I did from 1981-1984 and they deported me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
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I did from 1981-1984 and they deported me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Keep in mind that 60% of all illegal immigrants enter the country legally. The federal government has no ability, and no plans to create a system to track visa overstays. Border security is important but does not address the current issue of illegal immigration.
Undocumented minors at the border or already in the country are not handled by the agencies most of us think of when we talk about immigration; DHS, INS, CIS, etc... These cases are handled by the Department of Health and Human Services http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/programs/ucs/about
Bullshit. They have the ability to track every phone call or email we send. They can track the money we earn via the IRS (just try not reporting wages on your W-2). They have an almost unlimited budget of our tax dollars. They can track what they want to track.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
What they don't have is the will to enforce the law. Border security has a lot to do with it, because they have to get here in the first place. Whether they do it by exploiting our crappy visa system or by simply walking over the border.
I agree with all this, but what to do about one individual, compared to what to do about future immigration is a different conversion. As a country we're far better off discussing future solutions to immigration, than complaining about sunshine shouldn't have been here to start with. That point is completely beside the point and has zero relevance to anything. I just find it pointless to say, "...he shouldn't have been here to start with..." well, they are, so let's not waste time discussing make believe situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
Also, I noticed no part of your answer included any self-deportation, which is the point I was trying to make.
My comment was not about capability. I simply meant that as of today, the federal government has no system, and there are no plans to create a system, which will track visa overstays. I agree that there is no political will in this country that will compel Congress or the President to address the issue. I believe that significant players in both parties see the current illegal immigration issue as working for their own interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
If not one single person illegally crossed the US border next year, we would still have a significant illegal immigration problem in the US and hundreds of thousands of people legally entering the country would become illegal immigrants when their visa expire.
IMO, tracking phone calls and emails is a piece of cake technologically compared to tracking people.
Another interesting statistic is that 85% of illegal immigrants currently in the US have at least one US citizen family member. Current immigration enforcement (for the past 20 years at least) has given preference to not deporting illegal immigrants who have family ties to a US citizen. Based on this statistic alone, it seems highly improbable that any politician gain office or would remain in office if they were to support rounding up illegal immigrants while breaking up the families of US citizens.
When Mexico and Central America provide equal or better living conditions and opportunities than the US, most illegal immigrants will not come to the US. How do we make the US look worse to illegal immigrants while making their opportunities at home seem more appealing?
UPDATE: I would like to correct my post above. There is a law, passed by Congress and signed by President Bush in 2004; 8 U.S. Code ยง 1365b - Biometric entry and exit data system The first few years of the system resulted in US-VISIT and the current system is under the control of DHS Office of Biometric Identity Management. As of 2013, the federal government has admitted that they are still unable to meet the requirements of the statute even after millions of dollars and a decade working on a solution. http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/11/13/w...iciary-hearing
I stand behind my opinion that the best solution to illegal immigration in the US is finding ways to encourage self deportation.
That's just silly, you would not arrest anybodies 5 year old kids if they are in the car when the adults commit a crime. Here's what you do, arrest their adult legal guardians (parents) because I don't believe most 5 year olds are coming here on there own. If your parents brought you here illegally when you were 5 and you are now 18 and still don't understand the concept of illegal alien then your an idiot and should be deported. If your 18, here illegally and have done nothing to rectify the issue except hide in the basement and hope it all goes away then yes you are guilty of a crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Our government believes it can register and track every gun in this country, and that is an inanimate object smaller than a bread box. If they can do that then they are capable of devising a system to track visa's and the people that they issued them to. We know they can, but it requires them to own up to the fact that expired or no visa equals "here illegally".
If you are here illegally then you will keep that status until you go through proper channels to make your status legal. If this country insists that illegal's be allowed to stay, fine, but you will not have access to every service we citizens have. If you want those services that is your reward for becoming a legal occupant of this country. The entire problem stems from the fact that there are no consequences for being in this country illegally. And no reward for being here legally. That's what "fix the system" means, we must discourage illegal actions and reward proper behavior.
The last paragraph is perfectly reasonable and realistic. If you move here from Hawaii when you're five, and oh yeah your parents changed your name when you were a baby, but never updated your birth certificate, it wouldn't make sense to have to move back to Hawaii to fix your birth certificate. Nor would that change who you are, how you were raised, how you fit in with society, your willingness to be a contributing member to society, your willingness to get into bar fights, or raise or lower your likeliness to commit crimes ranging from speeding to murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E3
We can't even begin to pretend to talk about immigration issues until people can get past the knee jerk reaction of "Jus' deport 'em all back to Mex-e-co!"
Maybe a better example is if you were born into a crazy cult and you didn't find out until you were 18 that you were home birthed and there is no record of you anywhere in the country. That doesn't make you a criminal, but now that you're a legal adult, the responsibility falls to you to get yourself documented if you want to have a chance at making your way in this country. It'd make just as much sense to deport a crazy cult baby to Mexico though.
