SENATE'S GUN CONTROL READING * LIVE

[muddywings]

@#$%^&*()

[lowbeyond]

vote on 1229 was 19-16

[losttrail]

Well, we know who the Marxists are now.

[Rooskibar03]

Fuck this shit

[lowbeyond]

recess til 1:30

[clublights]

So .. does 1229 kill the trading post here ? opinions ?

[blacklabel]

Fuck me.

[lowbeyond]

So .. does 1229 kill the trading post here ? opinions ?

no. but technically if you transfer a gun you have to get a bcg.

up to you if you want to comply - or not.

[Sharpienads]

So .. does 1229 kill the trading post here ? opinions ?

Well it still isn't law yet, and I don't think it would end the TP. We'll just have to by law law have the firearms transferred through an FFL.

[brobar]

So .. does 1229 kill the trading post here ? opinions ?

It more than likely will for many firearms. It won't kill it for firearms related accessories and other things that don't require an FFL.

[Rooskibar03]

Now can we sent nasty emails to those who we were told were "on the fence" and could possibly be swayed with logic?

[sniper7]

Were there any amendments that have to go back to the house? Or was that it

[buckshotbarlow]

can someone put a list of the 'eye' votes?>

[th3w01f]

Fuck..... a bill that actually did what they originally said they wanted "a background check for all sales" would have been a blessing over this crap that just passed.

[wctriumph]

Every swing vote that we approached voted Aye. Keflas will beout come election time, I will actively work for the opposition of any state assembly member that voted for these laws.

[Justin]

Which of the fence sitters sold us out?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.

[Sharpienads]

no. but technically if you transfer a gun you have to get a bcg.

up to you if you want to comply - or not.

Just like any law.

[XC700116]

So .. does 1229 kill the trading post here ? opinions ?

New Verbage, I'd like to give somone my firearm, please contact for information.........

[Sharpienads]

Every swing vote that we approached voted Aye. Keflas will beout come election time, I will actively work for the opposition of any state assembly member that voted for these laws.

Tochtrop voted no

[merl]

I never really heard of swing votes on 1229. the universal BGC bill was always going to pass. The only ones in the air are mag limits and CC limits.

[Justin]

No before they haven't voted on the other bills. Rather than slinging nasty hands we need to figure out what or next advocacy steps are.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk. Hence all the misspellings and goofy word choices.

[The Rat]

Now can we sent nasty emails to those who we were told were "on the fence" and could possibly be swayed with logic?

I'd wait on that till the whole day's voting is done. Don't want to prematurely do anything.

[BPTactical]

Time to lean on Hick.



Hard




Very fucking hard


As far as the TP going away, I don't see why it should. It would fall on the seller/purchasers to comply with the law, not the boards.

[UnoTaco]

So, since there isn't a registration database, all private transfers could have been done prior to law enactment..... Just like all mags could have been purchased or transferred prior to July 1, 2013 if that one goes through (hopefully not). Sounds like sound logic on their side!

[merl]

So, since there isn't a registration database, all private transfers could have been done prior to law enactment..... Just like all mags could have been purchased or transferred prior to July 1, 2013 if that one goes through (hopefully not). Sounds like sound logic on their side!

because they knew a database would not pass. thats the only reason it never saw the light of day this session.

[BPTactical]

New Verbage, I'd like to give somone my firearm, please contact for information.........

"Gift" and "Donation"?????

[clublights]

Now can we sent nasty emails to those who we were told were "on the fence" and could possibly be swayed with logic?


Not yet we still have 2 bills in the wind!!!!!!!!

[Rucker61]

Every swing vote that we approached voted Aye. Keflas will beout come election time, I will actively work for the opposition of any state assembly member that voted for these laws.

Just sent this to John:

Very very disappointed in your Aye vote for HB 13-1229. Either through intellectual dishonesty or deliberate ignorance you've shown that you're not capable of rational thought regarding this legislation. If you still felt this that HB 13-1229 is not fatally flawed, or you think the law abiding citizens of this state deserve this law, which doesn't prevent a criminal from purchasing a firearm in the same way that they commit other crimes, outside the law, then I have to consider you as someone who puts politics over the rights of citizens. Either that, and it pains me to say this to someone who comes across as a caring individual, you're just not intelligent to discern the flaws inherent in this legislation.

32 years of voting for Democrats ends today, Senator. I have to withdraw my offer of range instruction, because frankly your position on these bills shows me that you know so little about firearms, and are incapable of learning enough about firearms, to be safe for yourself and anyone on the range.

[lowbeyond]

Just like any law.

yep. quite frankly there are so many laws and regulations out there, i bet 100% of us are in violation of a bunch just by living their daily life. whats another one *shrug*

[brobar]

There is still time to contact your Senators (they check their email throughout the proceedings... I've had detailed responses during the debates) before the other bills come up.

That being said... you might want to start including Hick in those emails because there will obviously be at least a few (if not all) of these bills making their way to his desk!

[sellersm]

because they knew a database would not pass. thats the only reason it never saw the light of day this session.

^This! All this current legislation just sets the stage for 'needing' the registration. That will be forthcoming, probably after some crises...

[neversummer900]

Transfer, gift, lend alll these were put in so as to make sure that 100% defacto registration will be achieved soon.
New Verbage, I'd like to give somone my firearm, please contact for information.........

[clublights]

I didn't mean the forum operators killing the TP .. more just will this kill the tp because folks just won't use it ...

[buckshotbarlow]

Damn ducks, running around underneath my feet...2web feet good, all liberal senators good...everybody else bad

[muddywings]

So, since there isn't a registration database, all private transfers could have been done prior to law enactment..... Just like all mags could have been purchased or transferred prior to July 1, 2013 if that one goes through (hopefully not). Sounds like sound logic on their side!

w/o a registration database, nobody will know if you sell a gun to your buddy, brother-in-law, father, hunting buddy....whoever. It's completely unenforceable.
now on the other hand, a disgruntled neighbor could say he saw you buy a gun in your driveway from somebody and you would have to prove it otherwise. (I have to go dig around and look for some receipts)

[blacklabel]

Are they in recess?

[Sharpienads]

I didn't mean the forum operators killing the TP .. more just will this kill the tp because folks just won't use it ...

I'll still use it. I have a feeling newbies are going to have a hard time selling guns if this fully passes though.

[clublights]

Are they in recess?

yes and their playground is your rights!

[Sharpienads]

Are they in recess?

Yes until 1:30

[sellersm]

yes and their playground is your rights!

Truth!

