View Full Version : Gonna be a mess - got an excuse to agitate
A Facebook search for "Colorado Law Enforcement" does not yield anything by that name.
Links people, LINKS if you're gonna talk about something that's online, please!
O2
On edit, waaaaaay down the page I found it:
https://www.facebook.com/COLawEnforcement
Boy, cutting and pasting that link was easy!
Get outta' here with wanting documentation. "They say" is all you need. [Coffee]
My take on why it wouldn't ge good for Antifa to head out of the city? Big city PDs run by liberals are way more likely to let the shenanigans continue as opposed to a Sheriff in a red county. Send enough perpetrators out in body bags, it sends a message. For example, gangs in LA used to rob banks in Bakersfield. Guess why they don't do that anymore?
So all these big crowds, how soon does covid case numbers sky rocket? I mean after all, we've been told over and over, that's what would happen if crowds of more then 10 were to be allowed. [panic]
I'm guessing you can also smell what they're shoveling.
mindfold
06-01-2020, 10:11
So all these big crowds, how soon does covid case numbers sky rocket? I mean after all, we've been told over and over, that's what would happen if crowds of more then 10 were to be allowed. [panic]
Either way it is a win. Either no jump in cases or the vermin spread it among themselves.
Fear for the responders but don?t think the exposure risk has increased.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My wife came up with the idea that it will be "proven" that tear gas is effective at killing the corona.[ROFL2]
Aloha_Shooter
06-01-2020, 11:27
So all these big crowds, how soon does covid case numbers sky rocket? I mean after all, we've been told over and over, that's what would happen if crowds of more then 10 were to be allowed. [panic]
I would be distraught if coronavirus infections shot up in the Antifa and associated groups. Really.
[ROFL2][ROFL3][shit-happens][Pop]
So all these big crowds, how soon does covid case numbers sky rocket? I mean after all, we've been told over and over, that's what would happen if crowds of more then 10 were to be allowed. [panic]
Gather for church with more than 10 people (ie. 2 families, no pastor) and they want to rush in and shut you down because of the grave danger you present.
Gather with thousands, protesting and rioting, and you’ll be thanked by both the governor and the mayor.
Historic church where Lincoln worshipped in DC is torched.
See a pattern?
By the way, I suggested we just call our church service a protest and we should be good.
RblDiver
06-01-2020, 12:03
Either way it is a win. Either no jump in cases or the vermin spread it among themselves.
Cedebaka (or however the heck she spells it) hardest hit?
What does ACAB stand for? It's spray painted all over down town.
buffalobo
06-01-2020, 12:06
A Facebook search for "Colorado Law Enforcement" does not yield anything by that name.
Links people, LINKS if you're gonna talk about something that's online, please!
O2
On edit, waaaaaay down the page I found it:
https://www.facebook.com/COLawEnforcement
Boy, cutting and pasting that link was easy!Preach it![emoji106]
buffalobo
06-01-2020, 12:11
What does ACAB stand for? It's spray painted all over down town.Acronym for "All cops are bastards"
Used by political dissidents.
Acronym for "All cops are bastards"
Used by political dissidents.
I thought it was "bitches"
What does ACAB stand for? It's spray painted all over down town.
It stands for "All Cops Are Bastards."
Martinjmpr
06-01-2020, 13:17
It stands for "All Cops Are Bastards."
I'm also seeing pictures of "FTP."
Not hard to figure that one out and I'm pretty sure it isn't File Transfer Protocol. ;)
RblDiver
06-01-2020, 13:39
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1267491460552720392
Store owners taking no crap.
Acronym for "All cops are bastards"
Used by political dissidents.
Hmmm, seems they're using a pretty broad nozzle to paint that message.
Hmmm, seems they're using a pretty broad nozzle to paint that message.
I don't know if you've noticed or not, but rioting and looting ain't exactly dainty pursuits.
BushMasterBoy
06-01-2020, 14:04
Maybe a deadly force authorized for looters law, might stop the looting. Fill some body bags, save some businesses.
Break in-get shot. Sounds fair to me.
I'm also seeing pictures of "FTP."
Not hard to figure that one out and I'm pretty sure it isn't File Transfer Protocol. ;)
Shouldn't it be "FDP"?
Bailey Guns
06-01-2020, 14:41
Serious question...
What is more dangerous to a city in general terms?
A police officer who recklessly or negligently (or, hell...even intentionally) causes the death of one person and then is almost immediately arrested, jailed and charged with murder?
A city councilman of the very city where violent protests started over the unnecessary death of a man at the hands of a bad cop, who openly expresses his support for a violent, radical group largely responsible for riots and damage and injury to people all over the country?
Hmmm, seems they're using a pretty broad nozzle to paint that message.
Aren't you clever.
Interesting to see citizens in Bellvue, WA protecting their neighborhood: https://twitter.com/DigitalForests/status/1267277113524133888?s=20
They're closing down stores and trying to get people out of Kirkland, WA.
https://komonews.com/news/local/kirkland-asking-stores-to-close-early-monday-amid-looting-fears
Interesting to see citizens in Bellvue, WA protecting their neighborhood: https://twitter.com/DigitalForests/status/1267277113524133888?s=20
They're closing down stores and trying to get people out of Kirkland, WA.
https://komonews.com/news/local/kirkland-asking-stores-to-close-early-monday-amid-looting-fears
Yikes.
SideShow Bob
06-01-2020, 16:42
Nuff talking and appealing, time to crack some heads......
https://twitter.com/dbongino/status/1267238959718989828?cxt=HGwWiICw-dTHkZYjAAAA
As to the questions about protecting your community, there's a thread here on a WA forum created by a contractor currently working in Kuwait (IIRC).
Community security tips and team building (https://waguns.org/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=109923)
http://youtu.be/RivUUU1hE_I
Live helicopter view for Denver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPVNBgBlT9U
DeusExMachina
06-01-2020, 17:38
I bet you guys are thrilled that the King is threatening to activate the military on US soil.
But wearing a mask is tyranny.
Bailey Guns
06-01-2020, 17:55
Yeah...that's us. Just nothing but a bunch of anti-freedom posers. You nailed it.
SideShow Bob
06-01-2020, 17:56
I bet you guys are thrilled that the King is threatening to activate the military on US soil.
But wearing a mask is tyranny.
???????
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyranny (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tyranny)
Great-Kazoo
06-01-2020, 18:15
I bet you guys are thrilled that the King is threatening to activate the military on US soil.
But wearing a mask is tyranny.
Were you thrilled when Obama was on tv, saying how disappointed he was with the grand jury / Darren Wilson verdict.
While showing a split screen of people torching fergason MO? What did obama do during every incident? NOTHING But pander to the mob.
So now we're at the other extreme where violence must be met with a firm reaction, to stop this shit, once and for all.
IMO this is what the agitators have been waiting fo...r Push enough buttons so trump has to act. Or look ineffective while rome burns.
Like they did during the "pandemic". Criticize him for being xenophobic and racist for stopping flights from CHI-NA
Then condemning him for not acting soon enough. Some of you are still wound too tight, over the virus.
AND SPARE ME the YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT LIFE, temper tantrum.
FOR THE RECORD:
Wearing a mask was never MANDATORY. IT was a personal choice. Until it's 45 day later.
Then stores started a MUST WEAR A MASK TO ENTER policy.
Bailey Guns
06-01-2020, 18:17
AND SPARE ME the YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT LIFE, temper tantrum.
Too late...
Great-Kazoo
06-01-2020, 18:18
I bet you guys are thrilled that the King is threatening to activate the military on US soil.
But wearing a mask is tyranny.
as a follow, up curious what your reaction is to this tidbit?
https://www.fox13news.com/news/peaceful-protesters-gather-in-polk-county-curfew-in-effect-at-8-p-m
Judd said the Highway Patrol did a ?marvelous job? helping stop the few who showed up for that alleged effort.
?We are going to hunt you down and lock you up if you engage in any criminal conduct,? Judd said.
Judd said there were rumblings on social media that rioters planned to bring violence into the neighborhoods of Polk County.
?I would tell them, if you value your life, they probably shouldn?t do that in Polk County. Because the people of Polk County like guns, they have guns, I encourage them to own guns, and they?re going to be in their homes tonight with their guns loaded, and if you try to break into their homes to steal, to set fires, I?m highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So, leave the community alone,? Judd said.
Bailey Guns
06-01-2020, 18:26
"foreign and domestic" doesn't refer to beer. Just sayin'.
SA Friday
06-01-2020, 18:27
Moderator Post: "you guys" was posted to be inflammatory. Then a couple of you took the bait. Stop it. All of you. Move along or get the garden hose.
Bailey Guns
06-01-2020, 18:29
Sheriff Judd is the same sheriff who was asked why his officers shot some guy that had caused all kinds of mayhem dozens of times. He basically said, "Because that's all the ammo we had." (paraphrased)
Good for him.
Great-Kazoo
06-01-2020, 18:34
Sheriff Judd is the same sheriff who was asked why his officers shot some guy that had caused all kinds of mayhem dozens of times. He basically said, "Because that's all the ammo we had." (paraphrased)
Good for you guys.
SideShow Bob
06-01-2020, 18:49
Moderator Post: "you guys" was posted to be inflammatory. Then a couple of you took the bait. Stop it. All of you. Move along or get the garden hose.
I’m just looking for something I can be justified in rioting about,........ [Tooth]
JohnnyDrama
06-01-2020, 18:58
I’m just looking for something I can be justified in rioting about,........ [Tooth]
Heck yeah! In fact, it's such a nice evening out I'm gonna go for a walk! Then I'm gonna come home and load some ammunition!
SideShow Bob
06-01-2020, 19:02
Heck yeah! In fact, it's such a nice evening out I'm gonna go for a walk! Then I'm gonna come home and load some ammunition!
And the link in post #275 is almost enough of a trigger. (pardon the pun)
In another incident, the LAPD and Marines intervened in a domestic dispute in Compton, in which the suspect held his wife and children hostage. As the officers approached, the suspect fired two shotgun rounds through the door, injuring some of the officers. One of the officers yelled to the Marines, "Cover me," as per law enforcement training to be prepared to fire upon if necessary. However, per their military training, the Marines mistook the wording as providing cover while utilizing firepower, resulting in a total of 200 rounds being sprayed into the house. Remarkably, neither the suspect nor the woman and children inside the house were harmed.[99
I was in L A during the riots, It seemed the rioting and looting was a game to so many. Marine patrols going through your neighborhood will stop the unrest and will make you think about freedom or lack there of.
Rucker61
06-01-2020, 19:39
In another incident, the LAPD and Marines intervened in a domestic dispute in Compton, in which the suspect held his wife and children hostage. As the officers approached, the suspect fired two shotgun rounds through the door, injuring some of the officers. One of the officers yelled to the Marines, "Cover me," as per law enforcement training to be prepared to fire upon if necessary. However, per their military training, the Marines mistook the wording as providing cover while utilizing firepower, resulting in a total of 200 rounds being sprayed into the house. Remarkably, neither the suspect nor the woman and children inside the house were harmed.[99
I was in L A during the riots, It seemed the rioting and looting was a game to so many. Marine patrols going through your neighborhood will stop the unrest and will make you think about freedom or lack there of.
Old joke:
When asked to secure a building:
The Marines will call in artillery then form a perimeter in the rubble;
The Army will lock all of the doors but one and post a CQ and CQ runner at the last door;
The Navy will lock all of the doors and go home;
The Air Force will sign a three year lease with an option to buy.
8:28PM right now. Shit show is about to start again. [facepalm]
Minneapolis police advised earlier today that they were finding bottles with gasoline deployed in advance of the usual evening festivities.
And then there are the bricks reported in many other places. Some which appear to be located at legitimate construction sites (but arguably negligently left unattended) while others are suspicious...
I do not do twitter, but I have seen some links posted around
https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/sta...22783472861187
Last night on livestreams, I forget if it was Philly or DC, there was a black guy in a #9 jersey (not sure which team) who was pushing back the looters & shit-stirrers from storefronts. Who knows if I would agree with any of his politics, but he was out there trying to stop some of the chaos
The 5th column of the media are ignoring those who work to prevent looting, while covering up for those who enable it
OctopusHighball
06-01-2020, 21:21
Welp, about to get interesting tomorrow...