My point is that we need to close the door. Then you can go about figuring out what to do with the ones already here.
Otherwise, let's not fix the hole in the boat and just keep bailing. That'll solve the problem.
There are multiple holes and as we have both stated, there is no political will to truly address the issue.
I wish it was not so, but it certainly seems to be the reality we are forced to deal with.
I think we're all pretty much in agreement here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
I think the number you are looking for is 40%Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
http://www.politifact.com/florida/st...nts-are-overs/
40% or 60%...? The federal government estimates range between 27% and 57%. so I won't quibble on the numbers. All of this tells me that our government doesn't have any clue as to how people are getting into the country. It seems clear to me that while border security is important, it is not the only problem that needs to be addressed. Whether they come legally and then remain and become illegal immigrants or come illegally, the problem still remains. Will the federal government address the problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Singlestack
Some light reading:
http://cis.org/us_visas_still_easy_to_get.html
http://www.pewhispanic.org/files/factsheets/19.pdf
FWIW, I agree 100%. Not only are the overstayed Visa's a huge part of the illegal immigration problem, they are a big problem with national security as well. Many of the 911 hijackers were overstayed, for example.
You're falling for the left's narrative/brainwashing that it's not REALLY a crime and if you want illegal immigrants deported you're just a racist redneck. I don't buy the "crazy cult baby" analogy- What crime was committed there? and that person would have no tie to Mexico, where the illegal immigrant has parents that were citizens there. I see it more as the punishment fits the crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
If there's no punishment for a crime, is it really a crime? What do you think the penalty should be for remaining in this country after you become an adult and you know full damn well you're here illegally? Because a crime is being committed... and if they're willing to ignore that law, what other laws are they willing to ignore?
For what it's worth, I believe in immigration reform... but full amnesty seems like there's a political party buying their votes.
I don't think the powers in charge really want to change it, since it perpetuates a serf population (cheap/free labor).
I'm not falling for anything. If you brought here by someone else when you were a kid, you haven't committed a crime, your parents did. How do you justify punishing an adult for the crimes of another adult? Even if we decided as a country to just whole sale deport any person who isn't a citizen, none of the countries they came from would care enough to do anything about it and just let them filter back through. It's just not as simple as removing people. So many other factors have to be changed in order to get any where. Otherwise we're just wasting resources to temporarily displace a problem that will come back worse each time.
So you're for full amnesty for anchor babies?
Even if they can't be bothered to apply for citizenship?
Why even have the process, if there's no punishment for not doing it? What does it even matter being a citizen, then?
The way I see it, they're ok with being a fugutive...
"Anchor babies" are US citizens. Family relatives of these US citizens are much less likely to be deported because current federal immigration policy favors family members of US citizens. "Anchor babies" are citizens because of the 14th Amendment and how it has been interpreted by the the US Supreme Court. Short of an amendment to the Constitution, I don't see any change to this issue despite the current rhetoric from some political candidates.
Minor children, born outside the US, who were brought here or stayed here illegally are not treated like criminals and they are not even treated like adults who immigrated here illegally. Minor children, like the numerous unaccompanied children crossing the border in larger numbers for the past few years are dealt with by the Department of Health and Human Services. They are given immigration court dates for hearings but many never appear. Even if they did appear, it is unlikely they would be deported as long as they have a family member (doesn't matter whether that family member is a legal resident or not) who will care for the minor child. The Department of Health and Human Services does not deport people.
It would be hard for anyone to untangle the intentional mess our federal government has made of immigration in our country.
IMO this is not an issue of capability but lack of national will to address the issue.
Even if we had the will as a nation, it wouldn't matter if the nations where people are coming from don't also have that same will. Tough situation to be in, but not impossible.
Exactly correct. Securing our national borders is one of the few things the Federal government is charged with doing in the Constitution...and they're not doing it. We don't need cooperation from any other nation to have enforceable laws and the responsibility is clearly that of the Feds.Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
I agree that non-violent felons should be able to earn their rights back. Many who stay in the system will never earn that right so the majority will never be able to own firearms if the law were to change. But I have met several in my life and my line of work that should have earned that right back several times over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
i also think this ruling is a second amendment win. I think it's a dangerous game to start selecting which constitutional rights apply to who at different times within our nation. I know it's already been said but government doesn't give or grant rights. The bill of rights were written to show which rights were God-given and could not be removed by government
I think this^ is the true root of the problem. Politicians and parties are trying to buy votes and everyone knows it's a bad thing for the future of our country, but whichever party caves first to give amnesty to all illegals will effectively guarantee that they win every future election with millions of additional votes (which have been conveniently distributed to many conservative, rural areas around the country).Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
I personally would not be worried about life long devotion to a party, let alone spanning over generations.