[brobar]

You'll still be able to buy and sell firearms in the TP. You have a few options... make sure you utilize an FFL during the process... or take the chance of doing it under the table. As mentioned earlier... n00bs (such as myself) will probably be left out in the cold. I would suggest not doing anything under the table unless you know the other person, and know them well enough to trust them. There will undoubtedly be "plants" who will try and catch you skirting the law... so you don't need me to tell you to do so at your own risk!

[dwalker460]

Gentlemen, I just became a criminal. I refuse to perform, or force anyone else to perform, a BGC on any firearms transaction I am a part of. Additionally, I will no longer purchase any firearms with any FFL. I am only one person, but I spend a fair amount on firearms and firearm related activities. I will no longer support this state in any manner related to firearms. This includes any and all fees due them for permits, BGCs, etc. Sure, its only $10 bucks or so here and there, but I will be damned if they get a thin red cent. I am only one person, and likely to have any effect on the state government, but those fat cows leading the sheeple of this state have crossed a line. Any attempt to enforce this UN Constitutional law upon me will be met with an appropriate response.

Now, where was that Florida realtors number? Will need a summer home after I move back to TN...

[aryntha]

In a way - this will never be a problem between friends - oh, unless the gun was made after the ban. "Welp."

[two shoes]

Just sent this to John:

Very very disappointed in your Aye vote for HB 13-1229. Either through intellectual dishonesty or deliberate ignorance you've shown that you're not capable of rational thought regarding this legislation. If you still felt this that HB 13-1229 is not fatally flawed, or you think the law abiding citizens of this state deserve this law, which doesn't prevent a criminal from purchasing a firearm in the same way that they commit other crimes, outside the law, then I have to consider you as someone who puts politics over the rights of citizens. Either that, and it pains me to say this to someone who comes across as a caring individual, you're just not intelligent to discern the flaws inherent in this legislation.

32 years of voting for Democrats ends today, Senator. I have to withdraw my offer of range instruction, because frankly your position on these bills shows me that you know so little about firearms, and are incapable of learning enough about firearms, to be safe for yourself and anyone on the range.
Fuck, Rucker, that is damn near poetry!

[asmo]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

Yet they disarm the people...

[SuperiorDG]

I wonder what Cabelas is thinking about this? Too late to pull out I guess.

[DHCO]

CCW permit holders should be exempt from all background checks. Easily verifiable card that I am not a prohibited person and have been subjected to a background check, fingerprinted and came up clean. If I want to sell a gun to another person in a FTF transfer, a CCW permit should exempt me from needing to use an FFL.
Fuck this state for passing more useless laws that overwhelming evidence says will not work.

[UnoTaco]

If they truley try and disarm the people and deploy troops on the street. How many soldiers will hold true to the oath they took? I also see many more Oath Keepers as well. Let's hope those that are supposed to protect us truley do so.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2013/03/11/1-6-billion-rounds-of-ammo-for-homeland-security-its-time-for-a-national-conversation/

Yet they disarm the people...

[merl]

I wonder what Cabelas is thinking about this? Too late to pull out I guess.

why would they care? they already had to do BGC on everything.

[lowbeyond]

Gentlemen, I just became a criminal. I refuse to perform, or force anyone else to perform, a BGC on any firearms transaction I am a part of. Additionally, I will no longer purchase any firearms with any FFL. I am only one person, but I spend a fair amount on firearms and firearm related activities. I will no longer support this state in any manner related to firearms. This includes any and all fees due them for permits, BGCs, etc. Sure, its only $10 bucks or so here and there, but I will be damned if they get a thin red cent. I am only one person, and likely to have any effect on the state government, but those fat cows leading the sheeple of this state have crossed a line. Any attempt to enforce this UN Constitutional law upon me will be met with an appropriate response.

Now, where was that Florida realtors number? Will need a summer home after I move back to TN...

If you get busted and post it here, some here will cheer as you broke the law and are a criminal.

[Rabid]

I wonder what Cabelas is thinking about this? Too late to pull out I guess.
I emailed them a few times concerning these bills but never got a response.

[losttrail]

At least I have Sheriff Terry Maketa on my side.

[sellersm]

And we have the guy behind this brilliant law, to thank for all this mess here: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-sugar-police-will-have-17-oz-cups-2013-3


NYC Will Have 'Sugar Police' Armed With 17-Ounce Cups To Enforce Bloomberg's Sugar Ban

[Sharpienads]

Fuck this state for passing more useless laws that overwhelming evidence says will not work.

Actually, the evidence shows that these laws do work. Your "problem" for lack of a better word, is that you still believe they are being honest about their intentions to keep people safe. Their true intentions are to disarm the public, plain and simple. And to do that, the evidence shows that laws like this, followed by registration to make them enforceable, are very effective.

[sellersm]

Actually, the evidence shows that these laws do work. Your "problem" for lack of a better word, is that you still believe they are being honest about their intentions to keep people safe. Their true intentions are to disarm the public, plain and simple. And to do that, the evidence shows that laws like this, followed by registration to make them enforceable, are very effective.

^This. Agendas and playbooks. All according to plan...

[clublights]

And we have the guy behind this brilliant law, to thank for all this mess here: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-sugar-police-will-have-17-oz-cups-2013-3

wouldn't ice in the cup displace the soda? therefore you are not breaking the law just because the empty cup holds more then 16 oz's ...

[Gman]

The video feed I was watching seemed to be way behind real time.

...but I don't think I'll be watching or listening this afternoon. I have to be nice to people.

...all while the government enslaves me.

[bigshane]

wouldn't ice in the cup displace the soda? therefore you are not breaking the law just because the empty cup holds more then 16 oz's ...
You're missing the point though; In much the same way that a 30 round magazine can be loaded with 15 rounds it's not your intent that matters, it's the perception of the possibility of your inanimate object to potentially cause harm that must be stamped out. For the children!

[XC700116]

"Gift" and "Donation"?????

Just trying to think outside the box the idiots don't understand they've created. [Beer]

[The Rat]

Guys, wait until today's voting is all complete before sending off tirades to the dems who voted aye on this. We don't want to potentially shoot ourselves in the foot and alienate them before the other bills, notably 1224, are already voted on.

[Rucker61]

You're missing the point though; In much the same way that a 30 round magazine can be loaded with 15 rounds it's not your intent that matters, it's the perception of the possibility of your inanimate object to potentially cause harm that must be stamped out. For the children!

And if the cup can be modified to hold more than 16 ounces, then it's illegal, too. GO TO JAIL!