81739
Welp, about to get interesting tomorrow...
81739
I do not like the....
Time:
2pm - WHENEVER
The protester organizer should have written
1-1.5 hour before curfew.
Wow. I'm stunned.
https://twitter.com/robingbennett/status/1267242469881757697/photo/1
Mike Tyson tweeted on May 28th, "If white people rioted every time a black man killed them, we'd never have any peace." and the Instagram image is a bar graph of interracial violence.
Zundfolge
06-01-2020, 21:32
???????
Don't waste too much time thinking about it ... there are a few TDS sufferers even among our midst.
Huh, I've been selling bricks and rocks or if my yard for $2 a pound all weekend. Makes sense now.
Yeehaw! You tell 'em Joe!
http://www.comicbookfx.com/images/193-8.jpg
Biden says police should be trained to "shoot 'em in the leg instead of the heart" (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-police-training-shoot-em-in-the-leg)
SMDH
Wow. I'm stunned.
https://twitter.com/robingbennett/status/1267242469881757697/photo/1
Mike Tyson tweeted on May 28th, "If white people rioted every time a black man killed them, we'd never have any peace." and the Instagram image is a bar graph of interracial violence.
Love it
We had a very intelligent vice presidents for ~24 years since 1993.
[hahhah-no]
Sound familiar?
SUV plows through Buffalo police, 2 seriously injured (https://www.foxnews.com/us/suv-plows-through-buffalo-police-2-seriously-injured)
A video emerged Monday night that showed an SUV plowing through a line of officers responding to a George Floyd protest in Buffalo, N.Y., hitting at least one and speeding away.
John Evans, the PBA president, told reporters in the city that a trooper and officer were hit in the incident, according to Stephen Marth of Spectrum News Buffalo. They were rushed to a nearby hospital in serious condition.
68Charger
06-01-2020, 21:53
We had a very intelligent vice presidents for ~24 years since 1993.
[hahhah-no]
It's "Assassination insurance "
JohnnyDrama
06-01-2020, 21:57
That's a messed up scene.
And the link in post #275 is almost enough of a trigger. (pardon the pun)
Anyway.... I had a nice walk.
81738
Great-Kazoo
06-01-2020, 23:30
That's a messed up scene.
Anyway.... I had a nice walk.
81738
glad it came out better then that picture.
I bet you guys are thrilled that the King is threatening to activate the military on US soil.
Actually, I?m not. I?m also not a fan of calling in the National Guard. If you can?t stomach trained law enforcement trying to clear the streets and defending themselves when attacked, I can?t imagine you?re going to be any happier with how military personnel who likely have little or zero training in law and the enforcement thereof. Should anything get violent you are going to call for them to be arrested. Not fair to them or the citizens, IMO.
I?m also concerned about the naming of a domestic group (ANTIFA) as a terrorist organization. I don?t like the precedent any of this sets for future administrations. Many libs have repeatedly called groups like the NRA a terrorist organization, and I assume they wouldn?t blink twice about naming anyone who is a member of a group like this the same. Aggressively target them for their criminal activity under RICO, similar to our targeting of MS13.
My .02.
Great-Kazoo
06-01-2020, 23:31
Wow. I'm stunned.
https://twitter.com/robingbennett/status/1267242469881757697/photo/1
Mike Tyson tweeted on May 28th, "If white people rioted every time a black man killed them, we'd never have any peace." and the Instagram image is a bar graph of interracial violence.
and, by friday, if not sooner he'll either walk back that (what ever it's called) or say his account was hacked.
Wow. I'm stunned.
https://twitter.com/robingbennett/status/1267242469881757697/photo/1
Mike Tyson tweeted on May 28th, "If white people rioted every time a black man killed them, we'd never have any peace." and the Instagram image is a bar graph of interracial violence.
Looks like it?s a fake as far as I can tell. If you go to Tyson?s actual Twitter feed, he hasn?t posted anything since the 24th, I think. Either that, or he took it down. It would be astonishing since he actually has a tattoo of Mao Zedong. He would most likely be lockstep in thinking with ANTIFA.
I was stunned by the correct spelling, punctuation, and sentence structure.
Here's a side of law enforcement I can get behind (Polk County Florida):
http://youtu.be/kQF2SFz0A0I
California liquor store owner uses AR-15 to protect his property from looters in George Floyd unrest (https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-liquor-store-owner-uses-ar-15-to-protect-his-property-from-looters-in-george-floyd-unrest)
I'm thinking, "AR-15? California? Really?"
DeusExMachina
06-02-2020, 01:25
Actually, I?m not. I?m also not a fan of calling in the National Guard. If you can?t stomach trained law enforcement trying to clear the streets and defending themselves when attacked, I can?t imagine you?re going to be any happier with how military personnel who likely have little or zero training in law and the enforcement thereof. Should anything get violent you are going to call for them to be arrested. Not fair to them or the citizens, IMO.
I?m also concerned about the naming of a domestic group (ANTIFA) as a terrorist organization. I don?t like the precedent any of this sets for future administrations. Many libs have repeatedly called groups like the NRA a terrorist organization, and I assume they wouldn?t blink twice about naming anyone who is a member of a group like this the same. Aggressively target them for their criminal activity under RICO, similar to our targeting of MS13.
My .02.
IMHO this is a basic admission of fascism in the administration, declaring a movement that is against fascism as terrorists. ANTIFA is a portmanteau of anti-fascists, there is no larger group or organization, and the designation will be used to evade the Constitution.
Anybody cheering these anti-1st activities on should consider what would happen should it be anti-2nd, and if (when?) unrest gets bad enough that a curfew turns to disarmament. Imagine the response of these bumbling clowns who open fire with pepperspray balls at people standing on their private property, toss teargas at people standing around with signs, or do drivebys with rubber bullets on innocents -- would do when the 'other' is armed.
If you're against the government suggesting you wear a mask but favor the government cracking down on POC, it's pretty obvious you're only OK with masks if they're big white and pointy.
Fun fact: 93 years and 3 days ago, Donald Trump's father was arrested at a Klan rally.
You're doing a LOT of projecting Phil.
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 05:47
IMHO this is a basic admission of fascism in the administration, declaring a movement that is against fascism as terrorists. ANTIFA is a portmanteau of anti-fascists, there is no larger group or organization, and the designation will be used to evade the Constitution.
Anybody cheering these anti-1st activities on should consider what would happen should it be anti-2nd, and if (when?) unrest gets bad enough that a curfew turns to disarmament. Imagine the response of these bumbling clowns who open fire with pepperspray balls at people standing on their private property, toss teargas at people standing around with signs, or do drivebys with rubber bullets on innocents -- would do when the 'other' is armed.
If you're against the government suggesting you wear a mask but favor the government cracking down on POC, it's pretty obvious you're only OK with masks if they're big white and pointy.
Fun fact: 93 years and 3 days ago, Donald Trump's father was arrested at a Klan rally.
I learned three things from this post:
1. the definition of "portmanteau" and I'm not sure the poster is using it properly
2. the poster doesn't understand the term "fascist" or "fascism"...I know he's not using that term properly (though, to be fair, most people don't know what this word really means and don't use it properly)
3. I'll just keep the third thing to myself...
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 07:14
So basically we are under martial law. When the military is deployed domestically with firearms and other weapons, it is martial law. The mainstream media won't call it martial law, but it is.
I still think business owners should be legally allowed to use force to protect their property. They have to pay a business license fee & taxes, but they do not get the protection they pay for.
Who's this "we" you're talking about?
Great-Kazoo
06-02-2020, 08:02
IMHO this is a basic admission of fascism in the administration, declaring a movement that is against fascism as terrorists. ANTIFA is a portmanteau of anti-fascists, there is no larger group or organization, and the designation will be used to evade the Constitution.
Anybody cheering these anti-1st activities on should consider what would happen should it be anti-2nd, and if (when?) unrest gets bad enough that a curfew turns to disarmament. Imagine the response of these bumbling clowns who open fire with pepperspray balls at people standing on their private property, toss teargas at people standing around with signs, or do drivebys with rubber bullets on innocents -- would do when the 'other' is armed.
If you're against the government suggesting you wear a mask but favor the government cracking down on POC, it's pretty obvious you're only OK with masks if they're big white and pointy.
Fun fact: 93 years and 3 days ago, Donald Trump's father was arrested at a Klan rally.
you pull this from the Daily Kos? We know you don't like trump, we get it.
But come on pointy hats. so anyone here who didn't wear a face mask to go out during the so called pandemic is a racist?
you're $%^&* wayyyyyyyyyyy out there. Or have that mask on too tight, it's stopped oxygen from getting to your brain.
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 08:15
So basically we are under martial law. When the military is deployed domestically with firearms and other weapons, it is martial law. The mainstream media won't call it martial law, but it is.
I still think business owners should be legally allowed to use force to protect their property. They have to pay a business license fee & taxes, but they do not get the protection they pay for.
OMG... Now we're under martial law? Some of you guys need to get a grip.
Civil law has not been suspended. Civil rights have not been suspended. Habeas corpus has not been suspended. You are not subject to military tribunal should you violate a law. These things are what martial law looks like. Are these things happening in your town or state? Didn't think so.
The National Guard, or even US military, being deployed to assist in an emergency to assist local law enforcement in some hard hit areas does not equal martial law. When the NG or military is deployed to assist with national disasters does anyone cry "martial law"?
Business owners can use force to defend their property. The ability to do that is well articulated in Colorado statutes.
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 08:17
Why have so many people lost the ability to apply objective reasoning?
Great-Kazoo
06-02-2020, 08:18
OMG... Now we're under martial law? Some of you guys need to get a grip.
Civil law has not been suspended. Civil rights have not been suspended. Habeas corpus has not been suspended. You are not subject to military tribunal should you violate a law. These things are what martial law looks like. Are these things happening in your town or state? Didn't think so.
The National Guard, or even US military, being deployed to assist in an emergency to assist local law enforcement in some hard hit areas does not equal martial law. When the NG or military is deployed to assist with national disasters does anyone cry "martial law"?
Business owners can use force to defend their property. The ability to do that is well articulated in Colorado statutes.
Trump could call up the .mil, under the Insurrection Act.
But there is no martial law, atm. Curfew, yes.
Like a curfew is going to stop anyone from causing trouble. Like those NO GUNS signs at schools do
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 08:27
LMAO....I knew you guys would say the rhetoric was wrong. Same as calling Vietnam a "police action".
Mere semantics. Armed military personnel patrolling the streets... what do you members call that?
battlemidget
06-02-2020, 09:04
Under the Communications Act of 1934, the govt can shutdown wireless and phone.
With Standard Operating Procedure 303, the framework is already established. I don't see nationwide shutdowns, but I could see targeted cellular disruption.
Got Ham?
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 09:18
"Federal law enforcement officers fired rubber bullets and chemicals at peaceful protesters outside the White House on Monday evening as President Trump appeared in the Rose Garden to threaten the mobilization of thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers to quell lawlessness across the country. Demonstrators were pushed away from Lafayette Square, where they were protesting the police-involved killing of George Floyd."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/06/02/dc-protest-george-floyd-white-house/
Zundfolge
06-02-2020, 09:20
Mere semantics.
Yeah, like calling rioters and looters "protesters" and "demonstrators" .
battlemidget
06-02-2020, 09:23
Yeah, like calling rioters and looters "protesters" and "demonstrators" .
I like the term 'undocumented shoppers'.
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 09:31
LMAO....I knew you guys would say the rhetoric was wrong. Same as calling Vietnam a "police action".
Mere semantics. Armed military personnel patrolling the streets... what do you members call that?
Oh...it was rhetoric...claiming civil law and civil rights have been suspended in favor of military rule being enforced? You actually claimed that is what's happening by saying we're under martial law. But just verbally threatening to use military troops, which is pretty much a perfect example of rhetoric, is martial law and not rhetoric. Got it.
