Father forgot he put gun in his son's backpack. He was arrested for what he did next.

[TheGrey]

I'm not perfect.

It is something my Dad ingrained in me. For all the things I have never taken seriously in my life from my HS grades to most of my life's responsibilities...for whatver reason firearms was the one thing that "I got" and "took seriously".





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Your implication that nobody except you takes firearms seriously is not only unfounded, but you're coming off as completely unhinged.

Not that it matters, in the long run.

We all agree that safety is paramount...but this wasn't a case of letting a two-year-old chew on his daddy's gun while his mom yaks away on the phone. There is a great deal of difference between neglect and making a mistake.

I think you just don't want to admit that such an extreme stance may be a bit much. We're not arguing if he made a mistake or not. Your argument is that because he made a mistake, his right to firearms should be revoked. You have yet to explain WHY.

In addition to explaining why, you may also want to list the errors that someone could make and still retain possession of their firearms. What if they drop a bullet when they're loading their magazine? What if they don't clean their firearm after every use? Those could be safety violations, too. Who gets to confiscate them?

I don't recall any specific laws against those rather draconian "firearms etiquette" rules that exist in your head, but then again, I'm sure you'll be sure to point them out, Emily Post.

[GilpinGuy]

I've avoided this thread for the most part. And I don't mean to bash anyone here. Just maybe encourage some thought.

I have carried into a Post Office a few times. Shit, the Post Office here is about 300 square feet and there's never anyone in there. I walk in the guy says "Hi John, here's your stuff!" But I've committed a mortal sin according to the law. My former propane guy (not BG, BTW) used to open carry his .44 Roscoe in there. Who cares? Oh, the law does. But nobody else. At least not here. Should we both be banned from owning firearms?

I have also carried into my baby girls preschool many times, thinking it was OK because it was a private school and not a government indoctrination center. I have since learned that I may have committed a mortal sin there too - perhaps hundreds of times. Should I have my rights stripped away?

Laws and rules should be enforced but the punishment should be administered on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances. "No Tolerance" means no judgement based on the facts.

[Irving]

Relax John, it's not like you threw cash onto a craps table in the middle of a roll and yelled out a bet.

[GilpinGuy]

Now THAT would be unforgivable, especially if done while barking.

[ben4372]

I've avoided this thread for the most part. And I don't mean to bash anyone here. Just maybe encourage some thought.

I have carried into a Post Office a few times. Shit, the Post Office here is about 300 square feet and there's never anyone in there. I walk in the guy says "Hi John, here's your stuff!" But I've committed a mortal sin according to the law. My former propane guy (not BG, BTW) used to open carry his .44 Roscoe in there. Who cares? Oh, the law does. But nobody else. At least not here. Should we both be banned from owning firearms?

I have also carried into my baby girls preschool many times, thinking it was OK because it was a private school and not a government indoctrination center. I have since learned that I may have committed a mortal sin there too - perhaps hundreds of times. Should I have my rights stripped away?

Laws and rules should be enforced but the punishment should be administered on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances. "No Tolerance" means no judgement based on the facts.

Nice . And thanks for adding "Roscoe" to my vocabulary. I had google it. Not sure how it slip by.

[CS1983]

I'm not perfect.

It is something my Dad ingrained in me. For all the things I have never taken seriously in my life from my HS grades to most of my life's responsibilities...for whatver reason firearms was the one thing that "I got" and "took seriously".





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Gman said prefect (whether intentionally as a tongue in cheek purposeful mistake of "perfect"), or truly as a mistake.

I rolled with it.

pre·fect
ˈprēˌfekt/
noun
noun: prefect; plural noun: prefects

1.
British
in some schools, a senior student authorized to enforce discipline.
2.

[CoGirl303]

When I say no margin for error, I'm not talking about zero tolerance. I'm just saying that no margin for error is the mindset we all should have when handling firearms.

I'm not perfect, once left my carry gun in my car overnight. The car was locked, but I had been out running errands, grocery shopping and it was about 7:00 pm when I got home. Took the stuff and groceries in, locked the car and was putting groceries away. My puppy wanted to be fed and so I fed her, sat down on the couch to rest a few minutes but I was so tired I passed out and didnt wake up until 3 am. At 5 am I went to take my camera bag out to the car to go meet with a guy for a photoshoot of his car and my gun was gone, along with my dvd nav unit and some other stuff.

Should I have lost my rights permanently? no I don't believe so (nor do I believe anyone else who has had that happen should lose theirs) because I locked my car, but had the law allowed for such, I would have deserved a year or two revocation of my concealed carry license to learn from that.

Thankfully, they caught the scumbag a few days later at a hotel. He had stolen someone's ipad and the idiot was using the internet and they tracked him through the findmyipad app. He also had one of those electronic devices that scans key fob frequencies which was how he was getting in to people's cars.

Anyhow, I no longer leave my carry weapon in the car unless it's in a lock box or safe. It's either on my person or in my purse.


Grey, I never once said "everyone" doesn't take it as seriously as I do. Do NOT put words into my mouth. I said "some" people's laissez faire attitudes in regards to gun safety are disappointing.

I will remain by my stance whether you or anyone else likes it or not. We'll just agree to disagree.

a 53 year old should reasonably KNOW better.

I've avoided this thread for the most part. And I don't mean to bash anyone here. Just maybe encourage some thought.

I have carried into a Post Office a few times. Shit, the Post Office here is about 300 square feet and there's never anyone in there. I walk in the guy says "Hi John, here's your stuff!" But I've committed a mortal sin according to the law. My former propane guy (not BG, BTW) used to open carry his .44 Roscoe in there. Who cares? Oh, the law does. But nobody else. At least not here. Should we both be banned from owning firearms?