[Rucker61]

Guys, wait until today's voting is all complete before sending off tirades to the dems who voted aye on this. We don't want to potentially shoot ourselves in the foot and alienate them before the other bills, notably 1224, are already voted on.

If they can't the see flaws in 1229, then there's not chance of not passing 1224. And they need the revenue stream from 1228, as they've already given the money away.

[losttrail]

Need to ban high capacity lunch boxes. We do not want to have kids nibbling Pop Tarts into the shape of handguns.

[The Rat]

If they can't the see flaws in 1229, then there's not chance of not passing 1224. And they need the revenue stream from 1228, as they've already given the money away.

Not exactly. Jahn already declared she'd be a no vote on 1224, but a yes vote on 1229/1228. Others might follow suit if we're lucky.

[Katastrophic]

Just trying to think outside the box the idiots don't understand they've created. [Beer]


With that spirit in mind, what would it change if citizens got an FFL license for themselves? I mean do dealers need to run a background check every time they receive a gun into their store? What about their employees since they probably aren't licensed. Just thinking out loud....

[blacklabel]

Subjecting yourself to the scrutiny and difficulty to receive the proper license wouldn't make it worth it.

[Katastrophic]

I suppose that's probably right.

[dwalker460]

With that spirit in mind, what would it change if citizens got an FFL license for themselves? I mean do dealers need to run a background check every time they receive a gun into their store? What about their employees since they probably aren't licensed. Just thinking out loud....


Your overthinking it. Better to just resist and challenge the violation of our 4th Amendment rights as well as the 2A rights violation. You cant criminally prosecute those nutjobs who voted for this, but you can lay all the resulting mayhem at thier door and politically irradiatte them.

[SuperiorDG]

With that spirit in mind, what would it change if citizens got an FFL license for themselves? I mean do dealers need to run a background check every time they receive a gun into their store? What about their employees since they probably aren't licensed. Just thinking out loud....

FFL is a pain in the ass to keep up with. Don't think it would be worth it.

[XC700116]

With that spirit in mind, what would it change if citizens got an FFL license for themselves? I mean do dealers need to run a background check every time they receive a gun into their store? What about their employees since they probably aren't licensed. Just thinking out loud....


No dealers do not need BGC to recieve, they just have to put it on the books and do a BGC every time one leaves the store to a non FFL. FFL's are pretty expensive to maintain, but at this point and with the killing of doing it in a trust (NFA too I'm assuming) I'm inclined considder to get one.

[TFOGGER]

With that spirit in mind, what would it change if citizens got an FFL license for themselves? I mean do dealers need to run a background check every time they receive a gun into their store? What about their employees since they probably aren't licensed. Just thinking out loud....

Kitchen table FFLs used to be quite common, until the license fee increased exponentially in the early 1990s. Most people that only transferred a few firearms a year found the fees and other requirements to be so burdensome that they relinquished their licenses.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Monday, and I need a liquid lunch already.

[XC700116]

It really depends on the class of FFL and what you intend to do with it, but yeah, not cheap, or easy. I'm affraid there's not much of a LEGAL Easy button for this.

[sellersm]

This whole thing is just so stupid! The flawed argument of "look how easy it is to get <xyz>!" is just stupid. How easy is it to get drugs? How about hammers? Or knives? Or a crowbar? Or a softball bat? Or what about a car? Or pools (they kill more children)? Let's have BGCs for purchasers of pens and pencils!

I say we turn it around and say "look how easy it is for controlled morons to get into our Capitol!" We need to do something about THAT ISSUE!

[neversummer900]

In light of the goings on at the statehouse today just remember there is always a way to remedy the situation. I have 2 quotes I would like to submit from 2 very different sources that have the same thoughts and intention.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln -Monday, March 4, 1861
His Inaugural Address

"All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path. From bondage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Molly Johnson - From the movie swing vote

[TFOGGER]

Monday, and I need a liquid lunch already.

+1 brother... I'm still holding out hope on 1224, but after that I'm gonna unload on the Dems. Nothing abusive or threatening, but the fucking elitist traitors are going to get a piece of my mind. And their opposition will get a huge chunk of my time and money.

[Dave_L]

So I've been trying to shuffle through all this. Where is the exact wording for this final bill? I was told by a friend that if I leave the house for 72+ hours, I have to transfer the guns (assuming I had any) to my wife? Or anyone else that would remain in custody of the house which holds any potential firearms?

[merl]

+1 brother... I'm still holding out hope on 1224, but after that I'm gonna unload on the Dems. Nothing abusive or threatening, but the fucking elitist traitors are going to get a piece of my mind. And their opposition will get a huge chunk of my time and money.

it does still have to go back to the house. dont burn bridges just yet.

[Katastrophic]

Thanks for not taking me too seriously, I'm mostly thinking hypothetically. This one just gets to me since my husband travels for longer than 72 hours at a time and I would hate to become a criminal without meaning to. It's for the children, after all!

[mrghost]

Monday, and I need a liquid lunch already.

Indeed. I'll buy.

[ChrisC]

If you are an FFL as a sole proprietor then you do not have to do a background check to transfer a gun to yourself. If the FFL is an LLC, Corp, etc.. then you have to do a background check to transfer a firearm from your inventory to your personal collection. I just recently had this discussion with the BATFE when having my FFL interview with the IOI.

[MAP]

Thanks for not taking me too seriously, I'm mostly thinking hypothetically. This one just gets to me since my husband travels for longer than 72 hours at a time and I would hate to become a criminal without meaning to. It's for the children, after all!

A solution may be to put all of your firearms in a Trust so that you and your husband have equal access.

Mike

[jslo]

So I've been trying to shuffle through all this. Where is the exact wording for this final bill? I was told by a friend that if I leave the house for 72+ hours, I have to transfer the guns (assuming I had any) to my wife? Or anyone else that would remain in custody of the house which holds any potential firearms?

Have not seen the text for myself but someone here on the floor said something to the effect it would not have to be transferred if it did not leave the home.

[XC700116]

In light of the goings on at the statehouse today just remember there is always a way to remedy the situation. I have 2 quotes I would like to submit from 2 very different sources that have the same thoughts and intention.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing Government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it."
-Abraham Lincoln -Monday, March 4, 1861
His Inaugural Address

"All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path. From bondage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Molly Johnson - From the movie swing vote


I always laugh when I hear people quote Lincoln saying such things, I mean really, he's the one who was the sole biggest contributor to starting the civil war and it had NOTHING to do with Liberty, it had everything to do with stopping secession. The whole "free the slaves" bit was secondary and after the fact. He went to war with his own people to crush liberty.