I've got news for you. Living under martial law is not rhetoric and it's not semantics. It's real world life under MILITARY RULE, not word games. You are not living thru or under anything close to martial law. If you were you likely wouldn't even be posting on this forum.
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 09:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_g4Sy-zAXg
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 09:43
The White House is always under military guard. You've never seen the Marine NCOs there?
Zundfolge
06-02-2020, 09:43
White House Now Under Military Guard
Well yeah, the SAMs on the roof every other day are clearly not police issue. And those Marines that are there every day aren't exactly local PD either.
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 10:14
The White House is always under military guard. You've never seen the Marine NCOs there?
The Marine Guard is unarmed. The USAF police you see the at the ramp of AF One are armed. The first line of protection for the president is the US Secret Service. There even is a contingency plan if AF One is attacked by a UFO.
Did you know that after Jackie Kennedy was made a widow, her protection was changed to the US Marshals Service?
Not sure what is going on in DC, but I bet some protesters are planning to storm the place. I'm not going by rhetoric & semantics, but merely what I have seen.
Occupy White House will be as successful as invade Area 51
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 10:29
They are just now closing all the surrounding blocks according to this report.
https://www.axios.com/white-house-protests-secret-service-trump-e7b96257-c0d3-47bb-adcd-7da48bc48562.html
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 10:52
The Marine Guard is unarmed. The USAF police you see the at the ramp of AF One are armed. The first line of protection for the president is the US Secret Service. There even is a contingency plan if AF One is attacked by a UFO.
Did you know that after Jackie Kennedy was made a widow, her protection was changed to the US Marshals Service?
Not sure what is going on in DC, but I bet some protesters are planning to storm the place. I'm not going by rhetoric & semantics, but merely what I have seen.
I know all that. The point is there's always a military "guard" presence around the president. It seems obvious to me if there's a threat against the WH, the military will respond. I find nothing unusual or sinister about that. I'll also wager one of those "unarmed" Marines would do their damnedest, weapon or not, to protect the president. That's kind of what "guarding" means.
Occupy White House will be as successful as invade Area 51
Yes, and equally entertaining to watch.
Aloha_Shooter
06-02-2020, 11:29
1. Federal law enforcement has never been the same thing as military personnel (except when those personnel are designated with law enforcement authorities like CID, NCIS, AFOSI).
2. There is a big difference between military personnel being used to guard a specific federal facility and having military personnel "roam the streets".
3. The government has always had the authority to employ National Guard (as opposed to active duty servicemembers) short term (and usually in specific locations) to address domestic crises.
4. Trump's Tweet said "when the looting starts, the shooting starts". That was a warning that he would take action to maintain civil order. Not the same thing at all as declaration of martial law. Typical Trump, it was brusque and undiplomatic. We will see if it had the desired effect.
BPTactical
06-02-2020, 12:03
Jesus Christ
Warning, NSFW
But I must say for being a retard* she is quite articulate.....
https://youtu.be/f5BeQ1w4bfA
*Apologies to actual retarded individuals
buffalobo
06-02-2020, 12:28
They live among us...
Some of the comments funny.
Why have so many people lost the ability to apply objective reasoning?
Side affect of the 'Rona? Beats me.
There's so much agitation by the media on all fronts, it's no wonder that some people are going off the rails.
I just wish people would stop quoting and responding to certain posters that are urinating in the communal watering hole to get attention. Just ignore them and move on.
Pro tip: Quoting people can expose what they type even if they're on someone's ignore list.
ETA: If you're getting your info from WaPo, CNN, MSNBC, and Facebook, branch out a bit and see what else is out there.
White House Now Under Military Guard
Well yeah, the SAMs on the roof every other day are clearly not police issue. And those Marines that are there every day aren't exactly local PD either.
It's Washington D.C., governed by the Feds. Attempting to translate D.C. to the states is flawed from the get-go.
ETA: This is me agreeing with you, Zundfolge. I appreciate your use of sarcasm.
Yes, and equally entertaining to watch.
I've got popcorn.
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 13:12
Herbert Hoover sent the military against protesting veterans in 1932. They even used tanks. He lost to Roosevelt in the next election. Hoover only prevailed in 6 states. The veterans eventually got the bonus they were seeking...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_United_States_presidential_election
Herbert Hoover sent the military against protesting veterans in 1932. They even used tanks. He lost to Roosevelt in the next election. Hoover only prevailed in 6 states. The veterans eventually got the bonus they were seeking...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1932_United_States_presidential_election
Interesting and worthwhile comparison.
That said, so far as I know, the Bonus March was not marred by violence and looting, and they had a pretty uniform and coherent request.
RblDiver
06-02-2020, 15:23
Debated putting this in funny video thread, but decided to keep it out. Instant karma however, these guys learning that being "good leftists" doesn't matter.
https://twitter.com/AntonioSabatoJr/status/1267912015009415170
BushMasterBoy
06-02-2020, 15:31
After the cavalry charged, the infantry, with fixed bayonets and tear gas (adamsite, an arsenical vomiting agent) entered the camps, evicting veterans, families, and camp followers. The veterans fled across the Anacostia River to their largest camp, and Hoover ordered the assault stopped. MacArthur chose to ignore the president and ordered a new attack, claiming that the Bonus March was an attempt to overthrow the US government. 55 veterans were injured and 135 arrested.[1] A veteran's wife miscarried. When 12-week-old Bernard Myers died in the hospital after being caught in the tear gas attack, a government investigation reported he died of enteritis, and a hospital spokesman said the tear gas "didn't do it any good."
Excerpted from Wikipedia...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 15:41
Just checked...no infantry with fixed bayonets on my street. There is the neighbor's goat, with horns (they're kinda like bayonets), that eats my grass.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/looters-philly-gun-store-owner
Lootie attempted to sack a gunstore , brain looted by owner.
https://www.theblaze.com/news/looters-philly-gun-store-owner
Lootie attempted to sack a gunstore , brain looted by owner.
Great story.
Great story.
Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that will stop this mess. When it gets too dangerous for them and enough examples are made, they'll stop.
Want to make a millennial mad?
Post a picture with the tag #blacklivesmatter on your social media
There is a blackout Tuesday? Going on. All I see on Twitter is a solid black square tagged with #blacklivesmatter as a show of support to the rioters
SideShow Bob
06-02-2020, 17:47
Jesus Christ
Warning, NSFW
But I must say for being a retard* she is quite articulate.....
https://youtu.be/f5BeQ1w4bfA
*Apologies to actual retarded individuals
And What did the HR rep of our former common employer say ? “That it is impossible for a black person to be racist ”. ?
Bailey Guns
06-02-2020, 18:27
I needed an interpreter to listen to her. A minute and a half was about all I could take.
Zundfolge
06-02-2020, 18:42
https://www.theblaze.com/news/looters-philly-gun-store-owner
Lootie attempted to sack a gunstore , brain looted by owner.
https://i.redd.it/fp2wijw0pxn41.jpg
To be honest, if I owned a gun store, I'd kinda feel like it was my moral obligation to make sure that looters stayed out, because it'll be even worse for the good people in da hood if these POSs get armed up.
Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that will stop this mess. When it gets too dangerous for them and enough examples are made, they'll stop.
Naw, don't need to kill a bunch of 'em. They'll eventually get tired and go home. These aren't the most motivated people in the world and once all the TVs and other goodies are gone, they'll leave.
SideShow Bob
06-02-2020, 18:43
I needed an interpreter to listen to her. A minute and a half was about all I could take.
She made all her points in the first 30 seconds and proved herself a racist, but continued to repeating everything to remove any possibility of doubt for the next almost 10 minutes.
BPTactical
06-02-2020, 20:47
And What did the HR rep of our former common employer say ? “That it is impossible for a black person to be racist ”. ?
LOL
Great-Kazoo
06-03-2020, 07:34
https://i.redd.it/fp2wijw0pxn41.jpg
To be honest, if I owned a gun store, I'd kinda feel like it was my moral obligation to make sure that looters stayed out, because it'll be even worse for the good people in da hood if these POSs get armed up.
Naw, don't need to kill a bunch of 'em. They'll eventually get tired and go home. These aren't the most motivated people in the world and once all the TVs and other goodies are gone, they'll leave.
Once their money backers stop, they'll leave
DavieD55
06-03-2020, 12:59
https://youtu.be/rGwAjPgo8Jc
Bailey Guns
06-03-2020, 13:32
Never heard of those guys before. Lotta wisdom between those two.
http://ace.mu.nu/
George-Soros-Backed Leftwing Radical Attorney General Kim Gardner Has Released Every Single Rioter and Looter Arrested in St. Louis
—Ace
So if we're "protesting", we can steal and burn everything in our path, and then go home and enjoy the fruits of someone else's labor. It's like welfare, without all that pesky paperwork.
Never heard of those guys before. Lotta wisdom between those two.
Same. Subscribed and am checking out more of their content.
http://youtu.be/XEgkQuxcrCk
Once their money backers stop, they'll leave
Unfortunately, the "enhanced" unemployment benefits last for 39 weeks. The .gov is their backing.
Martinjmpr
06-03-2020, 16:26
IMO this is not even a "race" issue, rather it's a police accountability issue.
Making it about BLACK lives unnecessarily removes from the debate a whole lot of bad behavior by the cops that angers people, simply because the recipients of said bad behavior were not black.
I'm thinking of all the cases where police kicked in people's doors based on a warrant that was obtained through lies or specious "evidence", cases where police shot people's dogs, destroyed or stole their property and were never held accountable for it.
I know that at least one discussion that has come up has been the curtailment, or outright elimination, of the doctrine of Qualified Immunity for law enforcement officers. If agencies knew they could be successfully sued by victims of misbehaving cops, they might be less likely to employ them.
Colo Spgs now has a curfew, 10pm - 5am, through Monday
https://gazette.com/news/crime/public-safety/colorado-springs-curfew-announced-for-public-safety-amid-protests-in-city/article_28470fbe-a5c2-11ea-aa9c-67a6965b2d85.html
I thought I heard some shouting between 3-4 this morning, but it wasn't loud enough to be close by. Could have been my imagination, who knows. I am nowhere near downtown, FWIW.
The Minnesota bail out fund (funded primarily by celebrities), for protestors and rioters alike, is up to $20 million.
The Minnesota bail out fund (funded primarily by celebrities), for protestors and rioters alike, is up to $20 million.
Actually, it is for "white supremacists" [ROFL1]
Colo Spgs now has a curfew, 10pm - 5am, through Monday
https://gazette.com/news/crime/public-safety/colorado-springs-curfew-announced-for-public-safety-amid-protests-in-city/article_28470fbe-a5c2-11ea-aa9c-67a6965b2d85.html
I thought I heard some shouting between 3-4 this morning, but it wasn't loud enough to be close by. Could have been my imagination, who knows. I am nowhere near downtown, FWIW.
Colorado Springs thread just became reality.
Colorado Springs thread just became reality.
Yes, I am guilty of hubris. Not for the first time [facepalm]
Great-Kazoo
06-03-2020, 18:28
The Minnesota bail out fund (funded primarily by celebrities), for protestors and rioters alike, is up to $20 million.
Maybe they should apply that to the Repreations movement.
This curfew will seriously impact the weekend shift for Staff Duty and CQ at Fort Carson. All lower enlisted will be stuck in the barracks. Article 15 uptick, here they come. Lol.
Floyd's gofundme is up to over 12 mil dang
This curfew will seriously impact the weekend shift for Staff Duty and CQ at Fort Carson. All lower enlisted will be stuck in the barracks. Article 15 uptick, here they come. Lol.
Shirley those folks would fall within the "going to and from work" exception. I trust in the discretion of CSPD regarding folks in uniform driving on Powers/Academy/115/etc at the buttcrack of dawn. Black-hoody hipsters scoping out Target at midnight...well that should be treated a bit differently [Stick]
BushMasterBoy
06-03-2020, 19:24
Pueblo is open with no curfew. Biggest threat is from the rabbits with tularemia.
https://krdo.com/news/2020/06/03/pueblo-health-officials-warn-of-rabbit-fever/
Pueblo is open with no curfew. Biggest threat is from the rabbits with tularemia.
https://krdo.com/news/2020/06/03/pueblo-health-officials-warn-of-rabbit-fever/
Are there roadblocks from the 'Blo to Pueblo West?
