9 Mm Vs 45 Acp

[mcantar18c]

My dad taught me the three S's when I was a youngster.

I'd agree with you on the .50 BMG. A 12GA.... I don't know. After spending some time talking to LEOs who've had a lot of experience behind a 12GA I'm just going to maintain my "shoot them to the ground" plan. No matter what weapon is in my hands.

AMEN again
I'll admit, I don't have much experience with the 12ga stuff. I doubt something like birdshot would be reliable, but I've seen what 3" magnum loads do to various animals and it ain't pretty.

Ammo is cheap, life is not... anything worth shooting is worth shooting again.

[Atrain1]

Does anyone know anything about these rounds I like shooting them when I take out my gsg, and they seem pretty powerful for a 22LR, also any one with any GSG info would be great I love my gun but I have a few questions why we are on the smaller caliber thing I figured I would ask.

[Mick-Boy]

You'd probably get a better answer in the .22 rimfire section of the forum. But since we've already drifted well off topic maybe someone will come along and you out.

Mcantar - my 12ga targets have only been hinges or locks so far. Although shooting someone with a breaching round is on my bucket list (also killing someone with a tomahawk but that's for a whole different thread).

[Atrain1]

It is more about the gun, i will check into that, the bushing has a gap in the top and ridin on the bottom of the barrel. it fires fine and is as accurate as can be, just wanted to know if any one else has a gsg they can check.

[mcantar18c]

Here ya go Atrain. Now tell me, if a .30-06 to the bread basket didn't do the job in one hit, what makes you think a .45ACP will? I don't mean to continue pointless arguments but I just came across this video and had to share it.
Its all about how many rounds you get on target and where those rounds hit.

[Atrain1]

Here ya go Atrain. Now tell me, if a .30-06 to the bread basket didn't do the job in one hit, what makes you think a .45ACP will? I don't mean to continue pointless arguments but I just came across this video and had to share it.
Its all about how many rounds you get on target and where those rounds hit.

That is as far as you can get from what I was talking about, I would bet my bottom dollar when he got shot it took him down, but that is a very fast moving rifle round, sick video by the way thanks. My point was a 45 is a big slow moving bullet that has the knock down power that I am looking for, and IMO will do more damage than a 9mm because I would think that a 45 would have more kinetic energy that is just what makes more sence to me. And I know if you get shot in the arm it will not kill you, my mistake I should have put center mass, and even that might not kill, but I bet it would sure knock them down, giving you the time to either pump more rounds or take off. I shot a cell phone with a 9mm and the bullet got stopped by the thin sheet metal inside the phone, I also shot that same phone with a 45 and another like it and could not find the phone to see what happened.
Why the .45ACP is good:

~Big hole makes for deader bad guys.

Why the .45ACP sucks:

~Expensive
~Not a good package for CCW. Low-cap in a CCW package usually. This means your CCW and Main sidearm might be two different calibers. Very inefficient.

Why the 9mm is good:

~It's more prolific then Barny the purple dinosaur.
~NATO uses it
~Cheap to shoot
~High Velocity compared to .45ACP, speed kills
~Fits great in a ccw, a lot of rounds in a fairly compact size.

Why the 9mm is bad:

~Smaller hole
~Not enough energy


Alternative, .40S&W:

~ Almost the same size as a 9mm
~ use it for CCW or main sidearm round, same round double duty
~ More energy delivered then a 9mm
~ More velocity then a .45ACP
~ Almost as cheap to shoot as 9mm
~ More mass then the 9mm

It's the perfect solution to the .45 vs 9mm debate.

[Bailey Guns]

Atrain...let me give you a little hint. And keep in mind the context...we're talking about commonly carried, defensive handgun calibers.

Incapacitation has nothing to do with:

• "Knockdown power"
• "Stopping power"
• "Energy transfer"
• "Hydrostatic shock"

Plain and simple, it has to do with blood loss. Most people stop or fall down when they've been shot due to psychological reasons (ie: that's what supposed to happen when a person gets shot...they've been "trained" to react that way) more than physiological reasons.

None of the commonly carried defensive calibers has enough mass or energy to "knock down" an average sized person. They just don't. Know matter what gun magazines you've read or what you've heard.

Let me put it to you this way:

In June 1994, Nicole Brown-Simpson, former wife of star pro-football player O.J. Simpson, was murdered on the secluded front walkway of her condominium when someone cut her throat with a knife. How long do you think she remained conscious and able to perform willful activity? How much kinetic energy do you think was "transferred" from the knife blade to the soft tissues of her throat?

Now...go read the rest of the article HERE. And search around the FirearmsTactical.com website. It's full of great information about ballistics and wounding even though it's a bit dated.

The only real advantage a larger caliber will have is a larger frontal area that might be more likely to rupture something important and cause more bleeding. But any bullet has to penetrate far enough to get to the vital stuff.

Really, dude...you need to stop with the old cliches and gun-rag mythology.

[TFOGGER]

Fact: More people are killed by .22s than all other calibers combined. Bailey is absolutely right, shock or impact has little or nothing to do with lethal effect. A brief review of Newton's First Law of Motion will confirm this: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Therefore, a bullet that will take a full grown man and throw him across the room Hollywood style will also generate recoil that will knock the shooter on his ass. The only way a gunshot will immediately incapacitate someone is through massive blood loss, or by severing the spinal cord, or through conditioned response (shock).

[Atrain1]

Atrain...let me give you a little hint. And keep in mind the context...we're talking about commonly carried, defensive handgun calibers.

Incapacitation has nothing to do with:

• "Knockdown power"
• "Stopping power"
• "Energy transfer"
• "Hydrostatic shock"

Plain and simple, it has to do with blood loss. Most people stop or fall down when they've been shot due to psychological reasons (ie: that's what supposed to happen when a person gets shot...they've been "trained" to react that way) more than physiological reasons.

None of the commonly carried defensive calibers has enough mass or energy to "knock down" an average sized person. They just don't. Know matter what gun magazines you've read or what you've heard.


Let me put it to you this way:

In June 1994, Nicole Brown-Simpson, former wife of star pro-football player O.J. Simpson, was murdered on the secluded front walkway of her condominium when someone cut her throat with a knife. How long do you think she remained conscious and able to perform willful activity? How much kinetic energy do you think was "transferred" from the knife blade to the soft tissues of her throat?

Now...go read the rest of the article HERE. And search around the FirearmsTactical.com website. It's full of great information about ballistics and wounding even though it's a bit dated.

The only real advantage a larger caliber will have is a larger frontal area that might be more likely to rupture something important and cause more bleeding. But any bullet has to penetrate far enough to get to the vital stuff.

Really, dude...you need to stop with the old cliches and gun-rag mythology.

Trust me I dont read gun magazines, I can only name one, so let me ask you this if you had to make a chioce to get shot with a 9 or a 45 what would it be?

[sneakerd]

Arguing for arguments sake.