[lowbeyond]

nope

(b) AS USED IN THIS SECTION, UNLESS THE CONTEXT REQUIRES
17 OTHERWISE, "TRANSFEREE" MEANS A PERSON WHO DESIRES TO RECEIVE OR
18 ACQUIRE A FIREARM FROM A TRANSFEROR. IF A TRANSFEREE IS NOT A
19 NATURAL PERSON BUT A CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, OR
20 LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST, THE REQUIREMENT DESCRIBED IN
21 THIS SUBSECTION (1) SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.

[XC700116]

A solution may be to put all of your firearms in a Trust so that you and your husband have equal access.

Mike

It needs to be done before it goes into effect, because the trust transfer is killed in an amendment to the bill.

[Rucker61]

Have not seen the text for myself but someone here on the floor said something to the effect it would not have to be transferred if it did not leave the home.

Democrat or Republican? I haven't seen any indication that the Democrats understand any of the bill.

[neversummer900]

Agreed he did more to undermine the power of the constitution as the supreme law of the land. But his words are true The United States belongs to the people not the government. That was where I see the light in his statement.
I always laugh when I hear people quote Lincoln saying such things, I mean really, he's the one who was the sole biggest contributor to starting the civil war and it had NOTHING to do with Liberty, it had everything to do with stopping secession. The whole "free the slaves" bit was secondary and after the fact. He went to war with his own people to crush liberty.

[XC700116]

nope

(b) AS USED IN THIS SECTION, UNLESS THE CONTEXT REQUIRES
17 OTHERWISE, "TRANSFEREE" MEANS A PERSON WHO DESIRES TO RECEIVE OR
18 ACQUIRE A FIREARM FROM A TRANSFEROR. IF A TRANSFEREE IS NOT A
19 NATURAL PERSON BUT A CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, OR
20 LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST, THE REQUIREMENT DESCRIBED IN
21 THIS SUBSECTION (1) SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.

Reading the text of that, I would say that anything the trust holds before the law goes into effect is grandfathered. IE GET IT DONE NOW!!

I would also venture to guess that as long as the item/firearms stays in the trust, an added trustee would not have to have BGC's for each and every item. Because they are added to the trust, not an item added to the trust.

[67rschev]

+1 brother... I'm still holding out hope on 1224, but after that I'm gonna unload on the Dems. Nothing abusive or threatening, but the fucking elitist traitors are going to get a piece of my mind. And their opposition will get a huge chunk of my time and money.


And a big plus 1 .

I have never been this upset about the state of our State . Never been all that active besides getting out to vote and an occasional yard tard . This next go around , big time AND money from this freedom loving family

[Shootersfab]

Been listening all morning......about ready to puke listening to these D bags talk.

Dont know how the afternoon is going to go....

I have a feeling i may need to run up the street [Beer]

[XC700116]

Agreed he did more to undermine the power of the constitution as the supreme law of the land. But his words are true The United States belongs to the people not the government. That was where I see the light in his statement.

Agreed, but realisticly, I equate it to Obummer saying the same thing as to the weight of credibility. IE, none with me. It's just one of my stings is all. [Beer]

[lowbeyond]

Have not seen the text for myself but someone here on the floor said something to the effect it would not have to be transferred if it did not leave the home.

You cant go by what people say. It is meaningless. For example, some woman said that dont worry your friend can borrow and transport the gun to go hunting no worries. But the bill does not say that. it says

(e) A 1 TEMPORARY TRANSFER OF POSSESSION WITHOUT TRANSFER
2 OF OWNERSHIP OR A TITLE TO OWNERSHIP, WHICH TRANSFER TAKES PLACE:
3 (I) AT A SHOOTING RANGE LOCATED IN OR ON PREMISES OWNED OR
4 OCCUPIED BY A DULY INCORPORATED ORGANIZATION ORGANIZED FOR
5 CONSERVATION PURPOSES OR TO FOSTER PROFICIENCY IN FIREARMS;
6 (II) AT A TARGET FIREARM SHOOTING COMPETITION UNDER THE
7 AUSPICES OF, OR APPROVED BY, A STATE AGENCY OR A NONPROFIT
8 ORGANIZATION; OR
9 (III) WHILE HUNTING, FISHING, TARGET SHOOTING, OR TRAPPING

Under the language of the bill temporary possession is only lawful while your friend is engaged in the act of hunting.

They lie on the floor, either due to not understanding what is in the bill, or quite frankly, more likely due to - malice.

[jslo]

Democrat or Republican? I haven't seen any indication that the Democrats understand any of the bill.

Agreed. A Democrat made the statement and a Republican attempted to get clarification. Like most everything else in these bills, very little is clear.

[Katastrophic]

Reading the text of that, I would say that anything the trust holds before the law goes into effect is grandfathered. IE GET IT DONE NOW!!

I would also venture to guess that as long as the item/firearms stays in the trust, an added trustee would not have to have BGC's for each and every item. Because they are added to the trust, not an item added to the trust.

Yeah, we've been dealing with the trust thing for awhile now, it's been a learning experience. I also understand from that text, if we purchase any other firearms, we both need to go through/pay for background checks every time we transfer anything into the trust. Figuring the kids into this too will be interesting. This sucks.

[mdflem51]

Seems to me I25 truck stops in Cheyenne are gonna` get a whole lot busier. Nice going you idiot dems! I will not comply,furthermore, I`m confident 1229 will be found to be unconstitutuional.

[XC700116]

Yeah, we've been dealing with the trust thing for awhile now, it's been a learning experience. I also understand from that text, if we purchase any other firearms, we both need to go through/pay for background checks every time we transfer anything into the trust. Figuring the kids into this too will be interesting. This sucks.

That would be true, yes

[jslo]

You cant go by what people say. It is meaningless. For example, some woman said that dont worry your friend can borrow and transport the gun to go hunting no worries. But the bill does not say that. it says

(e) A 1 TEMPORARY TRANSFER OF POSSESSION WITHOUT TRANSFER
2 OF OWNERSHIP OR A TITLE TO OWNERSHIP, WHICH TRANSFER TAKES PLACE:
3 (I) AT A SHOOTING RANGE LOCATED IN OR ON PREMISES OWNED OR
4 OCCUPIED BY A DULY INCORPORATED ORGANIZATION ORGANIZED FOR
5 CONSERVATION PURPOSES OR TO FOSTER PROFICIENCY IN FIREARMS;
6 (II) AT A TARGET FIREARM SHOOTING COMPETITION UNDER THE
7 AUSPICES OF, OR APPROVED BY, A STATE AGENCY OR A NONPROFIT
8 ORGANIZATION; OR
9 (III) WHILE HUNTING, FISHING, TARGET SHOOTING, OR TRAPPING

Under the language of the bill temporary possession is only lawful while your friend is engaged in the act of hunting.