Agree.
IMO this is not even a "race" issue, rather it's a police accountability issue.
Making it about BLACK lives unnecessarily removes from the debate a whole lot of bad behavior by the cops that angers people, simply because the recipients of said bad behavior were not black.
I'm thinking of all the cases where police kicked in people's doors based on a warrant that was obtained through lies or specious "evidence", cases where police shot people's dogs, destroyed or stole their property and were never held accountable for it.
I know that at least one discussion that has come up has been the curtailment, or outright elimination, of the doctrine of Qualified Immunity for law enforcement officers. If agencies knew they could be successfully sued by victims of misbehaving cops, they might be less likely to employ them.
IMO this is not even a "race" issue, rather it's a police accountability issue.
Making it about BLACK lives unnecessarily removes from the debate a whole lot of bad behavior by the cops that angers people, simply because the recipients of said bad behavior were not black.
I'm thinking of all the cases where police kicked in people's doors based on a warrant that was obtained through lies or specious "evidence", cases where police shot people's dogs, destroyed or stole their property and were never held accountable for it.
I know that at least one discussion that has come up has been the curtailment, or outright elimination, of the doctrine of Qualified Immunity for law enforcement officers. If agencies knew they could be successfully sued by victims of misbehaving cops, they might be less likely to employ them.
Your white privilege is showing.
[Sarcasm2]
George Floyd autopsy report released. If you guessed Covid-19...:
https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/incoming/article22135638.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_BREAKING-George-Floyd-autopsy-report-released.jpg
Great-Kazoo
06-03-2020, 22:11
what happens when you interrupt cartel $$
https://thegrio.com/2020/06/03/latin-gangs-black-chicago-protesters/
Arizona cops recover over $46G in products looted from mall in George Floyd riots (https://www.foxnews.com/us/arizona-george-floyd-fashion-square-mall-recovered-loot)
The Fashion Square chaos resulted in millions of dollars in damage and at least one assault, ABC 15 reported.
One of the suspects, Maurianna Griffin, 30, allegedly had more than $28,000 in stolen goods in her possession, the outlet reported. Most of it was designer bags and sunglasses.
Five of the other eight suspects were described as “roommates” between 18 and 19 years old. Police recovered $11,000 in stolen property from two of them, according to the report, and charged the others with trespassing. The remaining two suspects each allegedly possessed about $4,000 of property stolen from the mall.
Since when have people started using a capital "G" as a short hand for thousand? I mean in the sense of an article title, not a rap song.
Since when have people started using a capital "G" as a short hand for thousand? I mean in the sense of an article title, not a rap song.
That's what I noticed as well when seeing the headline. I had to open the article to be sure. Not sure why they didn't say "$46K".
Then again, the English language is butchered regularly by media. Nobody proofreads. I think the authors are also given editorial control over their own content, so they're blind to their mistakes. The thought is in their head, so they don't realize how their words don't accurately convey their message.
I guess $46K makes even less sense than $46G, at least from the perspective of someone learning English anyway.
Great-Kazoo
06-03-2020, 23:11
Since when have people started using a capital "G" as a short hand for thousand? I mean in the sense of an article title, not a rap song.
Since they started using twitter as the basis for any news story. TWITTER POSTER IS SHOOK AT LANGUAGE USED IN RIOT, BY STATE POLICE.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dont-kill-them-hit-them-190018332.html
Krystal Marx, the woman who captured the footage, said the incident left her “shaking.”
Krystal, in the real world some people use much worse language than that. BESIDES. you should be applauding said trooper for exercising restraint.
Aloha_Shooter
06-04-2020, 00:49
Since when have people started using a capital "G" as a short hand for thousand? I mean in the sense of an article title, not a rap song.
Since at least the 1920s. Long before the Internet age caused people to refer to thousands as kilos and hence "K", organized crime and then pop culture referred to thousands as "grand" or "G".
Referring to thousands as "K" has been around a lot longer than the internet.
battlemidget
06-04-2020, 07:28
Referring to thousands as "K" has been around a lot longer than the internet.
I like 'M' better
I like 'M' better
Just how old are you? Mamma Mia!! :)
I like 'M' better
In other late breaking news, the Roman empire has fallen.
Andrew McCarthy: 'Institutional racism' among police? Let's look at the numbers (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/institutional-racism-among-police-examine-numbers-andrew-mccarthy)
Another revelation of white privilege:
About twice as many white people as black people are killed by police. In fact, in about 75 percent of police shootings, the decedent is not black.
Of course, that is not what you would grasp from consuming media.
Take the website statista.com, specifically its breathless focus on “Hate crime in the United States” — counterfactually insinuating that any shooting involving a black victim must be a “hate crime.” Here’s their big headline from Tuesday: “Black Americans 2.5X More Likely Than Whites to Be Killed By Police.”
It is fiction. It is sheer demagoguery, peddled as American cities are besieged by rioters in the wake of George Floyd’s killing by Minneapolis police.
The falsity of the claim is demonstrated even by statista.com itself. Just three days ago, the site posted another series of bar graphs, showing that, in fact, whites are nearly twice as likely as blacks to be shot to death by police. Here are the numbers:
Year White Black
2017 457 223
2018 399 209
2019 370 235
2020 (so far) 42 31
I'm very pleased to observe that suddenly everyone, on both sides of the political aisle, believes that peaceful protest is a fundamental American right, and that we should not interfere with that.
This is going to make it a lot easier for us to hold pro-2A rallies. No more permits, no more scheduling with City & County of Denver. We just pick our own time and place, make some signs, and show up. The police, media, and public will be supportive.
Civic Center Park looks nice. Blocking I-25 is another possibility, that gets you some great coverage, including helicopter footage.
Let's start planning. This is fantastic!
He is looking at white to black arrest number, then he should look at the ratio to compare.
It is like saying there is more total number of arrest in China than Monaco.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US
Is it just me that finds the optics of police "kneeling in solidarity" as cringeworthy?
Andrew McCarthy: 'Institutional racism' among police? Let's look at the numbers (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/institutional-racism-among-police-examine-numbers-andrew-mccarthy)
Another revelation of white privilege:
Sounds legit. The counter argument I’ve seen to that is percentage of the population.
81772
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino drops the number down to 60.4%, which is still almost 5x the population of African Americans
http://youtu.be/heXwnKry3uo
Is it just me that finds the optics of police "kneeling in solidarity" as cringeworthy?
Yhea, when symbolism conflicts with the act you're protesting...
O2
Zundfolge
06-04-2020, 12:16
Is it just me that finds the optics of police "kneeling in solidarity" as cringeworthy?
Especially because the kneeling isn't solidarity, its subservience and submission. BLM is just African American for KKK.
Is it just me that finds the optics of police "kneeling in solidarity" as cringeworthy?
I think it is kinda half and half.
I see their perspective why they are kneeling with protesters (daytime protesters). <---
But I would like to see many local state official review their apprehension procedure is more important than a PR stunt.
Especially because the kneeling isn't solidarity, its subservience and submission. BLM is just African American for KKK.
Man that's one hell of a statement.
Especially because the kneeling isn't solidarity, its subservience and submission. BLM is just African American for KKK.
Spoken for truth, funny thing is, they both vote democrat.
No klukkers or blm on my team.
Please, go on about how the BLM movement is the same as the KKK. Id absolutely love to hear that.
I'd absolutely love to hear about BLM paying some attention to solving the serious problem of black-on-black violence, like they have every day in Chicago.
...or maybe change their name to PRBLM (Politically Relevant Black Lives Matter).
I'd absolutely love to hear about BLM paying some attention to solving the serious problem of black-on-black violence, like they have every day in Chicago.
...or maybe change their name to PRBLM (Politically Relevant Black Lives Matter).
Good news, it's been written about since the first time that came up!
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/07/27/why-doesnt-black-lives-matter-doesnt-focus-talk-about-black-black-crime/87609692/
It’s a question asked, in various forms, from Facebook to cable networks to comments on this site. The answer, one writer says, is Black Lives Matter isn’t solely focused on the loss of black lives but also on a lack of justice.
“When a civilian has committed a violent crime, they’re generally arrested, tried and then convicted,” Franchesca Ramsey, a writer and activist who discusses race, explains in the MTV series Decoded (which you can watch here in full).
“Conversely, there’s a lot of evidence that it’s very rare to secure an indictment against a police officer for excessive force. And an indictment is just a trial; it isn’t even a conviction.”
“Black Lives Matter isn’t just about the loss of life, which is always terrible. It’s about the lack of consequences when black lives are taken at the hands of police.”
Police officers shot and killed nearly 1,000 people last year, according to a Washington Post database. Eighteen officers faced charges for such shootings that year.
While nearly twice as many white Americans were killed by on-duty officers than blacks, the Post’s updated data showed, black Americans remained 2.5 times as likely to die at the hands of police when adjusting for population.
And when unarmed, the data showed that black Americans were five times as likely to be fatally shot as white ones.
Too bad Daniel Shaver didn't fall into not getting shot category for whites, I guess.
Too bad Daniel Shaver didn't fall into not getting shot category for whites, I guess.
And the cop who did it got re-hired so he could go out on a medical PTSD pension, which he no shit claimed was from shooting Shaver. Another great argument for reform even when race is not a factor.
Definitely needs to be reform. I remember watching the Shaver video and the commands they gave Shaver were ludicrous given he was already down with his hands on his head.
The Motel/Hotel hallway shooter (Shaver) was damn crazy too. The Facebook live feed shooting inside the vehicle looked very very bad as well.
hollohas
06-04-2020, 21:48
I don't know if this was posted yet, but here is the story behind the badass who disarmed the couple antifa douchebags in Seattle if you all are interested.
https://coffeeordie.com/marine-seattle-protest/
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, City Officials Cutting $100 Million-$150 Million From LAPD Budget, Funds To Be Reinvested In Communities Of Color (https://deadline.com/2020/06/los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti-city-officials-cutting-100-150-million-from-lapd-budget-funds-to-be-reinvested-in-communities-of-color-1202950811/amp/)
Makes sense. Less funding for better use of force training. Less money to help draw the most qualified employment candidates.
Should be interesting to see how they will wisely use this money to serve the "people of color" held down by the racist whites in charge.
So you think this will lead to a safer community?
Great-Kazoo
06-04-2020, 23:26
Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti, City Officials Cutting $100 Million-$150 Million From LAPD Budget, Funds To Be Reinvested In Communities Of Color (https://deadline.com/2020/06/los-angeles-mayor-eric-garcetti-city-officials-cutting-100-150-million-from-lapd-budget-funds-to-be-reinvested-in-communities-of-color-1202950811/amp/)
Makes sense. Less funding for better use of force training. Less money to help draw the most qualified employment candidates.
Should be interesting to see how they will wisely use this money to serve the "people of color" held down by the racist whites in charge.
So you think this will lead to a safer community?
What no one pays attention to is. The D's are the white racist, in charge. Especially in CA, of all places.
DavieD55
06-05-2020, 03:28
I don't know if this was posted yet, but here is the story behind the badass who disarmed the couple antifa douchebags in Seattle if you all are interested.
https://coffeeordie.com/marine-seattle-protest/
He did everyone there a favor including the shithead with the rolling stones hoodie on.
DavieD55
06-05-2020, 04:11
EXCLUSIVE: As We Suspected Groups Behind the Riots Include Domestic Terrorists, Black Lives Matter, US Islamists and Others Linked to the Democrat Party
By Joe Hoft (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/author/joehoft/)
Published June 1, 2020 at 7:38am
We reported a couple days ago (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/past-history-highly-likely-groups-behind-todays-riots-domestic-terrorists-revolutionary-communists-us-based-radical-islamist-orgs-others-related-democrat-party/) that recent riots in the US in many Democrat-led cities around the country are hardly spontaneous. They appear coordinated.