I have also carried into my baby girls preschool many times, thinking it was OK because it was a private school and not a government indoctrination center. I have since learned that I may have committed a mortal sin there too - perhaps hundreds of times. Should I have my rights stripped away?

Laws and rules should be enforced but the punishment should be administered on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances. "No Tolerance" means no judgement based on the facts.

I wouldn't think your rights should be taken away in such an instance.


What I'm referring to (and my comments are being completely taken out of context to 9th degree) is instances like the Dad leaving the gun in the backpack, a kid gets moms gun and shoots his baby brother by accident, a kid takes his dad's gun to school and shoots 8 students. Guy horsing around at the range with a loaded rifle, aiming it carelessly or swinging it around on his shoulders back and forth with no regard for the safety of others around him/her.

It might have been reasonable to take your rifle to school in 1971 and have it in the gun rack above the window of your truck, but its not 1971 any more. Today is a drastically different culture and mindset of people.




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[brutal]

I've avoided this thread for the most part. And I don't mean to bash anyone here. Just maybe encourage some thought.

I have carried into a Post Office a few times. Shit, the Post Office here is about 300 square feet and there's never anyone in there. I walk in the guy says "Hi John, here's your stuff!" But I've committed a mortal sin according to the law. My former propane guy (not BG, BTW) used to open carry his .44 Roscoe in there. Who cares? Oh, the law does. But nobody else. At least not here. Should we both be banned from owning firearms?

I have also carried into my baby girls preschool many times, thinking it was OK because it was a private school and not a government indoctrination center. I have since learned that I may have committed a mortal sin there too - perhaps hundreds of times. Should I have my rights stripped away?

Laws and rules should be enforced but the punishment should be administered on a case by case basis, based on the circumstances. "No Tolerance" means no judgement based on the facts.

I may or may not have done one or both of these same things, but can't remember...

Guess I'll just turn all my guns in now.

[TheGrey]

Yeah, that's what I thought.

When I say no margin for error, I'm not talking about zero tolerance. I'm just saying that no margin for error is the mindset we all should have when handling firearms.

I'm not perfect, once left my carry gun in my car overnight. The car was locked, but I had been out running errands, grocery shopping and it was about 7:00 pm when I got home. Took the stuff and groceries in, locked the car and was putting groceries away. My puppy wanted to be fed and so I fed her, sat down on the couch to rest a few minutes but I was so tired I passed out and didnt wake up until 3 am. At 5 am I went to take my camera bag out to the car to go meet with a guy for a photoshoot of his car and my gun was gone, along with my dvd nav unit and some other stuff.

Should I have lost my rights permanently? no I don't believe so (nor do I believe anyone else who has had that happen should lose theirs) because I locked my car, but had the law allowed for such, I would have deserved a year or two revocation of my concealed carry license to learn from that.

Thankfully, they caught the scumbag a few days later at a hotel. He had stolen someone's ipad and the idiot was using the internet and they tracked him through the findmyipad app. He also had one of those electronic devices that scans key fob frequencies which was how he was getting in to people's cars.

Grey, I never once said "everyone" doesn't take it as seriously as I do. Do NOT put words into my mouth. I said "some" people's laissez faire attitudes in regards to gun safety are disappointing.

I will remain by my stance whether you or anyone else likes it or not. We'll just agree to disagree.

No, what you said was far more insulting: "I just take my gun rights, gun safety and my responsibilities very seriously. Shame you and others do not."

Yeah. Your ass is showing, by the way.

When given the opportunity to explain your thinking further, you decide instead to backtrack and suggest your "comments are being taken out of context to the nth degree."

They are not.

It's one thing to state that you think a gunowner is a complete nimrod to have made such a mistake. We all agree. The fact that everyone makes mistakes is eminently relatable (and by the way, age makes NO difference as to whether you make a mistake or not. By your own logic, you're too old to have left your carry gun in the car. It was stolen! What if it had been used in the commission of a crime? What if someone had died?! You see? It's easy to escalate the 'what-if' game, which is a typical move for the gun-grabbers. 'If it saves one life, it's worth the loss of your 2nd Amendment rights,' is their slippery-slope logic, which is what I am objecting to in your argument.) People are relating to that mistake, because everyone makes errors such as that. It's genuinely human.

The reaction of "He made a mistake with a firearm, so he deserves to lose his right to carry!" is what is being objected to. When you are asked for your reasoning as to why you suggest such extremes, you make the assertion that apparently I (and others) don't take my gun rights, gun safety, and gun responsibility seriously. Because my opinions are different from yours, so therefore I am clearly WRONG. Yeah, that sounds very familiar.

And you are quite, quite wrong when it comes to your pat and unfounded assessments of my attitudes ("and others") toward gun responsibility and safety.


As far as your examples:

"What I'm referring to (and my comments are being completely taken out of context to 9th degree) is instances like the Dad leaving the gun in the backpack, a kid gets moms gun and shoots his baby brother by accident, a kid takes his dad's gun to school and shoots 8 students. Guy horsing around at the range with a loaded rifle, aiming it carelessly or swinging it around on his shoulders back and forth with no regard for the safety of others around him/her. "

The legal terms that help to define such things are "neglect" and "intent" when referencing crime. Such things are crucial when it comes to determining the factors of a case; and for good reason. Mitigating circumstances apply in most cases. Could you imagine living in a society where you are penalized so harshly for making a genuine error? In your provided example, I get it. You were tired, forgot your gun in the car. It happens. Maybe this father had worked a mid shift and was tired, and screwed up.`

The point is, the law MUST allow for the human element.

[Gman]

The point is, the law MUST allow for the human element.

...or what else is it good for? People that make laws also screw up. Once you have involved people in the equation, there's no perfection, no matter how serious the consequences.

"Zero Tolerance" means nobody is thinking.