Another Example of America Becoming Less American

[Irving]

Whose to blame for this behavior then? The travelers? Department of Transportation?

[Guylee]

I can't watch it on the computer here at work so...my contribution is fluffy puppies.

[Rust_shackleford]

Sunshine, lollipops and rainbows,
Everything that's wonderful is what I feel when we're together,
Brighter than a lucky penny,
When you're near the rain cloud disappears, dear,
And I feel so fine just to know that you are mine.

[sniper7]

I would like to know why people are giving up their money to the cops. no way in hell would I let them steal my cash from me. give me a ticket...fine, but stealing my money...that is a whole new ballgame.

[SAnd]

I would like to know why people are giving up their money to the cops. no way in hell would I let them steal my cash from me. give me a ticket...fine, but stealing my money...that is a whole new ballgame.

How would you stop them?

[BPTactical]

Home Run CStone!


I am in agreement with Irving to a point. I dont think this is worthy of a "Cop Bashing" but it is open game for "Legislation Bashing" session. These "Civil Forfeture" laws are nothing more than government sponsored theft.
Denver for instance-peoples property seized and then even on aquittal or dropping of charges they still have to pay impound fees and storage.

Anymore it does seem that some agencies are being used as revenue generating machines than to "Serve and Protect".
I don't blame the officer on the street, they for the most part are doing as their superiors have directed them to do. I do have a problem with the fact of being pulled over for no other reason than having out of state plates.
"Do you have papers to be traveling in this state, Komrade?" coming soon?
And then to seize personal property when there is no evidence that a crime has been committed is Draconian to say the least.
Dont bitch at the gumshoe on the street.
Raise hell with the folks that write and pass these laws.

[Clint45]

The police just do what they're told to do. This is probably a political issue rather than a police abuses issue. I'm not too concerned about those individuals who are smuggling hundreds of thousands of dollars in circulated greenbacks across the Mexican border. IIRC, that violates some statute or another under US Customs law, and it is suspicious as hell. My biggest problem is with warrantless, intrusive, full vehicle searches without any justification other than a hunch. In some states police will attempt a vehicle search of anyone they pull over for any reason -- perhaps because it is after 10 PM on the weekend -- and that is for everyone, not just folks with out of state plates. They pull you over because they claim you did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign, or failed to signal a lane change, and the next thing you know they want to open the suitcase in your trunk without any reason to suspect any crime has been committed. Try and tell them "no" and see what happens. That is why some states will try to throw you in prison for recording police stops. Again, it is the political climate in certain states that encourages and permits police to do this sort of thing. It is not tolerated in most places. I haven't seen it in Colorado. Happens all the time in NY. Some liberal politicians probably want it to happen everywhere.

[Rust_shackleford]

That defense didn't work in Nuremberg and it will not work here. Right and wrong. My kids know what is right and what is not, these officers have sworn an oath to the Bill of Rights.

The police just do what they're told to do. This is probably a political issue rather than a police abuses issue. I'm not too concerned about those individuals who are smuggling hundreds of thousands of dollars in circulated greenbacks across the Mexican border. IIRC, that violates some statute or another under US Customs law, and it is suspicious as hell. My biggest problem is with warrantless, intrusive, full vehicle searches without any justification other than a hunch. In some states police will attempt a vehicle search of anyone they pull over for any reason -- perhaps because it is after 10 PM on the weekend -- and that is for everyone, not just folks with out of state plates. They pull you over because they claim you did not come to a complete stop at a stop sign, or failed to signal a lane change, and the next thing you know they want to open the suitcase in your trunk without any reason to suspect any crime has been committed. Try and tell them "no" and see what happens. That is why some states will try to throw you in prison for recording police stops. Again, it is the political climate in certain states that encourages and permits police to do this sort of thing. It is not tolerated in most places. I haven't seen it in Colorado. Happens all the time in NY. Some liberal politicians probably want it to happen everywhere.

[OneGuy67]

Holy Cow Irving! Give me a minute and I'll get to the thread! I do have a life, you know!

Who writes and interprets the laws of asset forfeiture?

There are rules for how the government divides the money and how it can be used. The largest portion of the property normally is converted for the use of the agency that seized the property.

Originally the laws were established to combat large scale narcotics trafficking and organized crime. Those laws are used for all kinds of crimes now, depending on how the federal, state, and local legislatures write their asset forfeiture laws.

CStone is right on these points. The state legislature makes the laws on the asset forfeiture here that directly affects all agencies in Colorado. They changed the laws back in the late nineties and forfeiture is very difficult now, because of it. That is why you don't hear about it too much in Colorado anymore. Now, I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to bring in the Feds on a case by a local agency who wants the Feds to adopt their case due to asset forfeiture. It is a 80/20 split for the local agency when the Feds do so. But, we generally do not agree with their assessment and the Feds do not generally want to get involved in small stuff.

These laws are being abused to fund those local agencies. When a specific department reaches the point that they need to shake down citizens and steal their money just to keep their job, it's pretty clear that losing jobs would be the better alternative. My friend Thomas has pointed out a similar situation with certain Colorado Springs departments spending money to hire motorcycle police, whose only real use is shaking down travelers for money during traffic stops. Can't fight much crime from a bike.