We suspected these riots were related to the same individuals involved in similar activities over the past year or years. These people were related to US based Islamist Organizations, domestic terrorists and others related to the Democrat Party.
We were right!
There clearly was no reason for the mass riots taking place around the country after the death of the individual at the hands of the police in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Everyone who saw the police brutality was appalled and outraged at the sight of the policeman kneeling on the victims neck for an incredibly long period of time. The man died. But nothing warrants the wholesale destruction of property and and riots around the US since that event.
Complete Article Gateway Pundit (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/06/exclusive-suspected-groups-behind-riots-include-domestic-terrorists-black-lives-matter-us-islamists-others-linked-democrat-party/)
Great-Kazoo
06-05-2020, 07:06
Please, go on about how the BLM movement is the same as the KKK. Id absolutely love to hear that.
You mean the Klan with a Tan?
Ok i'll give it a shot
Both founded and continue to exist based on lies.
the klan still believes they're superior to the lower races / POC's
BLM to this day still believes the
Hands Up , Don't Shoot lie that was a fabrication of st swishers partner in crime. Hell it's part of their ongoing playbook, for recruiting and agenda.
Who under questioning, admitted that's not what happened, at all . BUT BLM, the media, opinion writers as well as those, who for some reason ignore the results of Obamas DOJ, FBI and other agencies findings.
That truth is, brown ignored officer wilsons order and decided he was going to get in to a wrestling match for wilsons gun. Facts backed up later, by locals (also POC's) who at the time were afraid of the backlash from thugs and agitators to come forward.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 07:51
Please, go on about how the BLM movement is the same as the KKK. Id absolutely love to hear that.
I'll give you a way their different:
The KKK is up front and open about their racism.
You mean the Klan with a Tan?
Ok i'll give it a shot
Both founded and continue to exist based on lies.
the klan still believes they're superior to the lower races / POC's
BLM to this day still believes the
Hands Up , Don't Shoot lie that was a fabrication of st swishers partner in crime. Hell it's part of their ongoing playbook, for recruiting and agenda.
Who under questioning, admitted that's not what happened, at all . BUT BLM, the media, opinion writers as well as those, who for some reason ignore the results of Obamas DOJ, FBI and other agencies findings.
That truth is, brown ignored officer wilsons order and decided he was going to get in to a wrestling match for wilsons gun. Facts backed up later, by locals (also POC's) who at the time were afraid of the backlash from thugs and agitators to come forward.
That's really your argument? That BLM is equivalent to the KKK, an organization that since reconstruction, especially during that time and again from the 20s through the height of our civil rights era, has spent its time terrorizing minorities to include widespread theft, rape, murder, arson, with the goal of a return to a segregated, and ideally slave based state, because their chant didn't match the final testimony regarding an event that happened after they were founded?
I know I'm just shouting into the void here, but goddamn guys, do a little but of thinking on this stuff. You can not like something, you can not agree with it, but try to have just a little intellectual honesty.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 08:22
I know I'm just shouting into the void here, but goddamn guys, do a little but of thinking on this stuff. You can not like something, you can not agree with it, but try to have just a little intellectual honesty.
Would you "guys" please stop referring to one person you've quoted as "you guys" or "guys"? Try just a little intellectual honesty and realize you're answering or discussing with one person and not the forum in it's entirety.
Would you "guys" please stop referring to one person you've quoted as "you guys" or "guys"? Try just a little intellectual honesty and realize you're answering or discussing with one person and not the forum in it's entirety.
That's fair, but I've got no desire to limit it to Kazoo as he's not the only one who said it/agreed to it, nor the only one doing drive bys with easily replied to statements asking why doesn't BLM care about black on black violence, then ignoring the reply and going on to whatever else.
I've been teetering on this forum for awhile, I've met some cool people on here, and I really liked when we talked about guns, or when we could discuss current events without getting to the point of craziness like "BLM is the African American KKK" and being the only one saying hey this is pretty fucking out there. I'll go ahead and leave everybody to it, I don't think I'm changing anybody's mind on anything and we're not even in a fact-based argument at this point, and seems to be that way on on a lot of things. I'd advise everyone to seriously take stock of why they don't like particular movements rather than going into whataboutism, and to also consider that other groups succeeding doesn't necessarily take away from you, and may even have a nice "rising tide lifts all boats" impact. Not everybody has to be your enemy, and you (and the gun community as a whole) are missing out on chances to both acknowledge issues in the world and gain new 2A supporters, especially younger ones, who are coming around on the need to be armed for traditional 2A reasons, even if they don't agree with you on a lot of other things.
After watching what?s been going on, I?m beginning to wonder if the people looking for an excuse to agitate were also largely the police involved.
It?s sad that this behavior is commonplace amongst police at this time, makes me wonder how many jobs will be lost on the force or if cops won?t be held accountable for their actions.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/04/buffalo-police-shove-man-to-the-ground-causing-him-to-bleed-from-head/
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 09:12
After watching what?s been going on, I?m beginning to wonder if the people looking for an excuse to agitate were also largely the police involved.
It?s sad that this behavior is commonplace amongst police at this time, makes me wonder how many jobs will be lost on the force or if cops won?t be held accountable for their actions.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/04/buffalo-police-shove-man-to-the-ground-causing-him-to-bleed-from-head/
This is exactly what I spoke about in an earlier post. At some point people need to start taking responsibility for their actions. I am not saying the officers were correct or justified in what they did and I'm not defending them. Having said that, let's just look at some facts of the situation:
It's after curfew. The man isn't even supposed to be on the street. He approaches a skirmish line of officers and appears to argue with them...about what I don't know. He reaches towards the officer on his right and may have even touched him or something on his belt. They were telling him to leave but he wasn't having any of it. Then he gets shoved...and it really wasn't a violent shove. He is not innocent in this situation. A third officer immediately, within seconds, appears to radio for medical assistance and it appears the guys in camo were medics/EMTs. It's very dangerous for officers to stop and focus on this guy while he's on the ground due to the risk of bottles and bricks and other objects being thrown at them. That's why they continued to advance. Not because they didn't want to assist.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for this guy. I don't think he "had it coming", but he chose to place himself into a dangerous situation. And I don't think the officer that shoved him at all meant for that to happen. He even looked very distressed by it. I think this is simply a situation that spiraled out of control based on poor decision making and poor reaction to that poor decision. Hindsight says the officers should've just handcuffed him and taken him into custody rather than try to push him back. But who knows how he would've reacted to that?
ETA: The part that pisses me off the most is now this asshat is gonna be rewarded for his piss poor decision making ability and two officers are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. This is the type of situation that normalizes bad behavior and costs everyone...not just those directly involved...a lot of wasted time, money and resources.
How about DPD firing pepper balls at passing cars?
https://youtu.be/_cCwmAB5vc4
This is exactly what I spoke about in an earlier post. At some point people need to start taking responsibility for their actions. I am not saying the officers were correct or justified in what they did and I'm not defending them. Having said that, let's just look at some facts of the situation:
It's after curfew. The man isn't even supposed to be on the street. He approaches a skirmish line of officers and appears to argue with them...about what I don't know. He reaches towards the officer on his right and may have even touched him or something on his belt. They were telling him to leave but he wasn't having any of it. Then he gets shoved...and it really wasn't a violent shove. He is not innocent in this situation. A third officer immediately, within seconds, appears to radio for medical assistance and it appears the guys in camo were medics/EMTs. It's very dangerous for officers to stop and focus on this guy while he's on the ground due to the risk of bottles and bricks and other objects being thrown at them. That's why they continued to advance. Not because they didn't want to assist.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for this guy. I don't think he "had it coming", but he chose to place himself into a dangerous situation. And I don't think the officer that shoved him at all meant for that to happen. He even looked very distressed by it. I think this is simply a situation that spiraled out of control based on poor decision making and poor reaction to that poor decision. Hindsight says the officers should've just handcuffed him and taken him into custody rather than try to push him back. But who knows how he would've reacted to that?
ETA: The part that pisses me off the most is now this asshat is gonna be rewarded for his piss poor decision making ability and two officers are in jeopardy of losing their jobs. This is the type of situation that normalizes bad behavior and costs everyone...not just those directly involved...a lot of wasted time, money and resources.
Makes me wonder what your thoughts are on women wearing dresses out after dark...
Was she really just asking to be raped?
Looks like he was trying to return one of their helmets.
Seems like he should have worn it instead.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 09:33
Makes me wonder what your thoughts are on women wearing dresses out after dark...
Was she really just asking to be raped?
That is quite possibly the most stupid and ignorant analogy in the history of analogies.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 09:35
Looks like he was trying to return one of their helmets.
Seems like he should have worn it instead.
I'm thinking that's his motorcycle helmet.
buffalobo
06-05-2020, 09:41
Makes me wonder what your thoughts are on women wearing dresses out after dark...
Was she really just asking to be raped?"I know I'm just shouting into the void here, but goddamn guys, do a little but of thinking on this stuff. You can not like something, you can not agree with it, but try to have just a little intellectual honesty."
DavieD55
06-05-2020, 09:47
Here's an interesting read. You can listen to the audio book on youtube for free. It's just over 8 hours long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiGCeg3qK4Q
https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1438306030i/25408894._UY500_SS500_.jpg
That is quite possibly the most stupid and ignorant analogy in the history of analogies.
I’m going to take that as you saying they all get what they deserve.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 10:18
Well then you're just a fool and not worth attempting to discuss an issue that's obviously too complicated for you to understand.
Rather than making ridiculous statements like I think "they all get what they deserve", why don't you try to defend your analogy? Tell me why a woman, engaged in a perfectly legal activity, is viciously attacked thru no fault of her own, in any way equates to a man, engaged in illegal activity, in a place where he shouldn't be in the first place because of rioting, demonstrations and very high tensions between police and citizens, approaches a police skirmish line and is shoved?
Please tell me. How is that the same? And, please, explain to me how you came to the conclusion I think anyone "had it coming" when I specifically said I don't think he "had it coming" and gave a very valid and coherent explanation of why I think he AND the police were wrong? You've got this all figured out so explain it to me.
You're a perfect example of why discussion rarely leads anywhere. You respond with illogical emotion rather than well thought out reasoning. You damn well know there is no basis for your stating I think women have it coming when they're raped because of how they're dressed. You say stupid shit like that because it's inflammatory and makes you feel like you've captured someone in the perfect "gotcha" moment. It certainly isn't because it makes sense.
After watching what?s been going on, I?m beginning to wonder if the people looking for an excuse to agitate were also largely the police involved.
It?s sad that this behavior is commonplace amongst police at this time, makes me wonder how many jobs will be lost on the force or if cops won?t be held accountable for their actions.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/04/buffalo-police-shove-man-to-the-ground-causing-him-to-bleed-from-head/
Rest assured, there is zero justification for what that officer did and there is support for his prosecution here.
Likewise, what one officer does is not used to cast judgment on the other 499,998 officers, much as video of a black, hispanic, or white individual looting a store isn't used to cast judgment on everyone of their respective races.
Irrespective of if a protester is in the wrong or right, an officer should use only appropriate and necessary force, and additionally in these circumstances, all need to be KEENLY aware of the optics.
Officers are under increased pressure these days, and unfortunately the tiny fraction of garbage (somewhere between 1/100 to 1/1000?) is now in an increased position to show their asses, and here the media is focused only on garbage, people get a false impression that the only thing on the road is garbage trucks.
A solution isn't about money, or training, it's somehow cleaving these pieces of garbage from the forces. However, I know of no pragmatic way to do that and that problem exists in EVERY career field, sometimes with far greater ratios (law, politics). Maybe if great minds focused on a resolution for that, we could ditch the questionaires and "lie detectors" which are currently used and do legitimate screening to wash out that shit, leaving only clean water.
Well then you're just a fool and not worth attempting to discuss an issue that's obviously too complicated for you to understand.
Rather than making ridiculous statements like I think "they all get what they deserve", why don't you try to defend your analogy? Tell me why a woman, engaged in a perfectly legal activity, is viciously attacked thru no fault of her own, in any way equates to a man, engaged in illegal activity, in a place where he shouldn't be in the first place because of rioting, demonstrations and very high tensions between police and citizens, approaches a police skirmish line and is shoved?
