"Electric Vehicles are Actually Worse for the Environment than Internal Combustion Cars"

[Jer]

You know how it goes when you "assume"? I didnt say an EV could work but I dont like them. I said it doesnt work for where I live. I am glad for your Tesla friend in Nebraska. I dunno his situation and you dont know mine.

To each his own. The technology isnt quite to the point that it would work for me. I am sure that time is coming. We will see.

Right, because you didn't bother to share your situation so I'm forced to make ASSumptions in order to further the conversation.

You make a blanket statement like "EVs don't work for me" without offering a single hint of a reason as to why. Then, when someone engages with you in an effort to have a friendly 2-way conversation about it because they're genuinely interested in what that reason is, you offer nothing other than ridicule and more inflammatory words.

Good talk. Super constructive.

If I had a nickel for every person who told me "EVs don't work for me" over the years and now owns one (with the only regret being not doing it sooner) I'd probably have enough to buy a nice cold beer to drink by now. Not a Coors either. One of those fancy brewery beers that they're so proud of and price accordingly. But I guess you're just "the one" huh Neo? No sense even discussing it respectfully.

[colorider]

I have heard that batteries typically last about 10 years before requiring replacement and the cost to replace can run you about $4k. A big negative for me as I tend to hold onto my vehicles for 15-20 years. My Toyotas/Hondas have easily done that with little or no repairs required.

If battery life is an issue, I also wonder the impact to the used EV car market. I would expect technology to make improvements in the areas of battery life/replacement cost, range and charge time.

Try more like $20k or more to replace an EV battery pack. Electric motorcycle battery packs are running 4-5g right now.

[DDT951]

I have heard that batteries typically last about 10 years before requiring replacement and the cost to replace can run you about $4k. A big negative for me as I tend to hold onto my vehicles for 15-20 years. My Toyotas/Hondas have easily done that with little or no repairs required.

If battery life is an issue, I also wonder the impact to the used EV car market. I would expect technology to make improvements in the areas of battery life/replacement cost, range and charge time.

Lithium Ion batteries lose capacity each time they are discharged / recharged.

A VERY VERY good battery will have 60-70% battery life after 3000 cycles of CAREFUL charge-discharge. Fast depletion / fast charge hurts that cycle life (i.e. C/2 is much better then 2C charging). Getting them hot (think above 60C) will damage them quickly. Draining them down and fully charging them hurts them. Optimal (for cycle life) is keep battery 40-80% capacity. But then you only have 40% of design capacity that can be used.

Batteries have limits that one must learn to live with them to use them.

[Jer]

I actually started a new thread as this thread to discuss this since this thread was created for different reasons. It's become this weird amalgamation of heated debates sprinkled with useful info here and there. I wanted to create a new thread where people can discuss the topic more openly and respectfully rather than having to wade through this thread that jumped the shark years ago.

For anyone who wants to respectfully discuss EVs as a whole and post up any questions they may have, try here....

New thread: Open Discussion of all Things Electric Vehicle (aka EV) for Those Pro or Con, BE RESPECTFUL!

I doubt I'll be following this one much longer.

I think the "not practical" is a valid argument when.

1. Weather is very cold (lithium batteries are stored cold when they want to put batteries into "hibernation")
2. Long distance driving involved
3. Trailer towing or heavy loads (especially with long distances).

Gasoline / Diesel definitely has the advantage over batteries with 1) amount of energy that can be carried on a vehicle and 2) speed at which the energy can be replaced.

What I envision in my future (not immediate) is there will probably be mix of electric and hydrocarbon fueled vehicles. I could see keeping my pickup for the reasons listed above, but for a "city car" or "daily driver" electric would probably be really good.

I "borrowed" this post to kick the conversation off over there. Hopefully you don't mind. When (read: if) the commission check comes in for starting the thread I'll split it with you

[clodhopper]

Right, because you didn't bother to share your situation so I'm forced to make ASSumptions in order to further the conversation.

