"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[brutal]

<said in a Tony the Tiger voice> They're great!

[davsel]

Here we go. You don't pay a dime for Superchargers. The bill goes to Tesla. If you bought a Tesla then there is some cost association built into the selling price of your car. Tax payers don't subsidize Superchargers.

Just because the bill is made out o Tesla, does not mean taxpayers are not subsidizing payment. Taxpayers ARE subsidizing the existence of Tesla and every bill they pay.

Your slight at EV subsidies assumes that there are other means of transportation that don't get gov't subsidy. How much do we subsidize the cost of oil/gas? I don't buy gas or oil yet my taxes go to keep the cost of oil and gas artificially stable and low. Who benefits from that? Are you trying to tell me that oil companies don't take any handouts and are non-profits trying to make the world a better place? lol

Never stated any of that. However, I will point out that I directly pay the tax for the gas I put into my car.

BTW, if you're talking about loans and "handouts" it should be noted that the loan that Tesla took (like the other manufacturers) has been paid back in full years ahead of schedule (unlike the other car manufacturers who are rapidly headed towards insolvency).

BTW, I never mentioned it

Creating the energy that goes into an EV is only as clean as the state wants it to be. Some states still burn a LOT of coal for production. Many use far far less. All are moving towards a larger amount of renewable energy sources for production. EVs take the middle man (fuel refinery/production/distro) out of the picture. It's up to states to implement cleaner production and whatever improvements are made at the highest level are magnified by EVs. This is a pretty simple concept that many like to overlook in their anti-EV rants.

Again, all subsidized with everyone's tax dollars without consent.
Not exactly capitalism - this form of government expenditure has another name.

Saying that states have electricity issues is exactly why EV is important. It's driving (pun intended) the battery technology that will be used to stabilize our electrical grid. Look at places like Australia and Hawaii where electricity costs are through the roof and brown/black outs are common. Tesla steps in with Powerwall and Powerpack solutions and nearly overnight their problems are going away. Inside of those Powewalls and Powerpacks... the exact same cells that are in the cars. Tell me again how this is HURTING power generation and supply.

And without Govt subsidies, it would not be "affordable!"

I love how in your scenario the "politically connected" are the clean energy and EV industries that are the big bad wolf looking to blow the poor little innocent oil companies straw houses down. ROFL

Just because you call it "clean energy" doesn't make it so. ROFL

[Grant H.]

Yes, lithium mines are big and "ugly", and in some areas they are worked by folks that shouldn't be there.

That is not Tesla's fault.

The need for Li goes FAR beyond Tesla.

[Honey Badger282.8]

So.. For you and others the EV isn't a 1 size fits all solution. for ICE

I'd consider one if. They were much more affordable . They were more utilitarian and most of all, ADA friendly.

IMO The Tesla is more a status symbol for people to thumb their nose at the peon's, who stick to outdated technology. Sitting around a fire to heat their homes.

As the market currently sits, no, EVs are not a one size fits all solution. Regardless, that still doesn't mean that the vast majority of Americans, today, couldn't "make do" with an EV. As to the elitists that "thumb their nose at peons," I'd consider them to be the minority. The Tesla is no different than any other luxury car brand; it has obnoxious leg-humpers that get all of the attention, but they are far from the majority.

Regarding the production of batteries, that process isn't "green" but it is greener than oil extraction and refining. The 8 years to offset figure was based on a very flawed Dutch study that did not account for the production of gasoline that the ICE vehicles would use. And, obviously, EVs are only going to be as green as the source of their power generation. If someone lives in the heart of coal country, their EV isn't much greener than a standard hybrid. If someone gets their power from nuclear or renewables then it is considerably greener than any of the alternatives.

The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.

https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas...t-green-think/

Arguing against EVs because they aren't 100% clean doesn't make sense to me.

[ray1970]

Regardless, that still doesn't mean that the vast majority of Americans, today, couldn't "make do" with an EV.

Making do is for communists. Americans go big or go home.

[ChickNorris]

I was worried you'd take my post the wrong way. Your points are fine and it's a discussion to be had. I'm talking more specifically about general discussions about whether an EV is realistic to use for people. There is always the person who shows up to argue about whether it is really more green or not. If that person doesn't care about how green something is, then who cares how green an EV is? Once something hits main stream, people are going to enter the market regardless of their feelings toward the environment.

Same with towing. If there are zero EV trucks on the market at this time, why is towing a part of any discussion? No one buys a sedan with the intent to tow.

Not no one, I put a hitch on our passat.

[ray1970]

Just to bang your shins or what?

[Irving]

Sure, but that's not why you bought the Passat.

I'm curious about planes not being able to fly over a pit. What does that mean?

[ChickNorris]

Making do is for communists. Americans go big or go home.

^^^^this

[Honey Badger282.8]

Making do is for communists. Americans go big or go home.

Agreed. That sub 3 second 0-60 MPH time wouldn’t happen in a communist country.