Please tell me. How is that the same? And, please, explain to me how you came to the conclusion I think anyone "had it coming" when I specifically said I don't think he "had it coming" and gave a very valid and coherent explanation of why I think he AND the police were wrong? You've got this all figured out so explain it to me.
You're a perfect example of why discussion rarely leads anywhere. You respond with illogical emotion rather than well thought out reasoning. You damn well know there is no basis for your stating I think women have it coming when they're raped because of how they're dressed. You say stupid shit like that because it's inflammatory and makes you feel like you've captured someone in the perfect "gotcha" moment. It certainly isn't because it makes sense.
[MOD: COMMENT VIOLATING SITE RULES & INTENTIONALLY INFLAMMATORY HAS BEEN DELETED. - Ginsue]
She should’ve known better than to wear that skirt.
Makes me wonder about your position on the video of the cop in Washington stating that officers should ask them if what they’re doing is right.
I find it mind blowing that people can put so much effort in to rationalizing the use of extreme violence against fellow citizens.
Now I’m even wondering what your thoughts are on Breonna Taylor. Her boyfriend should have just rolled over and got shot too right? Shoot, maybe he shouldn’t have even contested the charges filed against him...
And please people, chill out. There's no official perspective here outside of issues of firearms. Everyone needs to stop trying to make their opinion the "winner" and respect that in everything, there will be other people here that do not align with your own beliefs and perspectives. Agree to disagree.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 10:32
[MOD: COMMENT VIOLATING SITE RULES & INTENTIONALLY INFLAMMATORY HAS BEEN DELETED. - Ginsue]
She should’ve known better than to wear that skirt.
Makes me wonder about your position on the video of the cop in Washington stating that officers should ask them if what they’re doing is right.
I find it mind blowing that people can put so much effort in to rationalizing the use of extreme violence against fellow citizens.
Now I’m even wondering what your thoughts are on Breonna Taylor. Her boyfriend should have just rolled over and got shot too right? Shoot, maybe he shouldn’t have even contested the charges filed against him...
I see. So all you have is the ability to wonder. You don't have the ability to defend anything you've said. Now that you've made that abundantly clear let me ask you another question...which I doubt you'll answer.
Do you think the video we're discussing (I use that term loosely), that shows the man being shoved, is an example of "extreme violence"?
If he didn't have it coming, then the officer was not correct or justified.
I don't see why it's so hard to just say that.
Also, that video is a perfect representation on why I refuse to fight anyone. The potential for a serious head injury (see his left hand all curled up to his chest and legs all rigid? That's bad) over what might amount to nothing is exactly why I consider any physical threat a mortal threat in potential.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 10:45
If he didn't have it coming, then the officer was not correct or justified.
I don't see why it's so hard to just say that.
Also, that video is a perfect representation on why I refuse to fight anyone. The potential for a serious head injury (see his left hand all curled up to his chest and legs all rigid? That's bad) over what might amount to nothing is exactly why I consider any physical threat a mortal threat in potential.
Completely disagree with your first comment. His actions didn't rise to the level of a response from the police that would lead to serious bodily injury...which is what happened. On the other hand, I don't think anyone could have foreseen a simple shove like that resulting in what happened. Kind of an "unintended consequences" thing. I don't think a simple shove by officers in a skirmish line in a high risk area is unwarranted when they're approached by someone who's obviously a little agitated.
I agree with the second part about getting into fights. Hell...just walking down a flight of stairs with my physical issues is risk enough.
I see. So all you have is the ability to wonder. You don't have the ability to defend anything you've said. Now that you've made that abundantly clear let me ask you another question...which I doubt you'll answer.
Do you think the video we're discussing (I use that term loosely), that shows the man being shoved, is an example of "extreme violence"?
Oh, you mean the assault that caused him to be flung to the ground and for blood to rush out of his ears? Do you mean the assault that has gotten those officers off of duty? Do you mean the exact same behavior we are seeing all over the country?
Yeah, I consider that extreme violence, and I say that while also knowing what the extent of extreme violence can encompass.
I answered your question, answer mine about the video of the cop telling other cops to do the right and constitutional thing, tell me your opinion on Beionna Taylor and her boyfriend being charged with attempted murder for shooting at home invaders.
Completely disagree with your first comment. His actions didn't rise to the level of a response from the police that would lead to serious bodily injury...which is what happened. On the other hand, I don't think anyone could have foreseen a simple shove like that resulting in what happened. Kind of an "unintended consequences" thing. I don't think a simple shove by officers in a skirmish line in a high risk area is unwarranted when they're approached by someone who's obviously a little agitated.
I agree with the second part about getting into fights. Hell...just walking down a flight of stairs with my physical issues is risk enough.
If I shove someone and they fall down and get a serious brain injury, do you think I would be able to use the defense of, "I don't think anyone could have foreseen a simple shove like that resulting in what happened"?
Or would I be legally f'ed?
There's your answer.
If I shove someone and they fall down and get a serious brain injury, do you think I would be able to use the defense of, "I don't think anyone could have foreseen a simple shove like that resulting in what happened"?
Or would I be legally f'ed?
There's your answer.
Yup
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 11:08
You can use any defense you want. Assault 1 and 2, which require SBI (which is obviously present here), have the element of intent. Intent is critical to proving an offense. I think you know that.
The DA doesn't just get to prove certain elements of an offense in a prosecution...he has to prove them all. And he has to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yup. There's your answer.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 11:12
I answered your question, answer mine about the video of the cop telling other cops to do the right and constitutional thing, tell me your opinion on Beionna Taylor and her boyfriend being charged with attempted murder for shooting at home invaders.
No...you don't get to play "do as I say, not as I do". You're still ignoring my question re: explaining to me how a woman wearing a dress equals what happened in the video.
You can use any defense you want. Assault 1 and 2, which require SBI (which is obviously present here), have the element of intent. Intent is critical to proving an offense. I think you know that.
The DA doesn't just get to prove certain elements of an offense in a prosecution...he has to prove them all. And he has to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yup. There's your answer.
Hey Bailey, still waiting on your answers to my questions.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 11:12
See above...
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 11:17
Take it any way you want. You do anyway.
Or....
They could have put their zip ties on him. I agree that he was not completely innocent, but if his actions justify a use of force, they justify an arrest. Why is physical violence the go-to?
Edited for spelling
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 11:31
Or....
They could have put their zip ties on him. I agree that he was not completely innocent, but if his a tons justify a use of force, they justify an arrest. Why is physical violence the go-to?
I get what you're saying, but your statement just isn't true. Use of force can be as simple as using a come-along technique to move someone from one place to another or as violent as firing your gun and killing someone. Use of force does not always require an arrest nor does it indicate an arrest would've been appropriate.
However, I said basically the same thing in my original post on this video. In hindsight it would've been better just to handcuff him.
I get what you're saying, but your statement just isn't true. Use of force can be as simple as using a come-along technique to move someone from one place to another or as violent as firing your gun and killing someone. Use of force does not always require an arrest nor does it indicate an arrest would've been appropriate.
However, I said basically the same thing in my original post on this video. In hindsight it would've been better just to handcuff him.
817898179081791
MrAK, are you a paid agitator? Because you're acting like one. Generally I can make sense of a discussion, but your posts are like you are having an entirely different conversation from everyone else.
MrAK, are you a paid agitator? Because you're acting like one. Generally I can make sense of a discussion, but your posts are like you are having an entirely different conversation from everyone else.
Haha, I wish I was being paid for paying attention to what going on in the world around me, and for voicing my own opinions on the matter.
Maybe we would have more open conversation and exchange of ideas if this site hadn’t deleted a video of a cop expressing support for the Constitution and doing what’s right. Instead, we were told that having that video kept up could cost people their jobs (excuse me? For supporting and acknowledging the Constitution?) and that this site doesn’t need the bad optics.
I’m honestly chuckling at the hypocrisy.
[MOD: You obviously weren't paying attention and chose your own explanation for why that video was deleted. While such videos and the associated discussions here can negatively effect the employment of many members here just by association, it is WHY that is the case that made that video and the discussion inappropriate for this site. All of this was stated before but it doesn't meet with YOUR agenda. Happily, your agenda takes a back seat to those who don't have specific agendas to persue - other than keeping this site running smoothly. - Ginsue]
I think that was about the virus, which no one even seems to care about anymore anyway. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
You can use any defense you want. Assault 1 and 2, which require SBI (which is obviously present here), have the element of intent. Intent is critical to proving an offense. I think you know that.
The DA doesn't just get to prove certain elements of an offense in a prosecution...he has to prove them all. And he has to prove them beyond a reasonable doubt.
Yup. There's your answer.
I believe this is a bit of a cop-out. If I shove an old man, and it results in his falling and a brain injury, I'm hosed. I'm probably also hosed in a civil suit. You know that, even if you want to hide behind the facade of justice and the lie that we have a competent system. As for intent, that shouldn't matter when something actually occurs in order for it to meet a criminal onus for X, assuming X does not factor intent. Otherwise we would have one murder charge and not murder 1, 2, manslaughter, etc. That sounds contradictory, potentially. Let me explain: we differentiate based on intent, such that certain crimes do not require intent for the subsequent result to color whether a crime occurred. Ergo, if I intend to murder someone, I intend murder. But if I commit manslaughter, my intention never being to kill still has me guilty of manslaughter.
Reversing the roles, what do you think the likely result would be if the old man shoved the cop, not intending to have him strike his head on the ground, but it resulted not only in that, but also blood pouring from his ear and being admitted to the hospital in serious condition?
Any way, NY State law doesn't require intent for Assault 2.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 12:27
As for intent, that shouldn't matter when something actually occurs in order for it to meet a criminal onus for X, assuming X does not factor intent.
Well, if you don't think elements of the offense matter then there's really no reason to discuss further. That's exactly why there are differing levels of assault, sex assault, murder, etc. Intent matters a lot.
Reversing the roles, what do you think the likely result would be if the old man shoved the cop, not intending to have him strike his head on the ground, but it resulted not only in that, but also blood pouring from his ear and being admitted to the hospital in serious condition?
Well, he'd be in trouble. For good reason the penalty for assaulting public servants (not just cops) is greater than it is for ordinary citizens. Just like elderly and the very young have protected status. But let's not forget... That isn't what happened here. I'm not trying to defend the outcome here. I'm really not. I'm trying to look at this objectively. That really seems to be something a lot of people not only won't do, but can't do. There's a reason "totality of the circumstances" is important.
Any way, NY State law doesn't require intent for Assault 2.
DEFINING NY PENAL LAW 120.05(1)
You are guilty of Assault in the Second Degree, NY Penal Law 120.05(1), if you have the intent to cause serious physical injury to someone and actually cause serious physical to that person or another person.https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/assault-in-the-second-degree-new-york-penal-law-section-120-05.html#:~:text=You%20are%20guilty%20of%20Assault, that%20person%20or%20another%20person.
Lmao, might want to change this:
81792
I feel as though it should read as:
The State First, citizens and undesirables a distant second
I haven't followed every post so I'm likely interjecting in the middle of some huge discussion, but my two cents is that we absolutely have a police excessive force issue. And for those of us who support the 2nd amendment, which happens to be under constant assault, that should concern us as the next protest might be us protesting the repeal of the 2nd amendment. Police have a very difficult job. Probably one of the most difficult psychologically in the country. But we still need to hold them to a very strict set of rules. They are given far too much leeway in many cases and it is very difficult to discipline officers involved with excessive force charges.
All that being said, statistics dont really show there is a systemic racism problem. That doesnt mean you wont get someone here or there that is racist and abuses his power, but it's rare according to a wide variety of statistics. I'm not afraid to call out racism when it's there, we need to be able to do that. But that doesnt mean every situation with white on black crime is due to racism and it cheapens the term when we blanket label all cases.
Well, if you don't think elements of the offense matter then there's really no reason to discuss further. That's exactly why there are differing levels of assault, sex assault, murder, etc. Intent matters a lot.
