Christians on the board...

[muddywings]

TL;DR
How did the founding fathers deal with it?

[Dingo]

Stay focused on the areas you can impact and be a blessing for your neighbor first,

I like this... that's some solid advice there.

When it comes to obeying our govt, look up Psalms 22:28. Take it as you may... this govt is corrupt and ultimately I live my life by the only Book that matters.

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2)"

“Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-14).


Not arguing here, just playing devil's advocate. Thoughts?

For instance, Luke 22 (v36 I think), Jesus tells his disciples to sell their cloak and buy a sword.

I've always enjoyed this verse...

TL;DR
How did the founding fathers deal with it?

I believe that the founding fathers were inspired to their revolution by God. No question about it.

[Southbridge]

I like this... that's some solid advice there.





"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2)"

“Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-14).


Not arguing here, just playing devil's advocate. Thoughts?




I've always enjoyed this verse...



I believe that the founding fathers were inspired to their revolution by God. No question about it.

Mark 12:17, the famous verse about rendering unto Caesar. We are only bound to give to the government that which is legitimately their due. So now you get into the realm of just and unjust laws.

[Dingo]

I see the current political discourse as simply another test from God, one that might test the limits of our patience, virtue, and see how far we are willing to go so that future generations may live in peace and liberty.

I agree, however I don't believe it's a test from God so much as just the natural, predictable, plodding progression downward to a bad direction. Probably borne of human nature. The test will be how we react to it.

How can I fully realize the mind of God and all of his will when I don't know how big it is?
God is my anchor. God is my rock. God is my fortress.
Whatever comes, will come. I pray that I will do my best to represent the God who gives me this life. Regardless of my performance, God loves me and I can do nothing to change that.

I agree. It's comforting to realize that I don't have to have everything completely figured out on my own.

Mark 12:17, the famous verse about rendering unto Caesar. We are only bound to give to the government that which is legitimately their due. So now you get into the realm of just and unjust laws.

I think discerning those very things are a large part of the reason that God gave us common sense, and the ability for critical thought. (Pity the vast majority out there have abdicated those responsibilities and would prefer to have their TV think for them.)

[ChunkyMonkey]

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2)"

“Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-14).


Not arguing here, just playing devil's advocate. Thoughts?



I believe that the founding fathers were inspired to their revolution by God. No question about it.

^^ why?

You just answered yourself. Again refer to Psalms 22:28 as to which nation/govt to obey. When the govt violated The commandments by killing its own citizen, theft etc, it's no longer His nations. This is an extremely simple question. Will you obey Hitler's command to kill the Jews? No. Why?

[Ronin13]

"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves” (Romans 13:1-2)"

“Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right” (1 Peter 2:13-14).


Not arguing here, just playing devil's advocate. Thoughts?

To this, I'm reminded of what a preacher once told me: "The laws of God are higher than the laws of man. If a conflict ever came up between them, surely God cannot fault you for disobeying the laws of man in order to adhere to the laws of God."

[Dingo]

To this, I'm reminded of what a preacher once told me: "The laws of God are higher than the laws of man. If a conflict ever came up between them, surely God cannot fault you for disobeying the laws of man in order to adhere to the laws of God."

Without a doubt.

If you don't object to a different perspective I'll certainly offer one. We can have differing beliefs yet still hold true to the gift the forefathers presented.

Badger - absolutely. I agree with the entirety of your post 100%, albeit through the lens of the perspective my faith gives me. It's one of the beautiful things about the intent of the founding fathers that America should be a haven for the free exchange of differing ideas, and freedom of religion, trade, peaceable existence. I always welcome any diverse viewpoints expressed in an intelligent and fair manner. Thanks for the food for thought!

The bible is very supportive of the concept of justice. It is also very supportive of the protection of innocents.

"turn the other cheek" does not mean you are a doormat. It doesn't mean christian women should go around, advertising "I'm a christian, you can like, rape me, or whatever, and I'll just turn the other cheek mmkay!". Capiche? It's about not coming from a position of vengeance more than anything. God has supported many war efforts - even absolute genocide. He/it is NOT a liberal, pacifist, pantywaist. When something stands in the way of his will, he will do what it takes. In performance of his will, you should do the same.

Example: Complete genocide of a people down to the last man, woman, and child. Why? Nephilim. They had infected a gene pool (Philistines). He wasn't above wiping out even children as a means to the end. The bible and god supports both pacifist and patriot. There is nothing telling you to lay down.

Agreed. I think ultimately it all comes down to individual circumstances dealt with in the perception, common sense, and conscience that was granted us by our Creator. There are always exceptions to every rule, and God gave us brains to figure out the right way to handle things without having a specific Bible verse dealing with every conceivable situation.

Dingo,
Good discussion. Thanks for starting it. I too, as a Christian, struggle with this. My peace comes from knowing that no matter what happens, God is in control. With that being said,I will fight tooth and nail for my family and my country and our freedom with a clear conscience.

I'm with you there. I wouldn't hesitate to resist vehemently, answer with violence, or even lay down my life if needs be, in the defense of the things I hold dear. I believe God knows this about me, and is in control of which circumstances I'll be placed in in that regard.

[Bentsight]

I'm with you there. I wouldn't hesitate to resist vehemently, answer with violence, or even lay down my life if needs be, in the defense of the things I hold dear. I believe God knows this about me, and is in control of which circumstances I'll be placed in in that regard.

^^^ THIS