Dave Ramsey on Debt

[TFOGGER]

Taxes on business use to make up over 20% of all gov revenue in the 1960s. Today less than 7%. Most large business pay NO taxes. See GE... That leaves the small businessman paying all the taxes that those mega corporations do not any more. End their tax breaks. Then lower the rate on all business. Make it a level playing field.

Businesses do NOT pay taxes. Their customers do, as a pass through expense. If the market will not support higher prices (due to foreign competition), businesses have a few choices: Cut costs (labor is usually the greatest expense, so to reduce costs they either reduce the number of employees, reduce what they pay employees, or move production to areas with more favorable conditions, i.e. overseas), accept a lower profit margin (unlikely, and not fiscally responsible for continued survival in many cases), or change their business model to offer an inferior product for the same cost.

[nynco]

Since you like charts...the "rich" already pay more actual dollars into the kitty, and receive fewer benefits per capita (since they don't rely on social programs, social security, Medicare, etc.).

Given the proportions of earnings that those upper classes take in, the number should be even higher and it would be even higher if we had a flat tax on all forms of income.

The conservative mime about the middle class paying not enough taxes is a well articulated misleading statement (lie). They look at income tax alone. They don't include payrol taxes, (which there are several forms of this graph around) things like soc sec and medicare which the poor and the middle class pay a higher rate as a percentage of total earnings than the wealthy. Make over 100K and you pay NO soc sec. Make wages from cap gains, you pay neither. It looks like the wealthy pay so much but this is because they earn WAY more than we do. In fact since the 80s their income has tripled while the middle class has lost wages.

Easy way to explain why the rich pay so much......... 99 people in a room they all make 50K a year. Say they are all taxed at a flat rate of 25%. Then Bill gates walks in the room..... guess what Bill gates at the same flat rate still pays 99% of the taxes in the room. Heck you could tax the other 99 guys at 100% and Bill would still pay 99%.

Truth is if we stopped this stupid game of classifying investing different from a Drs working wages, we could fix our deficit and pay down the debt in no time. "But thats class warfare"........ you are correct and the middle class is losing. Its the other classes that started it.

[nynco]

Businesses do NOT pay taxes. Their customers do, as a pass through expense. If the market will not support higher prices (due to foreign competition), businesses have a few choices: Cut costs (labor is usually the greatest expense, so to reduce costs they either reduce the number of employees, reduce what they pay employees, or move production to areas with more favorable conditions, i.e. overseas), accept a lower profit margin (unlikely, and not fiscally responsible for continued survival in many cases), or change their business model to offer an inferior product for the same cost.

This is wrong....... when taxes go up, business has several choices, only one is pass the cost onto the consumer. Either cut profits, cut wages or raise prices. Or a 4th, invest profit back into the business to hide it from gov taxes. Which is what many did in the 1960s.

Wallstreet has seen the largest profits in history for the last 2 years while the rest of us got the shaft. When are you going to think outside your box? Because your box does not seem to have the answers?

As to moving production over seas, that should be taxed on any products that those traitor companies want to import. We should lower taxes here and tax the shit out of imports. Just like the founders of this nation did all the way till Reagan.

[nynco]

About the debt.......Page 4 of the official Standard & Poors “Research Update” – the actual report on what they did and why – published on August 5th as the explanation for why they believe Congress – and even the Gang of Twelve – will be unable to actually deal with the US debt crisis.

“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”

Even Wallstreet is turning against the GOPs cut only plan.

[tmckay2]

yes, lets give the government more money. they have been oh so responsible with the amount they are given thus far, why not give more? is that some kind of a joke?

we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. the government is far bigger and involved in far more than it was originally designed to be. and we are supposed to now give them more, after they have completely blown all the money we gave them? you can't be serious.

if politicians put a REAL plan, with SERIOUS intentions to cut the debt, and set taxes higher for one, two, or a few years, with it all laid out on how much of the debt they were going to reduce, and completely cut off certain worthless organizations that the government should never have been involved in to begin with, then i would be all for raising taxes. i want to do my part to help the country. giving an irrepsonsible government more money, to a poor, simple minded fool like myself, doesn't make a lot of sense. sometimes with addicts, you have to cut them off to make them realize their errors.

So close tax loop holes and make all investment income taxed the same as regular income.

Raise revenue.

Taxes currently are at the lowest level in over 50 years. Your own numbers show that no matter what we do, we can't cut our way out of this. So you have to raise revenue.

[tmckay2]

to rational folk, its not about "cuts only". raising taxes is fine if it actually made a difference. im not for giving anyone more money until they prove they can be responsible and are seriously changing their ways, and that means cuts. not little, stupid, tiny cuts. big, massive, back to the basic, back to the way it was designed to be, cuts. hurtful cuts. the kind of cuts that are painful but needed in the long run. the kind of cuts that get you kicked out of office but save the country. when that happens, they can jack up my taxes all they want if it will help this country.

About the debt.......Page 4 of the official Standard & Poors “Research Update” – the actual report on what they did and why – published on August 5th as the explanation for why they believe Congress – and even the Gang of Twelve – will be unable to actually deal with the US debt crisis.

“We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues, a position we believe Congress reinforced by passing the act.”

Even Wallstreet is turning against the GOPs cut only plan.

[sniper7]

This is wrong....... when taxes go up, business has several choices, only one is pass the cost onto the consumer. Either cut profits, cut wages or raise prices. Or a 4th, invest profit back into the business to hide it from gov taxes. Which is what many did in the 1960s.