Well, he'd be in trouble. For good reason the penalty for assaulting public servants (not just cops) is greater than it is for ordinary citizens. Just like elderly and the very young have protected status. But let's not forget... That isn't what happened here. I'm not trying to defend the outcome here. I'm really not. I'm trying to look at this objectively. That really seems to be something a lot of people not only won't do, but can't do. There's a reason "totality of the circumstances" is important.
https://www.new-york-lawyers.org/assault-in-the-second-degree-new-york-penal-law-section-120-05.html#:~:text=You%20are%20guilty%20of%20Assault, that%20person%20or%20another%20person.
You forgot 120.05 #4, which doesn't necessitate intent. If I am holding and use (even to push, as the officer did with the baton) said deadly instrument or weapon when I commit said crime, I'm 99.9% sure they would count that.
"4. He recklessly causes serious physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or"
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-120-05.html
(https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-120-05.html)
buffalobo
06-05-2020, 13:03
I haven't followed every post so I'm likely interjecting in the middle of some huge discussion, but my two cents is that we absolutely have a police excessive force issue. And for those of us who support the 2nd amendment, which happens to be under constant assault, that should concern us as the next protest might be us protesting the repeal of the 2nd amendment. Police have a very difficult job. Probably one of the most difficult psychologically in the country. But we still need to hold them to a very strict set of rules. They are given far too much leeway in many cases and it is very difficult to discipline officers involved with excessive force charges.
All that being said, statistics dont really show there is a systemic racism problem. That doesnt mean you wont get someone here or there that is racist and abuses his power, but it's rare according to a wide variety of statistics. I'm not afraid to call out racism when it's there, we need to be able to do that. But that doesnt mean every situation with white on black crime is due to racism and it cheapens the term when we blanket label all cases.
[AR15][Beer]
Speaking of "I was just following order defense, ..... "
Yes, this is Law Enforcement , not military. (so was Gestapo)
Zero sympathy, but those 2 officers on the side who were on the job for 4 days. It really sucks.
Off Topic 1: Ben Kingsly is a great actor. He played Ghandi and Nazi officer?
Off Topic 2: I think many dept management and supervisors are getting away with giving questionable orders. That shit has to stop.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/611/737/bad.png
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/611/625/d24.png
https://cdn.britannica.com/57/67857-050-3A2EEE25/Adolf-Eichmann-court-counts-Jerusalem-war-crimes-1961.jpg
I haven't followed every post so I'm likely interjecting in the middle of some huge discussion, but my two cents is that we absolutely have a police excessive force issue. And for those of us who support the 2nd amendment, which happens to be under constant assault, that should concern us as the next protest might be us protesting the repeal of the 2nd amendment. Police have a very difficult job. Probably one of the most difficult psychologically in the country. But we still need to hold them to a very strict set of rules. They are given far too much leeway in many cases and it is very difficult to discipline officers involved with excessive force charges.
All that being said, statistics dont really show there is a systemic racism problem. That doesnt mean you wont get someone here or there that is racist and abuses his power, but it's rare according to a wide variety of statistics. I'm not afraid to call out racism when it's there, we need to be able to do that. But that doesnt mean every situation with white on black crime is due to racism and it cheapens the term when we blanket label all cases.
Thank you.
theGinsue
06-05-2020, 13:21
Well, here we are again - right where I've posted many times in the last several months not to go to.
This is a DISCUSSION forum, NOT an argument forum. The staff gets criticized when we shut down a thread 'cuz "just a discussion". This thread is not a discussion, it is a 457 post argument.
If you want to argue, find another venue because it won't be tolerated here!
If I see another post that even hints at not being a calm, rational comment and gives any indication of being argumentative, this thread will be closed.
The staff has to watch the whole site and may not catch something immediately. If a member sees something inappropriate, "Report Post" the post and we'll take action as quickly as possible.
Civility people, civility.
The entire Buffalo ERT resigned from the team. 57 of 'em, to show support for 2 suspended officers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3153626001
hollohas
06-05-2020, 14:52
The entire Buffalo ERT resigned from the team. 57 of 'em, to show support for 2 suspended officers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3153626001Whoa. Going into what could be an active weekend. That sure makes a statement.
I bet we'll be seeing similar responses from at least a couple other agencies around the country.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 15:08
You forgot 120.05 #4, which doesn't necessitate intent. If I am holding and use (even to push, as the officer did with the baton) said deadly instrument or weapon when I commit said crime, I'm 99.9% sure they would count that.
"4. He recklessly causes serious physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument; or"
https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-120-05.html
(https://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-120-05.html)
No, I didn't forget. I'm just of the opinion it wouldn't apply in this case. But we'll see what the DA says. I see the entire political establishment in NY has already come to the conclusion they're guilty of something and need to be punished. Never mind that they are entitled to due process just like anyone else.
I find it a little ironic that basically that's part of the problem that led to this entire shit show. A man was deprived of his life without due process. So now we're having protests and demonstrations and riots and all sorts of unrest because of that. But how quickly so many seem to forget that EVERYONE is entitled to due process.
Great-Kazoo
06-05-2020, 15:13
That's really your argument? That BLM is equivalent to the KKK, an organization that since reconstruction, especially during that time and again from the 20s through the height of our civil rights era, has spent its time terrorizing minorities to include widespread theft, rape, murder, arson, with the goal of a return to a segregated, and ideally slave based state, because their chant didn't match the final testimony regarding an event that happened after they were founded?
I know I'm just shouting into the void here, but goddamn guys, do a little but of thinking on this stuff. You can not like something, you can not agree with it, but try to have just a little intellectual honesty.
I only highlighted part of it for a reply. Yes that is what i said. BLM has risen out of a false narrative to push a victim agenda. While they are not publicly (atm) shaking down business and local governments as J jackson and sharpton do. Their M.O is obvious to anyone who reads up on them. As for widespread etc The riots we are seeing should answer that question.
Blm is a problem i equate to the kkk. While not established, or as old as them, thye are the same. Sorry you don't see that.
Regarding a segregated country. It goes back much further than the BLM movement, which is only gearing up for another push, come election time. This is from a org i despise for it's bias. yet actually had the stones to point out NoI's stance.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
.
. The Nation of Islam has millions of followers who push this. Whites don't have the monolopy on segregation ideology
https://www.noi.org/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/louis-farrakhan-calls-for-separate-state-for-black-americans-says-thats-what-god-wants
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan
As much as i don't like Farrakhan as a person, i admire his honesty.
He's fairly low key, compared to the shakedown artist we see, when issues as this come up. Those are the ones one needs to pay attention to, no matter the color of their skin.
The entire Buffalo ERT resigned from the team. 57 of 'em, to show support for 2 suspended officers.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3153626001
I respect them for putting their money where their mouth is. It's rare to see that. Not completely sure I agree with the innocence of the suspended officers, but much respect for standing up for what they believe in. It's always dangerous to judge based on a short video.
I will say it would not surprise me to see mass resignations. Some officers really like their job and it's tough to get into, but you also dont make a fortune and between the abuse in the streets and abuse in the media, some may say screw it. While I do think we have a major abuse problem, people lose sight of the good police do to keep us safe. You can believe both concurrently. If you get mass resignations and there is still unrest gpong on, could get real interesting.
It's sort of crazy LA talks about cutting funding for LAPD, I mean some neighborhoods have a huge amount of black on black homicides. So the key is to limit police presence?
hollohas
06-05-2020, 15:40
It's sort of crazy LA talks about cutting funding for LAPD, I mean some neighborhoods have a huge amount of black on black homicides. So the key is to limit police presence?
Minneapolis is talking about completely "dismantling" their PD.
Crazy times we're in.
Good cops gets punished for very few bad ones.
( you can substitute cop with CEOs, Chairman, senators , etc)
There are also few who panic and use deadly ___ from fear.
If people favor less physical police,I think we might be going to where British and Chinese are doing with policing.
Massive amount of survalences, cameras, drones, etc.
Some might like it, and may be it might be safer. I personally think there will be no privacy with this route.
I pick physical police over massive amount of camera and drones.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 16:23
Fortunately we have government at every level that is exceedingly adept at knee-jerk responses. I have no doubt this issue will be resolved in the most bass-ackwards way possible and will cost far more money than anyone can afford. And we'll all be worse off with the solution than we were the problem.
If people favor less physical police,I think we might be going to where British and Chinese are doing with policing.
Massive amount of survalences, cameras, drones, etc.
Some might like it, and may be it might be safer. I personally think there will be no privacy with this route.
I pick physical police over massive amount of camera and drones.
Generally speaking, police officers don't prevent crime. They respond to crimes after the fact and they investigate and solve crimes. At least with all of the cameras it will make solving crime easier. Plus, there are already a ton of cameras everywhere these days anyways. With the exception of remote, rural areas I can't think of anywhere you could get away with something and not be caught on some sort of camera.
Generally speaking, police officers don't prevent crime. They respond to crimes after the fact and they investigate and solve crimes. At least with all of the cameras it will make solving crime easier. Plus, there are already a ton of cameras everywhere these days anyways. With the exception of remote, rural areas I can't think of anywhere you could get away with something and not be caught on some sort of camera.
I think it's that proliferation of cameras/surveillance which in part are increasingly linked to large-scale processing (e.g. ring, or US Gov't systems) that more than any modern development, would have been the most abhorrent to the people who institutionalized our government. Now note, I don't hold the founders on a pedestal - many mistakes were made (as would have been in any circumstance, they can't predict the future). Thing is, a surveillance state is the antithesis to a true republic; the country was created in law breaking, and they anticipated a necessity for it.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 18:32
Generally speaking, police officers don't prevent crime.
In a really broad sense you might be correct but at least one scientific study says more cops = less crime. At least in some categories:
https://www.nraila.org/articles/20190405/new-study-cops-prevent-crime
The key finding is that “Among violent crimes, the results are negative and statistically significant for murder, rape, and robbery, while the estimate is not significant for assault.” Mello’s findings for murder are limited by the variability in the murder rate, his findings imply that “one life can be saved by hiring about 9.5 new police officers.” Mello goes on to discuss his findings in terms of cost-benefit, finding that each officer contributes $352,000 in social benefit (based on crime reduction) – well above the point at which the additional officer would be considered cost-effective.
Of course, it's impossible to determine or measure how many crimes are stopped just by the presence of a police officer. The thing that I found most surprising was the $350k in social benefits each officer creates. That's a pretty amazing number.
Great-Kazoo
06-05-2020, 18:38
Minneapolis is talking about completely "dismantling" their PD.
Crazy times we're in.
you should look at the makeup of that cities government as well as the AG of Mn..... Keith Ellison
While i agree there are bad cops, as well as abusive ones. I'd like to see the after effect of a P.D being "dismantled" in a large urban area.
OR like britian. cops are unarmed and they have a rapid style response team, that is qualified / authorized to be armed.
You think there's a somewhat slow response time to stop a school shooting now? Just wait. Of course for that to happen i'd expect draconian gun laws , punishment for possession of a gun and mandatory relinquishing of ones guns.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 18:43
you should look at the makeup of that cities government as well as the AG of Mn..... Keith Ellison
His son is a Minneapolis city councilman. Go figure.
Bailey Guns
06-05-2020, 19:44
Kid that lives behind me, 21 YOA, just got hired and started training with Altus PD. Baptism by fire. He'll likely age 10 years in his first year.
That's fair, but I've got no desire to limit it to Kazoo as he's not the only one who said it/agreed to it, nor the only one doing drive bys with easily replied to statements asking why doesn't BLM care about black on black violence, then ignoring the reply and going on to whatever else.
Looks like you directed that to me, or at least got some on me with that broad brush you're painting folks with. I wasn't passing by your comment, as I had other shhhtuff to do today and am just now trying to get caught up. This thread went nuts today (yes, I am master of the obvious).
The lip service you linked was totally disingenuous coming from BLM. Much of the black-on-black murder goes unsolved as a significant portion of it is gang/drug related. They don't report who killed who. They seek retaliation outside the legal system.
This is why you end up with statistics like this:
81808
You can try and claim the 'moral high ground', but don't preach to me about how I'm wrong based on a worthless link which is the equivalent of a press release from BLM.
