NAGR spends more than every gun group combined on lobbying

[kawiracer14]

As someone who is fairly new to the world of guns, but not to organizations involved in legislature and lobbying, I must say you are doing an excellent job keeping perspective members away from your organization.

Obviously you know how forums work - there are very few forums where people post their full name, address, phone number, etc for everyone to see. If you aren't interested in responding to "anonymous" forum posters - perhaps you should take your posting elsewhere.

The whole point of these forums is to have open discussions and feedback. Maybe twitter is more your speed where you can post whatever you like and people actually have to put in a little effort to see how people responded to your comments.

Even Facebook requires that you not delete negative comments from things you post as an organization even if you don't like them.

[RMGOdirector]

Look at the thread, from the beginning. I posted an article proving what NAGR spent on lobbying Congress against gun control, and the first response is HBAR insinuating that I'm posting for money.

My personal finances are none of your business, least of all some douchebag (since this insult is apparently acceptable here) who hides behind a moniker. What RMGO pays Dudley Brown ($4000/month in salary) is public information, and I'm HAPPY to compare my salary to other execs who run similar sized organizations, or even to compare salaries based on size. The studies I've looked at (through Guidestar) show I am paid 1/3 the rate as others.

When I hear someone bitch about RMGO asking for money too often then tout the NRA, I gotta wonder what planet they are living on. But, that's the ONE area I don't disagree with the NRA on (they DO raise money -- just wish they'd spend it for the right purposes, but since I don't give them money, frankly, I've already voted with my money).

[sellersm]

Funny, the liberals have this idea all figured out... but for some reason, Dudley likes to poke the NRA/ILA and try to display them in a negative light. Instead, how about UNITING with them for a common goal? "But they haven't done this or that..." Quiet! MAN THE FUCK UP! Petty bickering and moaning about the other guy is only hurting us, not helping.

^This. See post #40. "They" are EXCELLENT at this.

Dudley, I understand your point about politicians,

Respectfully, public policy isn't made by public opinion. It's made by policy makers (i.e. politicians).

However, politicians are able to do what they do because they feel they've got public opinion behind them! And lots of lobbyists & backroom deals, etc. The system's busted, for sure. We get that. Has the NRA, or any other 2A organization always been our friend? Nope. In fact, if they REALLY did their job right, they'd be out of a job after they were done, and human nature doesn't like that very much (selfish greed, sin nature of man, and all that)!!

So, fighting against a NATIONAL registry is higher priority than fighting against the 'registry' that's already taken place here in CO? If these local politicians here in CO would have been derailed & deflated, they wouldn't end up in the House/Senate in DC!!

Stop the seed from being planted & growing in the first place, and you won't have to deal with all the branches, birds and leaves of the tree later! Which is cheaper? Resources are ALWAYS finite: I vote for killing the seed.

[RMGOdirector]

Mr. Brown, as a RMGO member I support what you are doing, but I find your posts in this thread concerning.

You should never be worried about getting 'too mad' at the people you claim to represent. This is a forum you joined with what I can only assume is a desire to connect with like minded people and reach out to further the influence of all gun owners in the US. I agree with coloccw when he said we are providing you focus group intel at no cost. I think most members will agree there is something we disagree with the NRA on, so bashing them for what you don't like is preaching to the choir. Telling people who give you an opinion about what we think needs to be done differently within your organization should be met with praise and thanks for the information, along with a vow to address the issues we see, not sarcasm. Or calmly explaining why things are the way they are in hopes you can bring 'us' around to your way of thinking.

So that I am not another nameless person in your eyes:

David Peal
CS, CO 80922.

Message received. Understand that many think showing the differences with the organizations is negative. I don't.

The "unity!" plea is nice. I would love it. When we agree with the NRA (and I talk to ILA staff regularly), we even say so. But when we don't, and we think they are supporting gun control (the mental health database they are supporting right now is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction), we'll always say so. The die-hard NRA types don't like it, but so be it. We're going to be honest.

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.

[RMGOdirector]

Stop the seed from being planted & growing in the first place, and you won't have to deal with all the branches, birds and leaves of the tree later! Which is cheaper? Resources are ALWAYS finite: I vote for killing the seed.

Know anyone in Colorado who has knocked out more anti-gunners in the state legislature (i.e. the "seed")? All humility aside, no, you don't, at least in the last 2 decades.

