Court: Second Amendment also covers those in US illegally

[brutal]

Well, I how you don't feel safe at night and why haven't you gone back to wherever you were born yet?

I did from 1981-1984 and they deported me.

[cstone]

Keep in mind that 60% of all illegal immigrants enter the country legally. The federal government has no ability, and no plans to create a system to track visa overstays. Border security is important but does not address the current issue of illegal immigration.

Undocumented minors at the border or already in the country are not handled by the agencies most of us think of when we talk about immigration; DHS, INS, CIS, etc... These cases are handled by the Department of Health and Human Services http://www.acf.hhs.gov/programs/orr/programs/ucs/about

[Gman]

The federal government has no ability, and no plans to create a system to track visa overstays. Border security is important but does not address the current issue of illegal immigration.

Bullshit. They have the ability to track every phone call or email we send. They can track the money we earn via the IRS (just try not reporting wages on your W-2). They have an almost unlimited budget of our tax dollars. They can track what they want to track.

What they don't have is the will to enforce the law. Border security has a lot to do with it, because they have to get here in the first place. Whether they do it by exploiting our crappy visa system or by simply walking over the border.

[Irving]

What's being done about the next 10,000 illegal 5 year olds? Nothing.

We can keep debating this issue until the cows come home. Not a damn thing is being done to stem the flow.

We can't even observe the rule of holes; When you find you're in one, put down the shovel.

I agree with all this, but what to do about one individual, compared to what to do about future immigration is a different conversion. As a country we're far better off discussing future solutions to immigration, than complaining about sunshine shouldn't have been here to start with. That point is completely beside the point and has zero relevance to anything. I just find it pointless to say, "...he shouldn't have been here to start with..." well, they are, so let's not waste time discussing make believe situations.

Also, I noticed no part of your answer included any self-deportation, which is the point I was trying to make.

[cstone]

Bullshit. They have the ability to track every phone call or email we send. They can track the money we earn via the IRS (just try not reporting wages on your W-2). They have an almost unlimited budget of our tax dollars. They can track what they want to track.

What they don't have is the will to enforce the law. Border security has a lot to do with it, because they have to get here in the first place. Whether they do it by exploiting our crappy visa system or by simply walking over the border.

My comment was not about capability. I simply meant that as of today, the federal government has no system, and there are no plans to create a system, which will track visa overstays. I agree that there is no political will in this country that will compel Congress or the President to address the issue. I believe that significant players in both parties see the current illegal immigration issue as working for their own interests.

If not one single person illegally crossed the US border next year, we would still have a significant illegal immigration problem in the US and hundreds of thousands of people legally entering the country would become illegal immigrants when their visa expire.

IMO, tracking phone calls and emails is a piece of cake technologically compared to tracking people.

Another interesting statistic is that 85% of illegal immigrants currently in the US have at least one US citizen family member. Current immigration enforcement (for the past 20 years at least) has given preference to not deporting illegal immigrants who have family ties to a US citizen. Based on this statistic alone, it seems highly improbable that any politician gain office or would remain in office if they were to support rounding up illegal immigrants while breaking up the families of US citizens.

When Mexico and Central America provide equal or better living conditions and opportunities than the US, most illegal immigrants will not come to the US. How do we make the US look worse to illegal immigrants while making their opportunities at home seem more appealing?

UPDATE: I would like to correct my post above. There is a law, passed by Congress and signed by President Bush in 2004; 8 U.S. Code § 1365b - Biometric entry and exit data system The first few years of the system resulted in US-VISIT and the current system is under the control of DHS Office of Biometric Identity Management. As of 2013, the federal government has admitted that they are still unable to meet the requirements of the statute even after millions of dollars and a decade working on a solution. http://www.dhs.gov/news/2013/11/13/w...iciary-hearing

I stand behind my opinion that the best solution to illegal immigration in the US is finding ways to encourage self deportation.

[Big E3]

So you'd charge a four year-old with a felony?