They lie on the floor, either due to not understanding what is in the bill, or quite frankly, more likely due to - malice.

I agree. Admitted I hadn't seen the text itself.

[th3w01f]

It needs to be done before it goes into effect, because the trust transfer is killed in an amendment to the bill.

This looks like the trust portion. Does this mean that my 6 and 9 year olds will have to do background check when transferring firearms into the trust since they're the beneficiaries?

(b) AS USED IN THIS SECTION, UNLESS THE CONTEXT REQUIRES
17 OTHERWISE, "TRANSFEREE" MEANS A PERSON WHO DESIRES TO RECEIVE OR
18 ACQUIRE A FIREARM FROM A TRANSFEROR. IF A TRANSFEREE IS NOT A
19 NATURAL PERSON BUT A CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, OR
20 LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST, THE REQUIREMENT DESCRIBED IN
21 THIS SUBSECTION (1) SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.

[lowbeyond]

Reading the text of that, I would say that anything the trust holds before the law goes into effect is grandfathered. IE GET IT DONE NOW!!

I would also venture to guess that as long as the item/firearms stays in the trust, an added trustee would not have to have BGC's for each and every item. Because they are added to the trust, not an item added to the trust.

Nope. There is no grandfathering language. What it says is that even though items are in a trust you still need a BCG to transfer them between members of the trust.

SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.

Now of course that is what the law says. It is up to you if you want to comply.

[ChrisC]

Yep and they would be considered prohibited persons and would not pass because they are under 18.

[MAP]

It needs to be done before it goes into effect, because the trust transfer is killed in an amendment to the bill.

True.

[XC700116]

This looks like the trust portion. Does this mean that my 6 and 9 year olds will have to do background check when transferring firearms into the trust since they're the beneficiaries?

(b) AS USED IN THIS SECTION, UNLESS THE CONTEXT REQUIRES
17 OTHERWISE, "TRANSFEREE" MEANS A PERSON WHO DESIRES TO RECEIVE OR
18 ACQUIRE A FIREARM FROM A TRANSFEROR. IF A TRANSFEREE IS NOT A
19 NATURAL PERSON BUT A CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, OR
20 LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST, THE REQUIREMENT DESCRIBED IN
21 THIS SUBSECTION (1) SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.


Most likely since they are not old enough to own firearms, you can't even buy them with the trust until they are old enough, because yes, the way the text of the bill is written, they'd need a BGC and Fed/CBI will deny them due to age.

[buckshotbarlow]

here we go...1228

[brutal]

A solution may be to put all of your firearms in a Trust so that you and your husband have equal access.

Mike


Have not seen the text for myself but someone here on the floor said something to the effect it would not have to be transferred if it did not leave the home.

I still don't understand how this affects us if I am out of town for a week or more. I thought they specifically excluded trust "transfers." Someone help me understand how if my wife is already a trustee she cannot possess the guns? How adding my best friend of 22 years to my trust temporarily is not allowed? How would this affect beneficiary receipt of the guns if both my wife and I die?

(FWIW, I was distracted while writing and missed the last 20 posts before posting)

[dwalker460]

not up on my screen, still says they are at lunch

[XC700116]

Nope. There is no grandfathering language. What it says is that even though items are in a trust you still need a BCG to transfer them between members of the trust.

SHALL BE INTERPRETED TO REQUIRE A BACKGROUND
22 CHECK OF EACH MEMBER, PARTNER, OFFICER, OR OTHER PERSON WHO
23 HOLDS A BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE CORPORATION, ASSOCIATION,
24 PARTNERSHIP, OR LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANY OR TRUST.

Now of course that is what the law says. It is up to you if you want to comply.


Put the lines 17-21 in front of that, it's on acquisition/transfer, not previously held. IE Trust/Trustees already own it, same as private party. For instance, you nor I have to go out and get BGC's for every gun we already own. So as long as it's already owned by the trust/trustees, it's not applicable. BUT every new addition is.

[th3w01f]

Most likely since they are not old enough to own firearms, you can't even buy them with the trust until they are old enough, because yes, the way the text of the bill is written, they'd need a BGC and Fed/CBI will deny them due to age.

OK, that really makes things a mess since I'm waiting on 2 NFA items that will not be here before 7/1.

[dwalker460]

link! I need a link!

[colo-pr]

well, they aprove the 1229 right?

[XC700116]

OK, that really makes things a mess since I'm waiting on 2 NFA items that will not be here before 7/1.

Honestly, I'd talk to a lawyer. Here's what I'm kinda thinking, either create a second trust for everything not NFA and move it there now with their names on it, and then use your current one for the new items and remove their names from it with say just your wifes on it (so she'll pass the BGC) and then when they are old enough add them as trustees. Granted if you both are killed in a plane crash the NFA stuff is lost, but it might be the best work around for now.

But here's the question and some here may be able to answer it, currently, do you have to do a CBI BGC/4473 on NFA items, once you're approved by ATF?

I haven't actually gone through the process yet as I was waiting for this shit to get sorted out before hand as I didn't want to get hung up in the middle of the process with a law change.

[brobar]

I'm still confused on a lot of the ins and outs of these bills. Can someone explain to me why one or many firearms that were purchased by me and/or my wife can't be considered OUR firearms? She and I can BOTH own a particular vehicle. Is the only reason we can't BOTH own a particular firearm simply the fact that we don't register/title firearms?

Not that I'm looking for titling or registration... just curious is all.

[th3w01f]

Honestly, I'd talk to a lawyer. Here's what I'm kinda thinking, either create a second trust for everything not NFA and move it there now with their names on it, and then use your current one for the new items and remove their names from it with say just your wifes on it (so she'll pass the BGC) and then when they are old enough add them as trustees. Granted if you both are killed in a plane crash the NFA stuff is lost, but it might be the best work around for now.

Emails already off to NFATrustguy.

[losttrail]

Better yet, move out of this Marxist controlled state.

[sellersm]

I'm still confused on a lot of the ins and outs of these bills. Can someone explain to me why one or many firearms that were purchased by me and/or my wife can't be considered OUR firearms? She and I can BOTH own a particular vehicle. Is the only reason we can't BOTH own a particular firearm simply the fact that we don't register/title firearms?