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't suggest defeating gun controls (and it's proponents) in DC is more important than Colorado gun controls. It isn't. I'm just suggesting that I believe it's smarter to spend money on changing policy makers than to try to change the public's minds about guns.

Look at the balanced budget amendment issue. 85% of America agreed with passing a BBA. We got ONE vote (and lost) in Congress. What, are we going to "educate" America to 90%? That still won't stop the profligate spending.

[sellersm]

I think you misunderstand me. I didn't suggest defeating gun controls (and it's proponents) in DC is more important than Colorado gun controls. It isn't.

I did misunderstand you, if that's what you meant. HOWEVER, your ACTIONS showed otherwise (by going to DC instead of fighting with us here in CO).

I'm just suggesting that I believe it's smarter to spend money on changing policy makers than to try to change the public's minds about guns.

That statement is NOT mutually exclusive to the other statement and really doesn't address the issue of supporting (or not) the local CO fight! I can see your point, and that's fine. However, I"m suggesting we fight the LOCAL "policy makers", especially when we know they're headed to DC after this 'stop' in CO!!!

For the record, I'm a support of RMGO, NAGR, NRA and others. And my name's in my forum username...

I leave it with this: I understand that if these types of organizations are really successful, they'll be out of business soon, and that's a hard pill for many to swallow. Same with every other type of "Pro-whatever-group-it-is" groups: if they were successful and eliminated whatever "wrong" they were fighting to correct, then what would they do after that? Go get real jobs? <a bit tongue in cheek>

[hghclsswhitetrsh]

This is how we lost the last two presidential elections. Why can't we all just get along?!?!?!

[sellersm]

This is how we lost the last two presidential elections. Why can't we all just get along?!?!?!

Yep. See Post #40.

[3beansalad]

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.

We all get that, and often can support it, but when you come off as an ass (not meant personally of course,) you do as much harm as good with your message. This forum, as mostly Coloradans and gun owners, should be a place you come for support (not just financial) and brainstorming. Anyone who has an issue with RMGO or NAGR should feel free to voice it and have it addressed. If not personally by you, have a staff member reach out via PM to that member and see how you can correct the problem. There is no better, or more damaging, review than word of mouth. I would imaging many of the members here are friends off-line, hell I have family in this forum, and when something goes wrong we talk about it. You can either be supported by the more vocal members here, or refuted by them. The beauty of it is you get to decide which one...

When you do stand with the NRA or any other organization, you need to highlight those instances as well as when you disagree with them. Show your members, and detractors, that you can 'Stand and Fight' with another group when it counts. Now maybe you do that well and I've just not read the emails I receive thoroughly enough.

[Ronin13]

Message received. Understand that many think showing the differences with the organizations is negative. I don't.

The "unity!" plea is nice. I would love it. When we agree with the NRA (and I talk to ILA staff regularly), we even say so. But when we don't, and we think they are supporting gun control (the mental health database they are supporting right now is a MASSIVE step in the wrong direction), we'll always say so. The die-hard NRA types don't like it, but so be it. We're going to be honest.

I'm not a diplomat. Never claimed to be. I'm a bare-knuckled political brawler. I believe gun owners deserve less candy sprinkled on the turds in the punchbowl.

It's plainly obvious you've never been in the military- otherwise you'd know that working together with your allies usually ensures victory, and fighting on more than one front usually always (with few exceptions) ends in a harsh and cold defeat. I don't ask you to be a diplomat, I don't care what kind of "political brawler" you are... like it or not, we are losing this fight, just look at what transpired in Denver this year despite all the public opposition. So do you think perhaps maybe you should switch up your tactics and see how that pans out? Or will your ego not allow for that? You say "unity" like it's a dirty word. If you try to say you're not constantly trashing other groups, then why is this thread titled "NAGR spends more than every gun group combined"? Every pro-2A group is going for a common goal, for the most part. You don't like the way they do things? Don't like some of the things they've done in the past? Okay. But just remember, Bloomberg seems to be working quite well with Obama (who wanted to put NG troops in NYC after Sandy, against what Bloomberg wanted- they came together against guns, though). I don't care about your pleas for more money- every org needs to gain funding somehow. What I care about is the fact that you won't even entertain the idea of putting aside petty squabbles with the NRA and other groups, and figuring out a way to unite, and defeat these elitist, anti-constitution hacks. We are losing, and despite your narcissistic perception of reality, it's partially because of attitudes like yours.