That's just silly, you would not arrest anybodies 5 year old kids if they are in the car when the adults commit a crime. Here's what you do, arrest their adult legal guardians (parents) because I don't believe most 5 year olds are coming here on there own. If your parents brought you here illegally when you were 5 and you are now 18 and still don't understand the concept of illegal alien then your an idiot and should be deported. If your 18, here illegally and have done nothing to rectify the issue except hide in the basement and hope it all goes away then yes you are guilty of a crime.

Our government believes it can register and track every gun in this country, and that is an inanimate object smaller than a bread box. If they can do that then they are capable of devising a system to track visa's and the people that they issued them to. We know they can, but it requires them to own up to the fact that expired or no visa equals "here illegally".

If you are here illegally then you will keep that status until you go through proper channels to make your status legal. If this country insists that illegal's be allowed to stay, fine, but you will not have access to every service we citizens have. If you want those services that is your reward for becoming a legal occupant of this country. The entire problem stems from the fact that there are no consequences for being in this country illegally. And no reward for being here legally. That's what "fix the system" means, we must discourage illegal actions and reward proper behavior.

[Irving]

That's just silly, you would not arrest anybodies 5 year old kids if they are in the car when the adults commit a crime. Here's what you do, arrest their adult legal guardians (parents) because I don't believe most 5 year olds are coming here on there own. If your parents brought you here illegally when you were 5 and you are now 18 and still don't understand the concept of illegal alien then your an idiot and should be deported. If your 18, here illegally and have done nothing to rectify the issue except hide in the basement and hope it all goes away then yes you are guilty of a crime.

What is the logic behind deporting someone who was raised here? The parents are out of the equation, and the birth country didn't send them here. You'd be punishing someone who didn't do anything. I can't agree that just because you turn a certain age and haven't self deported to a place you're not familiar with makes you a criminal.

Our government believes it can register and track every gun in this country, and that is an inanimate object smaller than a bread box. If they can do that then they are capable of devising a system to track visa's and the people that they issued them to. We know they can, but it requires them to own up to the fact that expired or no visa equals "here illegally". I don't know of any evidence that our government believes this, but that's besides the point.

If you are here illegally then you will keep that status until you go through proper channels to make your status legal. If this country insists that illegal's be allowed to stay, fine, but you will not have access to every service we citizens have. If you want those services that is your reward for becoming a legal occupant of this country. The entire problem stems from the fact that there are no consequences for being in this country illegally. And no reward for being here legally. That's what "fix the system" means, we must discourage illegal actions and reward proper behavior.

The last paragraph is perfectly reasonable and realistic. If you move here from Hawaii when you're five, and oh yeah your parents changed your name when you were a baby, but never updated your birth certificate, it wouldn't make sense to have to move back to Hawaii to fix your birth certificate. Nor would that change who you are, how you were raised, how you fit in with society, your willingness to be a contributing member to society, your willingness to get into bar fights, or raise or lower your likeliness to commit crimes ranging from speeding to murder.

We can't even begin to pretend to talk about immigration issues until people can get past the knee jerk reaction of "Jus' deport 'em all back to Mex-e-co!"



Maybe a better example is if you were born into a crazy cult and you didn't find out until you were 18 that you were home birthed and there is no record of you anywhere in the country. That doesn't make you a criminal, but now that you're a legal adult, the responsibility falls to you to get yourself documented if you want to have a chance at making your way in this country. It'd make just as much sense to deport a crazy cult baby to Mexico though.

[Gman]

My point is that we need to close the door. Then you can go about figuring out what to do with the ones already here.

Otherwise, let's not fix the hole in the boat and just keep bailing. That'll solve the problem.

[cstone]

There are multiple holes and as we have both stated, there is no political will to truly address the issue.

I wish it was not so, but it certainly seems to be the reality we are forced to deal with.

[Irving]

My point is that we need to close the door. Then you can go about figuring out what to do with the ones already here.

Otherwise, let's not fix the hole in the boat and just keep bailing. That'll solve the problem.

I think we're all pretty much in agreement here.