Statista.com shows 88 blacks shot to death by law enforcement so far this year in the country. Compare this to 179 shot to death in Chicago alone. You tell me. If you're being intellectually honest and there's an effort to prevent black homocide, where is the biggest opportunity to make the biggest difference?
BLM are specifically targeting law enforcement (which they admit) because they're an easy target. This also doesn't put any pressure on them to carry their own water in pursuing "justice". MSM and leftists are eager to push the measure. BLM also has a history of violence since the foundation of the organization.
Oh, and is it a coincidence that city government/police departments also have deeper pockets than some random gang banger?
Asking for a friend.
(All of my statements above in no way excuses police brutality no matter the race of the officer or citizen.)
DavieD55
06-05-2020, 22:32
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMLWXsV0E-M
I'm thinking that's his motorcycle helmet.
Found a good still photo. Yes, it was a motorcycle helmet:
https://i.imgur.com/f4OtUpb.jpg
A federal judge just ordered that Denver PD cannot use chemical or less than lethal weapons against peaceful protests.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/06/05/federal-judge-orders-denver-police-stop-projectiles-protesters/amp/
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 09:19
Wow... There are some pretty specific rulings in that. It's almost like the judge wants to rewrite the DPD policy manual.
buffalobo
06-06-2020, 09:21
Restraining order against DPD was in force last night.
BPTactical
06-06-2020, 09:26
Clown world
And the clowns are in charge
Wow... There are some pretty specific rulings in that. It's almost like the judge wants to rewrite the DPD policy manual.
Well, when DPD was filmed pepper balling passing cars for fun, it's not a good look.
2 Buffalo officers arrested and charged with 2nd degree assault for pushing man
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/buffalo-police-officers-arrested-shoving-75-old-protester-140400217--abc-news-topstories.html
TEAMRICO
06-06-2020, 10:46
A federal judge just ordered that Denver PD cannot use chemical or less than lethal weapons against peaceful protests.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/06/05/federal-judge-orders-denver-police-stop-projectiles-protesters/amp/
Sooooooo LETHAL is still on the table? How about night sticks?
henpecked
06-06-2020, 12:18
James Woods
@RealJamesWoods
?
1h
This sad fact is that the attention given to the issue of inequality will disappear like dust in the wind on November 4. Democrats have been stirring the pot every four years since I can remember, but doing absolutely nothing between election cycles except lining their pockets.
From the Denver Post:
A federal judge in Denver issued an order late Friday night that limits the Denver Police Department's use of chemical weapons and non-lethal projectiles on protesters, saying that protecting First Amendment rights were more important than protecting buildings
Does this translate to "Let it burn?"
O2
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 12:53
Well, when DPD was filmed pepper balling passing cars for fun, it's not a good look.
I understand that and I agree. Do you not see a problem with a judge rewriting a department policy manual from the bench? That is not a judge's job. That's part of the reason we're having some of the problems we're having today...judges legislating from the bench. That's basically what this judge is doing only in terms of police department policy instead of a law.
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 12:55
From the Denver Post:
A federal judge in Denver issued an order late Friday night that limits the Denver Police Department's use of chemical weapons and non-lethal projectiles on protesters, saying that protecting First Amendment rights were more important than protecting buildings
Does this translate to "Let it burn?"
O2
I seriously doubt he'd say that if "protesters" were standing outside his house with bricks and Molotov cocktails.
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 13:03
There is such a thing as taking something too far. Whether it's unreasonable force by police or burning and looting buildings in protest.
Frankly, I'd like to see police officers in Denver and other liberal shitholes come down with a serious case of blue flu. Bout a week off should cure a lot of this shit going around. Let the patients run the asylum for a while and see how that works out for those of you who think the police are out of control.
And for those of you who'll feel the need to say I'm just pro police, you're wrong. I'm pro good police...which is about 99.9% of them. I'm anti-bad cop. But I'm objective enough to realize there's a difference. And I'm not in favor of punishing the good cops for what a small minority of bad cops have done.
I'm also pro good protester. I'm anti-bad protester...aka looters and rioters.
Just like the protesters don't want to be lumped together with the looters and rioters, good cops don't want to be lumped together with the bad. Just like law-abiding gun owners don't want to be lumped together with the psychos who use guns to commit crimes. If you can't differentiate, you're part of the problem.
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 13:04
2 Buffalo officers arrested and charged with 2nd degree assault for pushing man
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/buffalo-police-officers-arrested-shoving-75-old-protester-140400217--abc-news-topstories.html
My .02 cents. I'm gonna go on record saying the DA is gonna have a hard time proving this.
BPTactical
06-06-2020, 13:38
My .02 cents. I'm gonna go on record saying the DA is gonna have a hard time proving this.
In a normal world I would agree.
However we are not in a normal world.
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 14:21
^^ You could be right about that.
In a normal world I would agree.
However we are not in a normal world.
We're a long freaking way from "normal".
Mayor of Seattle took similar measures disallowing the use of tear gas at all.
Prolly 'cuz the 'Rona.
We're a long freaking way from "normal".
Mayor of Seattle took similar measures disallowing the use of tear gas at all.
Prolly 'cuz the 'Rona.
It's the "new" normal we've been hearing about for some time.
My .02 cents. I'm gonna go on record saying the DA is gonna have a hard time proving this.
I've read that the guy is a known "activist" and was filmed earlier in the day with a motorcycle helmet. And that he was chatting up the person who caught it on camera. No idea if accurate.
BlasterBob
06-06-2020, 18:11
Well, I am exactly ten years OLDER that the old fart, who may possibly have tripped over his own feet after that push/shove, but if I saw a squad of cops heading towards me to clear the area, I still have enough common sense remaining, to make a quick 180 degree (U-Turn) and get out the hell out of their way. You poke the bear and he may just make you wish you hadn’t messed with him........ [blaster]
I understand some 75+ can throw 85mph fastball, and hit 90mph change up. I am sure pete rose can at age 79.
Whereas some of 75 takes 3 seconds after green light to roll forward at 15mph slower than a speed limit.
Perhaps that guy who got shoved needed about 3+ seconds what the hell is happening and act on it.
:)
Queens guard version
https://youtu.be/EZn_9CmzST4
GilpinGuy
06-06-2020, 21:15
Snip
And for those of you who'll feel the need to say I'm just pro police, you're wrong. I'm pro good police...which is about 99.9% of them. I'm anti-bad cop. But I'm objective enough to realize there's a difference. And I'm not in favor of punishing the good cops for what a small minority of bad cops have done.
I'm not calling you out or anything here, but in your years of LEO service, have you ever seen an officer do something untoward to the point that it would warrant it being reported to a supervisor or whatever? If so, did you do it?
I think "part" of the problem is police not policing themselves and calling out the bullshit excuse of "bad apples". Yes, assholes exist. Call them out and get them out of policing.
Great-Kazoo
06-06-2020, 21:19
I seriously doubt he'd say that if "protesters" were standing outside his house with bricks and Molotov cocktails.
Guv Cuomo issued a stand down order State wide in NY to all LE depts on (iirc) thursday. I agree lets get a protest going in front of their homes and see the results.
Bailey Guns
06-06-2020, 21:39
I'm not calling you out or anything here, but in your years of LEO service, have you ever seen an officer do something untoward to the point that it would warrant it being reported to a supervisor or whatever? If so, did you do it?
I think "part" of the problem is police not policing themselves and calling out the bullshit excuse of "bad apples". Yes, assholes exist. Call them out and get them out of policing.
Never. Worst thing I can recall is an officer on my team (I was the supervisor) lied to me about backing into a light pole and causing minor damage to a car. I had an occasion or two where a fellow officer pulled some bonehead stuff that put me in danger when dealing with people...but that was always handled between the two of us.
There were the lazy types that always had an excuse for not handling calls or finding excuses to divert from certain calls forcing someone to handle stuff in their district. Everyone knew who those guys were and usually avoided helping them. If a fellow officer was down 4 or 5 reports and got dispatched to another call, someone would always offer to take the call for them. The lazy guys would never get that type of consideration.
But nothing like unnecessary use of force.
I was sued by a kid for $17M. He fabricated a story about how I hit him in the head with my hand/flashlight/nightstick/gun (it was always a different item when it was shown his story didn't make sense). The family notified the FBI and they cleared me. Then it went to trial in federal district court and after a week long trial the jury found in my favor in a matter of minutes. It was obvious he was lying. Mom and dad were convicted felons and looking for money. Their attorney knew I didn't do it but he was getting paid so he didn't care.
GilpinGuy
06-06-2020, 22:21
BG, did you feel that there was a culture of "don't tell on one of your own"? I don't know, but he asshat that killed Floyd had something like 17 complaints filed against him in 20 years. You had 1, it sounds like. But no other officer noticed anything wrong with this guy?
Like I wrote, it just "seems" like cops aught to protect themselves by calling out the shitheads and getting them out.
I'm sure it's worse in serioisly urban areas like Chicago or NYC, so maybe you haven't experienced it as much. But the perception of cops covering for each other when bad shit happens is no bueno.
BG, did you feel that there was a culture of "don't tell on one of your own"? I don't know, but he asshat that killed Floyd had something like 17 complaints filed against him in 20 years. You had 1, it sounds like. But no other officer noticed anything wrong with this guy?
Like I wrote, it just "seems" like cops aught to protect themselves by calling out the shitheads and getting them out.
I'm sure it's worse in serioisly urban areas like Chicago or NYC, so maybe you haven't experienced it as much. But the perception of cops covering for each other when bad shit happens is no bueno.
I seem to recall bad cops in MN had the attention of the prosecutor, Presidential candidate Amy Klobuchar, and she didn't do anything about it. She deferred to grand juries. Then you have police unions protecting bad officers. So, maybe it's not just the officers protecting themselves?
I know some cops and the stories they tell, and defend, of "just doing their job!", wouldn't fly here at all.
Having a complaint made against an officer is not what I would use to decide whether an officer is bad. After all, not many people are happy when you arrest them and it isn't totally unheard of for people to deflect by making counter-accusations. No one knows bad officers like the decent officers working alongside them. In some agencies/departments it is possible for officers to bring misconduct to the attention of management. In some agencies/departments, it would be pointless because management is just as bad as the worst officers. And in too many agencies/departments, management is bound by ridiculous public sector union protections that force them to reemploy some total shit bags.
The percentage of bad officers to adequate officers or even good officers is not high (except in some notorious police departments; New Orleans and Miami-Dade come to mind). The problem IMO that eats at most personnel is apathy. At some point regardless of how enthusiastic and well motivated someone is to help people, everyone eventually begins to hate certain aspects of their job. They become disillusioned, feel like what they are doing is not appreciated or recognized and in many cases resented by supervisors and the community. It can be a little deflating to see the same people on the street, doing the same things that you just arrested them for a couple nights before. Sometimes you even wonder why should you bother since no one else gives a shit. If left unchecked, this can lead to the "just don't give a shit" syndrome. When I was watching that former officer that killed George Floyd, all I saw was an officer who didn't care. He didn't care about the person he had in his custody. He didn't care about the new officers he was supposed to be training. He dug his heels in and cared even less as people on the sidewalk called him names and tried to get him to care about Mr. Floyd. Does racism exist? Sure it does. Is it the problem that it was forty or fifty years ago? Not in my experience it isn't. IMO, Mr. Floyd didn't die because of racism. He died because the officers who were responsible for him when they took him into their custody just didn't give a shit.
Just a thought, when you don't care about your job, the people you work with, and the people you are charged with serving, find another profession. Because if you don't, some day your bad attitude just may come up and punch you right in the balls and put an orange jump suit on you. You just may find yourself ground up in the same judicial system that you have been feeding people to for the past decade.
It's a cliche, but no one hates bad cops more than good cops. If you can't turn bad cops in, then you need to get away from them as fast as possible. Just kneeling next to a bad cop might cost you your job and get you put in jail.
I still can't believe I made it to a full pension. God must love me...or maybe he thinks my wife deserves to be taken care of in my old age.[Flower]
Be safe.
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