"No Knock Raid"

[Byte Stryke]

There is a difference between bad cops and bad policies.

Policies, both official and unofficial, that the police follow are the result of political pressure. Those in charge make the rules and the police follow them. That is why different states and cities often have very different methods of policing.

I Completely concur.
Until Both the Spoken and unspoken policies are realigned to protect and defend the United States Constitution and the people, I will disgree with them, I will Vote against them and their proponents, I will speak out against them and all of those that would support them.

I Tire of all of the Gangs, to include the ones in Blue Uniforms.


and I Fucking swear to God, if I hear one more time "Well we found Guns!" regarding a search warrant...

[OneGuy67]

If I was in Law enforcement, movies like this, in threads like this would scare the hell out of me. As the Right moves more right and the Left stays very left. Law enforcement is running out of friends every time things like this happen. This is doubly bad when the budget is what it is. When the axe starts to drop and the LE budget comes up, there isn't gonna be anyone in their corner but Big Brother types and LEOs, not a very big voting block. I personally would rather put a leash on the SWAT teams than loose my pension.

Honestly, you watch a movie like this, then decide, how do we fix government spending, and truth be told LE budgets may make the list all the sudden.

Sad state for the guys on the ground, it would make for a hell of a place to work. "No one likes me because of speeding tickets and no one trusts me because of the mall ninjas on the force" That's not fun. Especially when you work in public service. I sure a firefighter/EMT/teacher has never had a thought like that.

Makes me wish we could do government agency interventions, "we like you guys, you do good stuff, but honestly, this SWAT shit is out of control. Fix it and it will help you."

If you are swayed by the mis-information in a liberal singer's song, then I'm glad you don't have any control on the purse string's in any government entity. Did you even listen to the words? "Victimless Crime"...really? Are illegal drugs and their use a victimless crime? Tell that to the tons of people who have had their identity's stolen, have had their homes burglarized, cars stolen, etc. to feed the drug habit of some deadbeats. Are they not victims? Don't they deserve some "justice"?

No knock search warrants for marijuana? Ain't happening. The KGB equals the DEA and you will disappear to Guatanamo Bay. Yeah...that's were we put all our people arrested for selling/using drugs. Man, Cuba must be just PACKED with our unwanted people!!

Big Mat, I am a cop and I can see this 'song' for what it is. Garbage.

I just got back from spending a few weeks in Haiti with the U.S. Army. Because of the military, I've been able to visit a bunch of countries who do not share our ideas about civil liberties and freedoms and I've seen first hand things I know would not happen here in this country. I witnessed first hand armed gangs walking the ghettos of Port-Au-Prince with rifles and only the U.N. Soldiers (from Argentina, currently) being the only opposing force. The Haitian police are afraid and undergunned to handle the problems (.38 revolvers on their hips). I've witnessed their form of criminal justice when a civilian killed a person with his vehicle and the suspect was sentenced and hung within hours of the accident. I've witnessed the extreme poverty there and the lack of government intervention to aid their countrymen. There is ONE paved road in Haiti. ONE! It goes from Port-Au-Prince all the way up the coastline and was paid for by the French. Sickening. Saddening.

I and my team were in a small hospital in St. Marc where we witnessed 2-4 deaths a night from Cholera, T.B. and end stage HIV/AIDS, not to mention the horrific injuries occuring due to their modes of transportation. The hospital does not 'waste' drugs on people dying; they allow them to expire. There is no hospice. The family members are required to care for their family members in the hospital; bed sheet changing, feeding, bed pan changing, etc. The family members sleep next to the beds in the crowded rooms or outside on benches or the ground. The money for this hospital did not come from the Haitian government; it came from the U.S., specifically from Bill Clinton's non-profit foundation.