Not that I'm looking for titling or registration... just curious is all.

And therein lies the problem with this madness! Try and define ownership in the context of this proposed legislation, without the use of some form of registration.

[Gman]

I can buy a gun for my wife without her having to have a BGC. We're treated as a single legal entity. We have common property.

This sounds like a liberal mess....but that statement is redundant.

[colo-pr]

I'm still confused on a lot of the ins and outs of these bills. Can someone explain to me why one or many firearms that were purchased by me and/or my wife can't be considered OUR firearms? She and I can BOTH own a particular vehicle. Is the only reason we can't BOTH own a particular firearm simply the fact that we don't register/title firearms?

Not that I'm looking for titling or registration... just curious is all.

The Gun Registration is in the corner my friend, the ONLY WAY to enforce this is with GUN REGISTRATION.

[Rucker61]

I'm going to form an anarcho-syndicalist commune with all my friends, family and members here with joint ownership of all firearms. We can take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...

[cstone]

I'm going to form an anarcho-syndicalist commune with all my friends, family and members here with joint ownership of all firearms. We can take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...

Come see the oppression inherent in the system.

I see what you did there.

[XC700116]

I'm still confused on a lot of the ins and outs of these bills. Can someone explain to me why one or many firearms that were purchased by me and/or my wife can't be considered OUR firearms? She and I can BOTH own a particular vehicle. Is the only reason we can't BOTH own a particular firearm simply the fact that we don't register/title firearms?

Not that I'm looking for titling or registration... just curious is all.


The idea is that you could potentially pass and her fail a BGC or the other way around. For instance I know a guy who has a felony on his record, and his wife is a deputy, she can buy/own but he cannot, and she must keep her duty weapon (and any others) locked up without his access to be legal. It's stupid, but it's also unfortunately reality.

[Katastrophic]

I can buy a gun for my wife without her having to have a BGC. We're treated as a single legal entity. We have common property.

This sounds like a liberal mess....but that statement is redundant.

Exactly what I thought seemed logical, but that would be too good to be true given what I've seen these last couple of weeks. This is going to give much job security to the NFA lawyers out there for awhile.

[ChunkyMonkey]

link! I need a link!
UPDATE


MARCH 11 LIVE FEED - 3RD FINAL READING



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=zCxDYt2jcCY#!

[dwalker460]

Monkeys link is still the danged music and we will be back screen. Anyone have a fresh one?

[blacklabel]

Voting now...

[Katastrophic]

http://www.coloradochannel.net/live-broadcast

[XC700116]

Monkeys link is still the danged music and we will be back screen. Anyone have a fresh one?

click on the go live button next to the volume control.

[blacklabel]

Passes 19-16.

[Katastrophic]

1224 up now

[th3w01f]

But here's the question and some here may be able to answer it, currently, do you have to do a CBI BGC/4473 on NFA items, once you're approved by ATF?

I've been told by 2 Class 3 dealers that a 4473 is needed when picking up the approved item. These are my first so I can't say for sure but they probably know what they're doing.

[two shoes]

1224 next

[mtnhack]

Where is Marble's bombshell?

[buckshotbarlow]

FUCKING ASSHOLES, all of those damn 'eye' votes....don't call me to protect you!

[buckshotbarlow]

glock most popular?

[neversummer900]

Here we go this is the knuckle buster. This is where good men&women will stand up or they will lay down and let freedom die.

[wctriumph]

OK, so say I get a job that takes me away from home for a week. My wife is disabled and has her State of Colorado issued MMJ license and so is not allowed to own a gun under federal law but I am unclear if she is allowed to own a gun under state law (can I gift her a gun?). She can't get a CCW permit because of this and she can't pass a back ground check to purchase a gun unless she lies which is a federal felony. If she picks up one of my guns to protect herself she breaks the law, potentially both federal and state. She has two of her own guns so she wouldn't have to use one of mine but ... my head hurts.

We are so fucked

[Rucker61]

I really like this guy.

[brobar]

The idea is that you could potentially pass and her fail a BGC or the other way around. For instance I know a guy who has a felony on his record, and his wife is a deputy, she can buy/own but he cannot, and she must keep her duty weapon (and any others) locked up without his access to be legal. It's stupid, but it's also unfortunately reality.

True... but I'm still allowed to GIFT her that firearm without a background check with the potentiality that she could still fail a BGC. Another reason why I find this whole thing odd. The only way I can think around this unenforceable nonsense is for both of us to sign and date an affidavit stating that I transfer all of my firearms to her (so she can show that if she ever was questioned while using my firearm) and vice-versa. Obviously... we would need to never show those documents at the same time, because they would be contradicting. But would anything stop us from doing that so long as nobody ever saw either document at the same time?

[Katastrophic]

That's it, he made entirely too logical of a point.... it'll pass.

[XC700116]

True... but I'm still allowed to GIFT her that firearm without a background check with the potentiality that she could still fail a BGC. Another reason why I find this whole thing odd. The only way I can think around this unenforceable nonsense is for both of us to sign and date an affidavit stating that I transfer all of my firearms to her (so she can show that if she ever was questioned while using my firearm) and vice-versa. Obviously... we would need to never show those documents at the same time, because they would be contradicting. But would anything stop us from doing that so long as nobody ever saw either document at the same time?


Ultimately, the bill is dumb, no doubt, but you'll never convince Hick of that and the horse has already left the barn.

[MAP]

Where is Marble's bombshell?

Maybe an amendment?

[mb504]

w/o a registration database, nobody will know if you sell a gun to your buddy, brother-in-law, father, hunting buddy....whoever. It's completely unenforceable.
now on the other hand, a disgruntled neighbor could say he saw you buy a gun in your driveway from somebody and you would have to prove it otherwise. (I have to go dig around and look for some receipts)

Unless you bought it at an FFL after the effective date

[TFOGGER]

lost the stream...does anyone have a live link?

[mindfold]

lost the stream...does anyone have a live link?

http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/clics2013A/cslFrontPages.nsf/Audio?OpenPage

[ChunkyMonkey]

Monkeys link is still the danged music and we will be back screen. Anyone have a fresh one?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM5tRmhO_h4#!

[sellersm]

Unless you bought it at an FFL after the effective date

Please explain your logic. 4473 doesn't have details of the firearm... Going through an FFL for a purchase is NOT gun registration.

