Islam Perversion My Butt!

[Krasni]

If you make the broad generalizations that everyone who follows a faith obeys every tenet, and if your basis of information about (for example) the Christian faith was reading the Bible and assuming that they all followed it to the letter, you'd have a very dim view of that faith. I know of no mainstream Christian religion that doesn't (in whole or in part) discard the laws of the Old Testament.
H.

Terrible example. Old Testament is old. Christ broke it and gave (Christians) a new covenant with God. Some refer to this as the New Testament. No?

[SA Friday]

M888 is right as it pertains to all sects of the Islamic religion. They all see conversion as a necessary requirement. Hoosier is right in that not all sects are as radical in theirs views as to what is allowed (right and wrong) to bring this conversion of the infidel. The Arab Sunni Hambali muslim are the more radical sub-sect of thinking about this concept in the Islamic faith. Not all sub-sects of the Sunni nor the Shia sides of Islam are ultra radical in this thinking. There are a small minority of sub-sects of Muslims in the world still enveloping societal laws and norms into their versions of Shira law. Unfortunately, Hambali has spread like a plague over the last 100 years, and has exploded with the support of the Saud family support and financing of madrasas all over the world.

IMO, all non-Islamic being subservient to the Islamic in a Muslim country has been consistant across the board in the countries I've been in. BUT, lets be real clear about what the Islamic beliefs of what constitutes an infidel are before it thrown around in this thread like a dead cat. An infidel is a person who doesn't believe in 'God'. All of the sons-of-Abraham believe in the one true god, and are NOT labeled as infidels according to the Koran. Pegans are infidels, and any other use of the work in reference to Islamic beliefs is incorrect. Infidels have the opportunity to convert or die according to the Koran. Jews and Christians have to pay to live in a Muslim country and remain subservient to the Muslims while there (also according to the Koran).

The Col is correct in many ways. The Koran (and other books of guidance in the Islamic faith) relate the WORLD converted to Islam. Muslims, due mostly to lack of external opinions contradicting anything from the religion in their societies, believe these texts as gospel truth. Even when they say they don't, it's so engrained into their culture, they simply cannot believe any other possible truth. This is where the extremism comes from in the Islamic faith. No other points of view are allowed, contradictions to the faith are crushed and immediately amputated from their society, and diversity is seen as a contradiction.

Eventually, Islam will change or perish. History consistantly shows cultures that fail to diversify and revere isolation die. We just need to financially and physically isolate them from relevency IMO, and they will die off in their own due time.

[theGinsue]

What is it we are fighting against?

He's making the assumption that Muslims all interpret those books in the same literal way. It's patently false. There are many branches of Islam, just as there are many sects in every other religion. Each sect (in every religion) interprets their various holy books in different ways.

If you make the broad generalizations that everyone who follows a faith obeys every tenet, and if your basis of information about (for example) the Christian faith was reading the Bible and assuming that they all followed it to the letter, you'd have a very dim view of that faith. I know of no mainstream Christian religion that doesn't (in whole or in part) discard the laws of the Old Testament.

Obviously, there are numerous people of Muslim faith who are against the idea of Jihad against the west. You cannot make a statement about the beliefs of a billion people and expect to to be wholly true.

TL;DR He says Jihadism must be universally accepted by Muslims because it's in their holy book. I say if you are Christian, I need a maid around my house, how much as you willing to sell your daughter for? Exodus 21:7

H.

Krasni responded to your comments as I intended to respond before I got the chance. I'm no ordained minister and perhaps Pistol Packing Preacher can correct me if/where I'm off base here, but Christians are under the New covenant which is all spelled out in the New Testament. THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE. We still have the Old Testament (which is essentially - but not exactly - the Jewish Torah) more as a way for us to know God better and know what he has expected of us and how it has remained consistent throughout time, even with a new covenant. Perhaps, if you were addressing a Jew, I could see you making your arguement, but for Christians it simply holds no water.


Yes, there are many different sects of Muslims with very diverse teachings and beliefs. What we need to understand of their culture is that they are all fuedal. Look at their religion throughout time. When Islamics didn't have outsiders (non-Muslims) to war against, they fought with those of differring sects, or flavors, of Islam. You don't even need to go back in history more than 25 years to get a huge view of this. Iranian Muslims fighting Iraqi Muslims because they did not believe the same way. Even within Iraq itself you've had the differing sects warring against the other sects to the point of attempting genocide - all because "you don't belief the way I do".

It is my personal belief that the fighting won't stop until the last two Muslims on earth - who have seen fit to eradicate everyone else on the planet - have it out and one kills the other. Only then will there be peace. Fighting and killing is so deeply ingrained into their cultures, customs, beliefs, and ideologies that they have no higher desire than to fight and kill.

Theirs IS NOT a peaceful religion, there are just those who present a more peaceful front to that religion. In the end it's convert, or die.

[Hoosier]

Christians are under the New covenant which is all spelled out in the New Testament. THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE. We still have the Old Testament

My point wasn't to do with actual teachings, but that if you just picked up a Bible and read it as the only basis for how you interpret what Christians are, you'd have a much different opinion than reality. In other words, if you read their holy books (as is suggested) and then assume that all of them follow just that, you'd be wrong.

If you want to know what various sects believe, a better place to start would be to listen to their "sermons" and see what they're really saying. I believe that to be true regardless of the faith. For example, Rev. Wright is a "christian" but another Christian who listens to what he says might walk away with another point of view.

H.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Eventually, Islam will change or perish. History consistantly shows cultures that fail to diversify and revere isolation die. We just need to financially and physically isolate them from relevency IMO, and they will die off in their own due time.

Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?

[jake]

Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?

Lots of younger Muslims born and raised in Western societies are clashing with their elders about the level of freedom they want, no?

[jake]

We still have the Old Testament (which is essentially - but not exactly - the Jewish Torah) more as a way for us to know God better and know what he has expected of us and how it has remained consistent throughout time, even with a new covenant. Perhaps, if you were addressing a Jew, I could see you making your arguement, but for Christians it simply holds no water.

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you're trying to make here, but it sounds to me like you're saying that even though we have a new covenant with God, the Old Testament still shows us what God expects of us; including all of the things that according to the video Zundfolge linked to we would be surprised to learn are in the Koran.

[theGinsue]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the point you're trying to make here, but it sounds to me like you're saying that even though we have a new covenant with God, the Old Testament still shows us what God expects of us.

Yes, and no.

It is my understanding that we study the OT to understand God better and to learn that He wants us to know Him and worship Him. No, because the "how" for accomplishing the first part is different in the NT than it was in the OT. Many of the rules no longer apply.

Just my take.

[ChunkyMonkey]

Lots of younger Muslims born and raised in Western societies are clashing with their elders about the level of freedom they want, no?

Hence the stoning and murders of the younger generation even here in US, no? Even some converting muslims from the western world are known to fight his/her own fellow countrymen in the name of Islam. Where have you been?

[SA Friday]

Islam has been steadily among the fastest growing religions in the past 2000 years, no?

The Inca, Myan, and many others lasted a hell of a lot longer than the current Islamicly influenced countries. Then this one day, this big boat thingee with a few dozen weird looking guys piled out and everything went to shit in a heartbeat. There are tons of examples of this throughout ancient cultures and modern cultures. Diversify or perish.