

[ChadAmberg]

Oh and here's my personal selling rule:
If you show me a concealed permit from Colorado where your face matches the pic, I'm good.
If you show me a DL, I check the photo to the face, and also want to see the birthdate. I don't give a crap about the name, address, SSN#, DL#, height or weight. Then ask if you're a prohibited person. If all that checks out, the deal is on.

[Great-Kazoo]

I was chatting with a buddy on the east coast the other day about this kind of thing. Delaware has a law that says, if you're selling private party and would like to do a background check, any FFL must let you do it through them (for a charge of course).

So here's my question: The FFL running the check, what do they put down for the firearm since it may still be in the car or even at the seller's residence still? Next, since the FFL never takes possession of the firearm and I'm sure they wouldn't want to, it never goes in their logbook. And since the record of the BG check disappears, how can you as a seller then "prove" you sold the gun?

The assumption is you would still need that signed bill of sale for those who are so paranoid that they must track that kind of thing with photocopies of drivers licenses, DNA samples, and colonic maps.

FYI for bill of sale, it's to protect you as the seller. Not from "The fuzz is gonna throw me in prison because I couldn't prove I sold the murder weapon" crap, but because you put on there "I sold gun x with accessories y and z for 1$. This transaction is complete." That's what protects you from the buyer taking you to small claims court saying you owe him 20 pmags after the fact.

If it goes through a FFl it must be entered in their log book.

[jackthewall81]

All deals I have ever done have been great

[spqrzilla]

When a FTF sale happens with a firearm happens is there a sure way to CYA?

No.

I know that there a forms simialer to a 4473 for private sales but do these forms hold any protection for the seller if the buyer does soemthing rash? (This assumes that the buyer signs it)

No.

[BlasterBob]

If it goes through a FFl it must be entered in their log book.

If the FFL is merely running a BG check ONLY and not taking physical possession, surely they wouldn't be expected to log it in the book?? The CBI would have no idea that it was either logged in or if the firearm was physically in the possession of the FFL making the BG check call or computer contact. This is a huge gray area (I believe).

[ChadAmberg]

If the FFL is merely running a BG check ONLY and not taking physical possession, surely they wouldn't be expected to log it in the book?? The CBI would have no idea that it was either logged in or if the firearm was physically in the possession of the FFL making the BG check call or computer contact. This is a huge gray area (I believe).

That's my question... The FFL shouldn't be "taking possession" at any point. I mean, how would that work? The seller hands over the weapon to the FFL, who logs it in, then processes a check on the buyer. The buyer fails... guess what? Now the FFL has to run a check on the seller. What if he fails also? Now the FFL has possession of a firearm that they should not have. The seller is boned at that point... what can he do? Sell it to the FFL who may not want it?

I guess this leads into the whole "do not do more than the law requires."

[BPTactical]

If the FFL is merely running a BG check ONLY and not taking physical possession, surely they wouldn't be expected to log it in the book?? The CBI would have no idea that it was either logged in or if the firearm was physically in the possession of the FFL making the BG check call or computer contact. This is a huge gray area (I believe).

To the best of my knowledge the FFL is facilitating a transfer and it needs to be logged as such. Most dealers I know have a series of bound books, Sales, Transfers and Consignments.

[Sharpienads]

I subscribe to the "BoS doesn't mean much" theory. I don't require them when I sell as long as I've got some way to judge who I'm selling to (ie: Feedback Forum, reputation, etc...). When I'm buying I generally shy away from those asking for a BoS but it isn't a deal killer as long as the seller wants nothing more than a name and maybe a phone number. He's not getting a lot of personal info.

I've been offered a lot of beef for trade...steaks, hamburger, etc... Yeah...no.

You only take sausage? Or tube steak?

[BlasterBob]

To the best of my knowledge the FFL is facilitating a transfer and it needs to be logged as such. Most dealers I know have a series of bound books, Sales, Transfers and Consignments.

What I was referring to is if a FFL merely wants to help to secure as a favor, a BG check and has absolutely NO intention of making any type of transfer or even handling the potential firearm IF it even exists..... He is only making the BG call and does not have the firearm in his possession. The CBI would have no idea that the FFL does not intend to actually run the subject firearm through his books, he is merely contacting them to make the BG check. He'd charge the $10 fee (IF made at a gun show) for the check and who'd possibly know what he had done except the guy who was asking him to get the BG check. Although I am not an FFL dealer, I sure can't see any law being circumvented or broken for such an action but I am not in any way saying that I am an expert (at ANYTHING). Wonder if the above is considered as facilitating??
If I remember correctly, the CBI does not get any serial number or even description for the firearm, they do ask if the firearm involved is a handgun or long gun...

According to Webster - Facilitate = to make easy or easier.