[thebriarman]

I've been watching at, http://videocenter.denverpost.com/services/player/bcpid63625388001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAADe65VU~,G496cZ36A _VfLp_hMeonEvZJ8gBAVEOa&bclid=1419798684&bctid=2212245343001
Hope it works for you

[merl]

Please explain your logic. 4473 doesn't have details of the firearm... Going through an FFL for a purchase is NOT gun registration.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf sectionD ?

[Bailey Guns]

Please explain your logic. 4473 doesn't have details of the firearm...

No details other than make, model, serial number and caliber. That information isn't entered/recorded for a background check.

[sellersm]

No details other than make, model, serial number and caliber. That information isn't entered/recorded for a background check.

My point was that information is to be held by the FFL, it isn't submitted to the ATF, is it? I could be completely wrong, in which case I admit it...

[buckshotbarlow]

we need to know if you have pink tassels hanging from your glock...

[Dave]

My point was that information is to be held by the FFL, it isn't submitted to the ATF, is it? I could be completely wrong, in which case I admit it...
And if the BATFE comes in and takes down all the info from every 4473 that FFL still has on file?

[brobar]

"I would rather die in a country that is free, than live in a country that isn't!"

Probably the best quote I've heard these past several weeks! BRAVO!

[sellersm]

And if the BATFE comes in and takes down all the info from every 4473 that FFL still has on file?

You mean like they did in CT after Sandy Hook?

[djkest]

Who is this guy? I have no idea what he's saying right now.

ETA: It's making more sense now. I like the "plastic and springs" line. :)

[Goodburbon]

I'm going to form an anarcho-syndicalist commune with all my friends, family and members here with joint ownership of all firearms. We can take it in turns to be a sort of executive officer for the week...
There's some lovely filth over here Dennis.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Who is this guy? I have no idea what he's saying right now.

Senator King

[mb504]

Please explain your logic. 4473 doesn't have details of the firearm... Going through an FFL for a purchase is NOT gun registration.

The 4473 does have the type, manf, and serial of the firearm. It doesn't get passed to cbi of nics, but it's on the 4473.

check page 3 : http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

If a firearm is traced, the go to the manf, then the distributor, etc etc, till they get to the first retail sale. After which, the trail mayl go cold, if the orig retail buyer sold, lost, gifted, or transfered.

[Dave]

You mean like they did in CT after Sandy Hook?
Yeah, they can do this of they are trying to trace a firearm used in a crime. I just worry that in the future they will do it as a means of building a register of firearms.

[mb504]

Yeah, they can do this of they are trying to trace a firearm used in a crime. I just worry that in the future they will do it as a means of building a register of firearms.

The law actually bars ATFEIOUEEEEE from taking the 4473 forms and making copies.... But it's been known to happen.

[colblaster]

In regards to the 4473, that is a federal form, the state has no legal right to access that form.
Not that that will necessarily stop anything, but there are some barriers in place which prevent CO from accessing those forms wholesale.

[Rucker61]

we need to know if you have pink tassels hanging from your glock...

Is this a euphenmism?

[Kraven251]

The moustache has the floor. Every time I hear this guy speak I like him.

[lowbeyond]

In regards to the 4473, that is a federal form, the state has no legal right to access that form.
Not that that will necessarily stop anything, but there are some barriers in place which prevent CO from accessing those forms wholesale.

you mean like a phone call or a walk in the door ?

[djkest]

I thought that a lot of states were cataloging information from the background checks and putting them into a state database?

[two shoes]

I thought that a lot of states were cataloging information from the background checks and putting them into a state database?
source?

[vectorsc]

I...can't watch. It's like watching your grandfather die in a hospital bed. You know that even if he does choke down another lungful of air it's only a delay of game.

[asmo]

Okay I am getting on a plane to DC. While I am in the air I am going to close my eyes and go to sleep -- when I wake up this will all have been a bad bad dream.

[mtnhack]

This guy is a fucking prick. "the criminal isn't going to fight fair, so let's make your life even more fucked by taking away your entire defense"

[colo-pr]

I...can't watch. It's like watching your grandfather die in a hospital bed. You know that even if he does choke down another lungful of air it's only a delay of game.

Hahaha, i feel The same, for this reason I don't want to watch.

Please if 1224 pass say it here in order start drinking util be dunk

[mtnhack]

I hope he's next to me at a theatre too. Human shield.

[lowbeyond]

this guy is a moron. ill never let my wife's hand go so i only have one hand to fight with. [fail]

i hope there is a ccw dude at the theater cause im a fukking moron.

[djkest]

This is pretty stupid. This guys emotional arguments make no sense.

Oh my goodness. I cannot believe he just made this argument. The 30-round magazine killed 11 children.

This guy is ridiculous. Can he really feel this way? What kind of stupid idiot is he?

[John123]

WTF?

[Rabid]

RMGO is attacking Prof. Dave Kopel for running damage control on this bill. Not sure i like that position.

[mindfold]

I really don't want to die to save someone when I can kill the bastard and live.

[ChrisC]

I really don't want to die to save someone when I can kill the bastard and live.
+1

[Rucker61]

Man, this guy has balls.

[lowbeyond]

if i trained my kid well they will be able to change a mag in 11 seconds ? [ROFL1]

[car-15]

11 seconds to change a mag? wtf[fail]

[Raul Duke]

11 seconds for a mag change? Seriously?

[mtnhack]

Standing on the graves of children. should be proud

[dwalker460]

If I ever took 11 seconds to change a mag I deserve to be shot in the fucking head.

[XC700116]

Fawking Moron, a mag change and you move fro cover, and you're dead. Good for you moron.

[Rabid]

This proves the dems are just running off of emotion and agenda on all of these bills.

[djkest]

Apparently the best evidence to support this bill is that it takes everyone 11 seconds to change a mag. No more, no less. And also no criminals will ever get ahold of a 30 round mag, they will only get the 15 rounders; and take 11 seconds to change them.

[tmleadr03]

It took me 11 seconds to change mags once. I had to load the second mag before putting it in the rifle.

[roberth]

Standing on the graves of children. should be proud

Welcome to the party of the Democrat (CPUSA). The ends justify the means. The ends are the destruction of the constitution, the means are using the death of children to further their evil.

[lowbeyond]

i'd get up and speak and dis-invite this frakking d-bag from the watermelon shoot and file restarining orders on him so he has to turn in his guns. lol

[jslo]

RMGO is attacking Prof. Dave Kopel for running damage control on this bill. Not sure i like that position.

Sitting next to him now. Any message you'd like me to convey?

[battle_sight_zero]

This proves the dems are just running off of emotion and agenda on all of these bills.