You make a blanket statement like "EVs don't work for me" without offering a single hint of a reason as to why. Then, when someone engages with you in an effort to have a friendly 2-way conversation about it because they're genuinely interested in what that reason is, you offer nothing other than ridicule and more inflammatory words.

Good talk. Super constructive.

If I had a nickel for every person who told me "EVs don't work for me" over the years and now owns one (with the only regret being not doing it sooner) I'd probably have enough to buy a nice cold beer to drink by now. Not a Coors either. One of those fancy brewery beers that they're so proud of and price accordingly. But I guess you're just "the one" huh Neo? No sense even discussing it respectfully.

Wow. Thin skin much? What evil voice did you have turned on in your head when you read my post? I was just responding to your long winded challenge that there is no reason an EV wouldnt work for me cause *electrics*. I didnt realize I was expected to blather on about my life over a web forum to justify my stance that an EV is not the optimal vehicle for my life. I am glad it works for you, as I have said. To each his own.

Sheesh.

[bradbn4]

I will take both sides of the argument for 500 Alex.

Where I want to move to; EV would not work for me because the closest town is well over 75 miles...and that is just a township of about 500. A round
trip to the close CostCo would be over 500 miles. Now an EV for farm use might work to travel to the barn, move stuff around.

Now if I lived back on my folks old farm, an EV would work, esp if I tossed in a pole garage with Solar Panels on the roof. Why? Because free power.
I would only need to get to town once a week, driving distance round trip would be under 25 miles. Now if I wanted to shop at the super Walmart, then
that round trip would be close to 200 miles.

A guy at work had an EV that worked quite well...travel distance was under 40 miles round trip. For him it was perfect...mostly EVs can be useful if the
round trip distance falls well within 1/2 max travel distance of the EV. His house was wired for 220 in the garage so charging up the car was not an issue.

Now the smallest car that I ever owned was a SMART for 2 car which was about perfect city car that I will ever own. Good mpg, every easy to park and
drive around town. I had the vehicle for over 5 years and it was good for what it could do. However, it was a royal pain to get serviced because the
dealership was in the big city above 75 miles away. That Smart car however, did not like traveling above 65 mph - so long distance travel in it was not
worth the effort. Another major down fall of the Smart car was it required high test fuel. And boy did I hate having to pony up around $1.00 more per
gallon of gas.

When the Smart car was no longer a reliable form of transportation, I replaced it with truck... I still miss not having a small commuter car, but my truck
does not get high centered on 6" of snow.

[DDT951]

Smart cars were a novelty for European cities. They were easy to park.

Even in Europe their impracticality was noticed and they are no longer popular.

Smaller cars like a VW Polo are the “small city cars”

And FWIW a Smart fortwo will do about 145kmh (90mph) flat out.

[bradbn4]

When I was over in Europe (before I bought my Smart Car) - I saw more than a few. They did have one cool version of the smart car that was never imported to the US of A.
At the time it was the best small car I could find...a few years after getting one there were more than a few much better small cars that would have been a better choice.

At high altitude, I don't think I ever got close to 85 mph in my Smart Car...I do remember once during a very high wind day that it was a big effort to maintain speed to about 50 mph.

Now back to the tangent on the subject, once Smart Car indicated that they would stop ICE imports to the US of A, I decided to dump the Smart Car. For me in Colorado Springs area with no local dealership - not worth my effort to upgrade to the current generation.



Now if I wanted a car that would slam my butt into my car seat; a full electric car I would be happy to consider the Lotus Evija.

The cool smart car that never made it to the US of A.

[MrPrena]

Speaking of Electrical bike, reminds me of this.

One of my coworker E.L. use to work under Lee and he went back to rejoin Lee's new startup.

This was 1997 if I recall my memory.

https://www.electricbike.com/lee-iac...electric-bike/

[clodhopper]