Wallstreet has seen the largest profits in history for the last 2 years while the rest of us got the shaft. When are you going to think outside your box? Because your box does not seem to have the answers?

As to moving production over seas, that should be taxed on any products that those traitor companies want to import. We should lower taxes here and tax the shit out of imports. Just like the founders of this nation did all the way till Reagan.

biggest profits in history will always happen...why? because the dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to in your precious 60's you talk about. Inflation going through the roof doesn't help either. You are stuck inside your own box, suffocating on your own flatulents because your head is up your ass.

then in your last paragraph you say to lower taxes and tax imports. but yet a page ago you were all for raising taxes on the rich and businesses...so what is it? did we get through to you or are you just retarded still and I proved it yet again?

[CrufflerSteve]

biggest profits in history will always happen...why? because the dollar doesn't buy as much as it used to in your precious 60's you talk about. Inflation going through the roof doesn't help either. You are stuck inside your own box, suffocating on your own flatulents because your head is up your ass.

then in your last paragraph you say to lower taxes and tax imports. but yet a page ago you were all for raising taxes on the rich and businesses...so what is it? did we get through to you or are you just retarded still and I proved it yet again?

I believe he was talking about taxes on the rich vs. taxes on corporations. There are some serious loopholes in taxation. Hedge funds generally charge 2% of the total and 20% of profits. They have more freedom than regular mutual funds since they can do shorts and anything they damn well want. These are unregulated with virtually no reporting. They pay a 15% tax rate vs. the usual 35% rate for investments. They have grown to be a huge part of the market and the managers, some of whom take in billions, pay lower taxes than most of us. Such crap is a major argument for flat taxes. For fun read about John Paulson and ABACUS.

It is also fun to talk about those evil Democrats who want to take our money but they include people like Chuck Schumer, "The Senator for Wall Street". We all know of him for his anti-gun rhetoric but he has never seen a deregulation or tax break for the wealthy he didn't like.

Sniper7, perhaps you should study logical fallacies. Excessive use of ad hominem tends to be used to mask the poverty of the arguments someone is advancing. It might be fun but shows lack of mastery of the subject.

Steve

[nynco]

I think you read what you want to read. I have been consistent. I said that we need to tax all income the same. This will raise taxes on some people who have the system rigged so they don't pay. People who make billions on long term cap gains and those worthless trust fund babies from boulder will now have to pay taxes like everyone else. This will raise their rates. But I think this will generate so much revenue that we could lower taxes (only after we pay off our debt).

I also said that we need to end all corporate breaks. Only ones that should exist are for national interest reasons. Now we have billion dollar companies like GE who pay NO taxes while middle class small businessmen do. Its market manipulation and the mega companies buy our gov to get those breaks while small companies can't afford to.

There is no way we can cut our way out of this mess alone. We need to fix the rigged tax structure.

As to taxing imports.... hell yeah. The more we tax foreign companies, the lower we can put the tax rate for all business in America. For the first 100 years of this nation import tariffs paid for 90% of all gov. I rather like the idea of sticking it to other countries to pay for our gov. Sounds grand...

[sniper7]

I believe he was talking about taxes on the rich vs. taxes on corporations. There are some serious loopholes in taxation. Hedge funds generally charge 2% of the total and 20% of profits. They have more freedom than regular mutual funds since they can do shorts and anything they damn well want. These are unregulated with virtually no reporting. They pay a 15% tax rate vs. the usual 35% rate for investments. They have grown to be a huge part of the market and the managers, some of whom take in billions, pay lower taxes than most of us. Such crap is a major argument for flat taxes. For fun read about John Paulson and ABACUS.

It is also fun to talk about those evil Democrats who want to take our money but they include people like Chuck Schumer, "The Senator for Wall Street". We all know of him for his anti-gun rhetoric but he has never seen a deregulation or tax break for the wealthy he didn't like.

Sniper7, perhaps you should study logical fallacies. Excessive use of ad hominem tends to be used to mask the poverty of the arguments someone is advancing. It might be fun but shows lack of mastery of the subject.

Steve

maybe you should also think that just because someone does well with money, makes a lot of money or works hard for a lot of money doesn't mean they should get the living shit taxed out of them to benefit the social programs that lazy people rely on to make sure they don't have work for shit in their life. I am not saying these people have wonderful lives that are fulfilling, as I see it every week where I fly to, but what they are given for nothing is above and beyond what anyone should receive for doing not a damn thing.
The people who fought and died for this country didn't do so because they wanted to see the placed taxed to living shit again.

For those talking about taxing the "rich". Obama pretty well defines that as 200K a year and 250K as a couple. maybe that seems like a lot to most people now, but back in nynco's held so dearly 60's a million bucks also seemed like a lot of money, isn't as true today. in 20 years those tax laws will probably be in effect in one way shape or form.

As to your loopholes, please tell me you have paid YOUR taxes on everything you have sold face to face requiring paying such taxes, that you have paid taxes on the internet purchases you have made after colorado passed that law last year:

http://www.amnavigator.com/blog/2010...d-by-governor/

Just because you don't make the money that other people make doesn't mean they should get the shit taxed out of them. That isn't a logical fallacy, that is words from a guy who doesn't want to get the shit taxed out of him to pay for others laziness and lack of trying or some libtards wet dream about saving the planet or making the world safe for everyone or making sure everyone has a great comfortable life.