Women will be allowed to serve in combat

[SuperiorDG]

[Joe_K]

In my experience as a Rifleman in the Marine Corps infantry, there were plenty of weak bodied men that could barely carry thier own weight. They slowed down the stronger and more agile Grunts. The standards of being a Marine should not be the standards of being a Infantryman. I hope that with this PC motivated announcement, that the Marine Corps announces even higher physical fitness standards for the Infantry. They have every right to do so. You know for Janes safety.

Plus wtf are they going to write down on Janies Infantry Training Battalion graduation cert? 0311/ Infantrywoman doesn't quite have the right ring to it. Facepalm. America dies a little more.

[Skip]

[snip]

I'm afraid you'll have to explain in a bit more detail how having "female grunts" will "break America's will."

The days of gentleman officers bringing troops to bear against one another, obeying a set rules of engagement, with respect for POWs is over. 4GW will be the future and there is growing evidence that even more civilized nations will use 4GW forces as proxies. You may have noticed the US is supporting some fairly unsavory characters in Syria for this very reason.

Female POWs won't just be taken hostage and quietly abused/executed. It will be on YouTube/Liveleak for all to see and used as propaganda. If you haven't seen the ISIS vids, then I would suggest you do so. Not to turn your stomach but to understand how the enemy has changed.

While Washington/media/Liberals/Feminists are "progressive" and think they can tolerate this, the rest of the country is not. The idea of someone's daughter, mother, wife being graphically tortured to death will change psychology.

To the Jessica Lynch thing, she wasn't knocked unconscious by a grenade. The controversy over that, and the general feeling of disdain among Army personnel toward her are due to the fact that she, admittedly, didn't fight. She said it, she didn't fight, she didn't fire a single round, and when things looked most grim, she "went down, praying to my knees." That's flat out cowardly. No room for that in any front-line position.

[snip]

I want to be clear... How she became a POW is irrelevant (to me) and not why I brought her up. I mean her no disrespect for how it may/may not have happened. The intense international focus on a single POW, precisely because she was female, is why I brought her up.

Can you name one other POW from the same timeframe? I can't without hitting Google. The people in her convey who died are largely forgotten. If she had died, she would have been forgotten as well (sad, but true). The recovery of Pvt. Lynch became an important mission for the reasons I stated above.

Now put that on the team/plt/company level. Think about how that hits the news cycle stateside. That was my point and I know we agree on the other points you've brought up.

I just wanted to call out that I wasn't bashing or accusing Jessica Lynch of anything or blaming her.

[Zundfolge]

This crap would go away overnight if it wasn't optional ... opening up the ranks of combat troops to women who volunteer is foolishness ... opening the ranks of combat troops and telling chicks fresh out of boot "guess what honey, I know you had your heart set on being a REMF but you're infantry now" and you'd see less support from the feminists for it.

[Skip]

I don't think I implied any of that, nor does any of it matter. My only point is that it is a weak argument to say that being in the military is difficult. Men and women have toiled and fought their way through the highs and lows of the entire history of the human race together. There are plenty of things in life that are equal to, and even surpassing the difficulties of combat roles in the military, and if women were as fragile and frail as they are made out to be, they would have died out thousands of years ago. There aren't that many good arguments against women in the military, so let's not waste our breath even discussing topics like hygene, carrying weight, staying awake, or even rape. Our women don't have to go intobattle to face potentially being raped by men, hell that starts in middle school.

You must be selectively reading.

My argument is that the performance of the extraordinary GI Janes who sets a precedent for 51% of our population is irrelevant because of the nature of warfare. While women do tough things in life that I couldn't do, there isn't much historical precedent for civilizations that sent women into battle (as a rule) and prevailed.

If what you have said is true, then we wouldn't be having this conversation because women would have a millennia long record of serving in combat right next to men. It would be non-controversial.

And don't get me spun up on "rape culture." First world rape is an anomaly, so much so Feminists have to invent ways to get rapped ("I didn't say yes even though we're both naked in bed and I kept going" and "he lied to me" or "I regret it now"). Absent rule of law (aka any warzone) it is a regular occurrence and mostly unreported. You may have heard of the recent scandal involving a certain Army officer who reported the regular and unmitigated (through leadership) rape of children in Afghanistan. Same deal and those were our "allies" with which women would hypothetically serve.

This is a hard reality and doesn't change based on how strong, capable, or worthy a woman is.

[RblDiver]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. The Marine commander did a study which found that the females in the unit had more injuries and couldn't shoot as well as the men. That's a reason why he was against the integration. The SecDef doesn't care and said full steam ahead anyway.

[Irving]

I think this may be one of those things that has to be done so that in the future we can say, "We tried this, and it didn't work."

[TheGrey]

The days of gentleman officers bringing troops to bear against one another, obeying a set rules of engagement, with respect for POWs is over. 4GW will be the future and there is growing evidence that even more civilized nations will use 4GW forces as proxies. You may have noticed the US is supporting some fairly unsavory characters in Syria for this very reason.

Female POWs won't just be taken hostage and quietly abused/executed. It will be on YouTube/Liveleak for all to see and used as propaganda. If you haven't seen the ISIS vids, then I would suggest you do so. Not to turn your stomach but to understand how the enemy has changed.

While Washington/media/Liberals/Feminists are "progressive" and think they can tolerate this, the rest of the country is not. The idea of someone's daughter, mother, wife being graphically tortured to death will change psychology.




I want to be clear... How she became a POW is irrelevant (to me) and not why I brought her up. I mean her no disrespect for how it may/may not have happened. The intense international focus on a single POW, precisely because she was female, is why I brought her up.

Can you name one other POW from the same timeframe? I can't without hitting Google. The people in her convey who died are largely forgotten. If she had died, she would have been forgotten as well (sad, but true). The recovery of Pvt. Lynch became an important mission for the reasons I stated above.

Now put that on the team/plt/company level. Think about how that hits the news cycle stateside. That was my point and I know we agree on the other points you've brought up.

I just wanted to call out that I wasn't bashing or accusing Jessica Lynch of anything or blaming her.

Thanks for the clarification!

I need to think some more. You bring up some very good points.

[Brian]

Lots of interesting points all around here. Just wanted to say as a side note that I'm glad you're here Tan. We need more like-minded females on this sausage-fest of a forum.

[davsel]

I think this may be one of those things that has to be done so that in the future we can say, "We tried this, and it didn't work."

Are you serious?
We're talking about people who put there lives on the line, and you are suggesting, let's just see what happens?