They are acting upon marching orders from Obama and Bloomberg. Lets start the recall process on the vunerable ones and start preparing for 2014

[Jesus-With-A-.45]

Sitting next to him now. Any message you'd like me to convey?

Is hitting him in the face an option?

[jslo]

this guy is a moron. ill never let my wife's hand go so i only have one hand to fight with. [fail]

i hope there is a ccw dude at the theater cause im a fukking moron.

Got a hug from all the Dem ladys, including Heath

[MAP]

Sitting next to him now. Any message you'd like me to convey?

Ask him how I can help with the upcoming law suits.

Mike

[Rabid]

Sitting next to him now. Any message you'd like me to convey?
Dave Kopel or Dudley Brown?

[jslo]

Is hitting him in the face an option?

Uh oh, what he do?

[UnoTaco]

Is the online stream down?

Edit: Nevermind, stream link changed.

[TFOGGER]

Sitting next to him now. Any message you'd like me to convey?

Dudley or Dave? If it's Dudley, please let him know that united we stand, divided we fall.

[jslo]

Dave Kopel or Dudley Brown?

Kopel

[Gman]

If I take 11 seconds to change a mag, it means I left it in the car.

G-

Sent from my tactical android.

[wctriumph]

I assume you mean Dudley. Tell him to keep fighting and never compromise our rights. The House of Murphy in Ft. Collins supports RMGO and will give a donation by month end,

[Jutt]

Great quote (Sen. King):
“Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men.”- St. Augustine

[lowbeyond]

I'll Never Let you Go Johnston

*bang bang* Your dead. whoopise

Hey i dropped my coke can i have another ? [LOL]

[mb504]

This proves the dems are just running off of emotion and agenda on all of these bills.

Except when it was HB1226, then it was false stats and agenda.

[J]

I'll give him this, Johnston is a good speaker. And as we have seen recently, oratory skills are often more influential than the substance and truth of the subject spoken.

[buckshotbarlow]

i'll repost from page70ish...don't ask me to fucking protect your a$$ u 19'rs.

[Rabid]

Kopel
Please give him my most sincere thank you for bringing facts, numbers and thought in opposition of these bills and another thank you for running damage control for when these bills pass.

[mindfold]

Biden help with recall election....[ROFL2]

[T.rexford]

Who was the last speaker? The woman.

[Rabid]

Except when it was HB1226, then it was false stats and agenda.
Can not argue with that.

[bigshane]

Signing off. Fuck these fucking fucks. I'm so mad that i'm choking back the bile.

[Rucker61]

I hereby move to amend 1224 that bad guys have to count "OneMississippi, two Mississippi,...Ten Mississippi" between reloads.

[sellersm]

I hereby move to amend 1224 that bad guys have to count "OneMississippi, two Mississippi,...Ten Mississippi" between reloads.


[ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL]

[jslo]

Tochtrop appears to be a no vote, just made a round of private discussions with some of the Repubs

[MAP]

Tochtrop appears to be a no vote, just made a round of private discussions with some of the Repubs

Will we get a 3rd no vote from a dem?

[Trisha]

I'd be grinding my teeth except it wouldn't matter to anyone but my dentist.

I move to amend it with a requisite administration of 1cc of epicac on each reading.

[car-15]

[ROFL1]nice example!![ROFL2]

[Rabid]

I dont need the ipecac i already feel sick

[colo-pr]

If an idiot democrat say this about 11 second to change a mag and the bill pass is another proof that this people don't hear anything and just be there to complete the fucking Obama agenda.

[DavieD55]

Did they just vote on 1224?

[Gman]

If an idiot democrat say this about 11 second to change a mag and the bill pass is another proof that this people don't hear anything and just be there to complete the fucking Obama agenda.
How many times do they need to prove it?

[mtnhack]

Did they just vote on 1224?Not yet.

[Gman]

Is the fat lady warming up?

[jslo]

Will we get a 3rd no vote from a dem?

Tochtrop, the guy sitting next to her and Nicholson seem to be outcast. Have seen no Dem speak to them on the floor. Out in the halls, I have no idea.

[osok-308]

how's 1224 looking for us? Does it look like we'll get 1 more no vote?

[XC700116]

Awesome, Senator saying, "I will not obey this law"

[dwalker460]

BOOOM! Brophy FTMFW!

I Will NOT OBEY THIS LAW.

[Teufelhund]

Awesome, Senator saying, "I will not obey this law"

Followed by a round of applause and pounding of the gavel. Epic.

[John123]

Nice!

[jslo]

We just got scolded by the ass.[Beer]

[madmike283]

Booyah! That was awesome. He made it pretty blunt and clear. I love it.

[buckshotbarlow]

sweet, we just had a senator stand up...and tell the fucking truth about out of state purchases...

[Madeinhb]

Hell ya this guy is awesome.

[dwalker460]

If you are one of those who do not respect the Republicans, watch closely. THESE are the people fighting for your rights. Support them.

[XC700116]

Of course the dems in the room probably didn't even flinch since most of them don't think they should have to obey the laws we already have either.

[MAP]

BOOOM! Brophy FTMFW!

I Will NOT OBEY THIS LAW.

We should all send him a PMag.

Mike

[Rabid]

We just got scolded by the ass.[Beer]
Congrats

[osok-308]

Who was the senator who said "l will not obey this law"?

[madmike283]

Of course the dems in the room probably didn't even flinch since most of them don't think they should have to obey the laws we already have either.

LOL, good one.

[BPTactical]

Once again, Brophy da Beast!

A nice and willful FO to those across the aisle!

[ChunkyMonkey]

Need a bumper sticker on that quote!

[lowbeyond]

We should have a road trip on July 2. Buy this guy a mag. heh

[jslo]

Dems that were snoozing just shit themselves when the gavel came crashing down. May need a recess to check um[ROFL2]

[T.rexford]

Holy shit. He's the man!

[Rucker61]

This guy is hitting the right points in the right way. They should call for the vote right after his speech.

[blacklabel]

Damn, he gets it.

[roberth]

one more than the bad guy :):)

[jslo]

This could go on for awhile. 2 Repubs and 1 Dem waiting and Holbert and Harvey have yet to be heard. Anybody think those 2 will go unheard before this final vote?

[Rucker61]

Oh, yeah, "She likes to use two hands when she takes aim"

[colo-pr]

3 stickers for me please...

PD: also 1 Tshirt!!!

[XC700116]

Shit, I need to head to the airport, I'm going to miss the vote I think. [Rant1]