Kevin: This isn't anything new. Small towns in the south have been known for doing this for years and years. Didn't some small town in Texas just get into trouble over doing this a few years ago?

Where is OneGuy67 to come in here and remind us that he can't speak for any other state but ours? As far as I know, this isn't very common in our state, which I'm glad for. However, I don't have out of state plates, so maybe I wouldn't know.

I'm here Stuart!!! And yes, I'm going to say you can get riled up about what happens in another state that doesn't effect you at all, but the reality of it is, east of the Mississippi, you have less professional law enforcement, with lower standards of education, training, age, etc. West, you have higher standards (with a few exceptions, mind you). East, more unions; west, less unions.

I went to training in Louisiana a few years back for a month and their idea of law enforcement scared the crap out of me.

I can't say that Colorado Springs promoted (you wouldn't be hired to be a motor cop; too many people in the agency would want that job) more people to the motors, but they are exclusively used for traffic enforcement, which means tickets, which does mean two things: revenue and traffic safety (that's the thought anyway).

Well I tend not to use lines like "What do you have to hide" and so on. First off I hate them. Next I prefer not to end up being involved in a Supreme Court case because I pushed too much. At the end of the day is that worth a career and so on, especially when there is nothing proving to to be illegal. If they are criminal, they will eventually get caught, if not by me then by somebody. If I have nothing I have nothing.

My PD does not do seizures. There was a case not too long ago where they had a ton of money and several vehicles as evidence and it turned out to be more of a hassle than the PD was willing to go through to keep it rather than destroy it or do whatever they did with it.

Stu/Irv, I understand about those small southern towns that do that, and really it's sad. That crap has to end. And I think that Eagle got in trouble for something similar to this not that long ago...but I'm not sure.

I agree with Kev on this wholeheartedly.

I always told my trainees that every decision they made possibly had the end result of them losing their house, their family and their way of life, so not to make stupid decisions. Knock on wood, in nearly twenty years, I haven't had a case be appealled at any level and I don't hope it starts anytime soon. I haven't been sued and thanks to in car camera's, I haven't had a complaint on me go farther than the complainant and my supervisor reviewing the videotape and trying to see where I did or said what the complainant accused me of.

I think this video is a great example of a bad department and a bad cop. No doubt there are external influences in play here, but that doesn't justify unlawful stops just to try to find something on out of state travelers. I'm sure they had some pretty legitimate stops but I think they have probably had plenty that were not.

One good cop friend of mine once told me about the "silly" laws on the books that only get used when he was looking for a reason to stop someone in the first place. If he suspected a gang member (he was on the gang unit) then he would pull them over for too much tint on their windows or some other violation that he normally wouldn't pull someone over for - but in the end it was a just stop.

Now in the case of a cop pulling me over without any justification and asking to search my vehicle I would absolutely say no. I have nothing to hide but I do have my rights to protect, so let them harass me if they must but I'll have my lawyers there in no time flat (it is my profession after all...). Would I acquiesce? Sure, under the right circumstances - like if I was in a hurry - but that would be few and far between that I'm in THAT much of a hurry.

I agree with Ranger on this post as well. The officer obviously made a bad stop and it needed to be addressed with him. He has an in-car camera; he could be made to turn it on and video the infraction. The new ones actually continually run and when activated begin the recording 30 seconds prior to the activation. Pretty cool. You see a violation, the weaving (which requires more than one weave here in Colorado) and you activate the equipment and viola! The violation is on the recording.

If the officer is on a fishing expedition and asks for consent to search your vehicle, you certainly have a right to say no. He may try to play the verbal judo with you, but barring anything else, he has no right to search without that consent. Just say no. Simple. If he has something else (like the smell of marijuana coming from the vehicle, observations from someone else, etc.), then that will come out at that time. Otherwise, just say no.

What ever happened to the "Fruit of the Poison Tree" doctrine? Evidence and chattels seized through unlawful search are inadmissible and therefore shall be returned unless they are contraband.
Would that come into play in these cases?
For the timebeing cash is not contraband, correct?

If the search is declared to be unlawlful, then Fruit could be attached, depending upon circumstances. An argument of eventual discovery could be made and the evidence could remain in. If it is contraband, you ain't getting it back. Cash? I haven't seen a case like that in a long time, so I don't know the answer to that.

Like Kev, I used to contact the driver at the door, identify myself and my agency and tell them the reason for the stop. Then, I would ask if there was a reason for them doing what they did. e.g. speed, due to being late for an appointment, painful menstruation (yep, had that excuse), or whatever. Depending upon circumstances, the violation, the time/day of the event, I would decide to write a ticket, write a warning or give a verbal warning. Many times, I was looking for more severe issues, like DUI, wanted people, suspended or revoked drivers, or what have you.

[Gritty]

Oh sure. Every legitimate, hardworking US citizen carries at least $200k USD wrapped in shrink wrap, tin foil, and bags and hides it in his vehicle.

Does anyone here not do that?