You think our system of government is bad and getting worse, get involved. If you think you are being tyranized, go visit another country like Haiti, Jordan, Syria, Panama, Iraq, Kuwait (these are the latest countries I've had the pleasure of visiting thanks to Uncle Sam), Indonesia, Equador, Honduras, Brazil, etc., etc., and have a reminder of exactly HOW DAMN GOOD YOU HAVE IT HERE IN THE U.S.!!!

[Byte Stryke]

I Seriously get sick of the "Look how bad it is over there." Argument.
That's there, this is here. Their fathers and grandfathers didn't bleed on battlefields liberating this country and others.
Their forefathers didn't set a set of rules into place to defend their rights and liberties.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."""

A No-Knock at any address for anything short of a PRESENT hostage Life-Death situation is unreasonable.
the argument of "possibly armed" and Maybe dangerous is a load of shit and nothing but an excuse to further the ass-raping of the constitution.

Use common sense, too many people are dying and no one is held accountable in the name of "no knock warrants."

you want to compare here to there?


No more anchor babies
caught 2nd time as an illegal, execution in public.
eye for an eye, life for a life
Aldultery is punishable by public stoning
no welfare. work or die.
Thieves lose arms. Liars lose tongue.
All natural minerals and resources are property of the original inhabitants/Natives.


Ive been on every continent on the planet.

Here isnt the same as there for a reason.

[BigMat]

...

Solid rant, now breathe deep, count to ten and we can continue. To begin, thank you for serving, its appreciated, really.


I am going to do my best to keep above the line and stay polite, if you want an online debate, that's my rule, otherwise, this is a waste of our time and we can just go all caps-locked right now. as a preface- I respect cops and value their service. I love the US, and I don't stand for that to be doubted, my views may differ from yours, that in no way makes me less American or unappreciative of the blessings I was born into.


first- just because America is better than some fly bitten shit hole doesn't mean it doesn't stand for improvement. Are you married? If so go over to your wife, say "I have more money than a hobo. I'm done working cause I'm rich enough." If not, imagine it. See how far that ball flies. The argument is illogical. I don't care about Haiti for the sake of this discussion. They don't have the US Constitution, that's their deal, I do.


To begin with, I disagree with no knock raids for the most part for a simple reason. Back in the fire house we had a line "risk nothing for nothing, everything for everything." What it meant, if a house is burning, no one goes in, water it from the outside, BUT if someone is in it, life is at risk, and in you go, and you pull them out, risk life to save LIFE. A knock raid for drugs, evidence, warrants or what have you is just a waste of resouces and a dangerous game. There is no reason to cite cases as you have google to and I am sure you can find plenty of "wrong address" "innocent shot" "cop shot" situations due to raids gone wrong. I am not a cop, but I don't see why turning the water/power off, and waiting for the turd to come out or grabbing them on their way to their car/bike/bus/job, is less effective as a search method, and then, no one gets shot. If there is a hostage situation, active shooter, etc. go on in with my blessing.



Next- I have a proposition, one reason the US is better than those shit holes you mentioned is the rule of law. Lets play a thought game. From now on, there is a new law enforcement agency, federal level, no other LE ties. Their only role is to track, arrest and prosecute LEOs that broke laws, any of them, on the job or not. No more internal affairs. This agency can bust down cops doors with a warrent, the can tackle cops in the steets, on the job even and take them in. They can give cops speeding tickets or bust them for abusing their code lights. Their role is to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of the cops status as cops. They can fine them or lock them up. How would that sit with you? Remember, rule of law. If a SWAT team in Arizona, and their CO were suddenly facing a 1st degree murder rap for a raid gone wrong, do you really think the raids would continue? I have a feeling if the RULE OF LAW was applied, we wouldn't see raids anymore. Catch is, in the above paragraph, you can change the word "cop" out with "civilian" and its how it is now for the rest of us. I realize this line of reasoning may entail extra risk, I say that with this thought. My captain said to me once about working in a risky line of work "We don't get paid for what we do, we get paid for what we might have to do." For me that meant flying down the road and maybe running into a burning building/car, for a cop, this may mean drawing a weapon only when 100% sure you need it.


Finally, even if it is rare, and this stuff almost never happens, LEO abuse makes the news, and a raid gone wrong makes national news. If I ran a LE organization I would be really wary. I may not directly control the purse strings, but me and my 250 million friends sure do. Image matters, and it gets or costs votes, and votes are dollars.

[OneGuy67]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."""

Great quote. Now remember, the Constitution was created as a limit to the intusion of the FEDERAL government upon the citizenry. Last time I checked, all those cops you rant about aren't under the employ of the feds...

[bryjcom]

Great quote. Now remember, the Constitution was created as a limit to the intusion of the FEDERAL government upon the citizenry. Last time I checked, all those cops you rant about aren't under the employ of the feds...

Last I checked States have to obey the bill of rights. Remember that they are not allowed, anymore, to infringe on our god given rights.

Unless you want to advocate for the ability of states to infringe on our right to bear arms, then I would reconsider your thoughts on the above post.

[BigMat]

Great quote. Now remember, the Constitution was created as a limit to the intusion of the FEDERAL government upon the citizenry. Last time I checked, all those cops you rant about aren't under the employ of the feds...

...




I almost don't want to say it-

What did your department take an oath to? A McDonalds Menu?

Maybe yours didn't and I'm wrong and this can be explored further, but really, that's your argument? The Constitution doesn't apply to us. The slippery slope you just posed is, amazing.

Gun laws and the Constitution, here in Colorado, in Denver even. Its a good read about a court case, and our gun rights.

[Clint45]

Next- I have a proposition, one reason the US is better than those shit holes you mentioned is the rule of law. Lets play a thought game. From now on, there is a new law enforcement agency, federal level, no other LE ties. Their only role is to track, arrest and prosecute LEOs that broke laws, any of them, on the job or not. No more internal affairs. This agency can bust down cops doors with a warrent, the can tackle cops in the steets, on the job even and take them in. They can give cops speeding tickets or bust them for abusing their code lights. Their role is to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, regardless of the cops status as cops. They can fine them or lock them up. How would that sit with you? Remember, rule of law. If a SWAT team in Arizona, and their CO were suddenly facing a 1st degree murder rap for a raid gone wrong, do you really think the raids would continue? I have a feeling if the RULE OF LAW was applied, we wouldn't see raids anymore. Catch is, in the above paragraph, you can change the word "cop" out with "civilian" and its how it is now for the rest of us.

There are certain departments and agencies that are so corrupt a specialized federal task force of this sort would be the only way to deal with them. Fortunately, most departments do not require that level of oversight. Even here in Denver where everyone complains about how bad the cops are, police are arrested and prosecuted for crimes committed off duty. In some places that just doesn't happen, and if you try to report police misconduct there you become a target.

Unfortunately, no such agency will ever exist in this country. The police unions are too strong. Police would strike, protest, or get in firefights with federal agents if an agency such as that was ever implemented. Would never work here.

[Elhuero]

There are certain departments and agencies that are so corrupt a specialized federal task force of this sort would be the only way to deal with them. Fortunately, most departments do not require that level of oversight. Even here in Denver where everyone complains about how bad the cops are, police are arrested and prosecuted for crimes committed off duty. In some places that just doesn't happen, and if you try to report police misconduct there you become a target.

Unfortunately, no such agency will ever exist in this country. The police unions are too strong. Police would strike, protest, or get in firefights with federal agents if an agency such as that was ever implemented. Would never work here.

and thus the second amendment.

[TS12000]

Great quote. Now remember, the Constitution was created as a limit to the intusion of the FEDERAL government upon the citizenry. Last time I checked, all those cops you rant about aren't under the employ of the feds...

Wow, I really hope that was extremely poor wording on your part, I also hope you aren't a cop in any jurisdiction my loved ones or myself live, work, or travel through. Holy shit.