This guy stepped over the line...

[Irving]

Fuck that. Double homicide. He executed those kids. Regardless of their intentions in his home, he fucking murdered them.

I agree, but am also not saddened by the loss of those kids.

[Great-Kazoo]

Fuck that. Double homicide. He executed those kids. Regardless of their intentions in his home, he fucking murdered them.

Been holding off especially after reading the homeowners " Leaked" statements.
This guy executed 2 CRIMINALS. Not children, kids etc. They were criminals. The homeowner forgot Rule #1 when talking to LE
ATTORNEY, ATTORNEY, ATTORNEY
Unfortunately this is one case where the home owner who had a loaded gun is an IDIOT! A soon to be convicted without parole one i might add.

[Great-Kazoo]

I would also trust that you would not continue to shoot an intruder after the threat had ended. By his own admission, this guy did that twice, even grabbing another gun after his Mini-14 failed.

Which goes to show one of the basic tenants of self defense, Fight or FLIGHT. If he had time to acquire another firearm, He had time to FLEE.

[XC700116]

While I'm totally in the let's not go after the guy defending himself camp, I'm also in the "This guy is a psycho and murdered 2 kids" camp and I'd bet there was no burglary involved either. You don't shoot a home intruder and then not call the cops. His neighbor called the cops after he called them asking about a lawyer THE NEXT DAY. This guy is batshit crazy and most likely killed 2 kids and then decided to try and cover it up as self defense, and not doing a good job of it either.

Also who's going to shoot someone with a rifle in their house and then sit down in your chair and shoot another one, while "wearing" a pistol? I mean, there's not many times I don't have at least one that's easy to access, but I'm not wearing a Holster in the house AND carrying around one of the rifles either. Add into the equation that these 2 kids supposedly broke into his house through a window at Noon? It's just not adding up and I'd bet money that 90% of his statement on that criminal complaint that Newracer posted is BS.

Having grown up less than 50 miles from where this happened, VERY few people are the least bit intimidated by people shooting on their own property. Deer hunting is a religion there and it's not uncommon in the least for people to be shooting in their back yards and such. People in that area are in general extremely comfortable around guns and shooting, so while I take the one lady's statement to the press with a whole block of salt, not just a grain, (because a lot of times people like to amp up their statements for the news crews) I'm guessing people had a LOT of other reasons this guy bothered them than the fact that he shoots regularly on his property.

[Whistler]

Also who's going to shoot someone with a rifle in their house and then sit down in your chair and shoot another one, while "wearing" a pistol? I mean, there's not many times I don't have at least one that's easy to access, but I'm not wearing a Holster in the house AND carrying around one of the rifles either.

Don't think I'm alone in this crowd but I frequently (usually) wear a pistol at home and can reach more than one rifle from where I'm sitting at the moment. Not condemning or supporting the guy until all the facts are in though the age of the criminals is irrelevant IMO.

[BuffCyclist]

[/LEFT]
This is what I have issue with- I'm not going to risk my life to try to aim for a wounding shot, I'm going to quickly and as accurately as possible aim for center mass and shoot to eliminate the threat. If the threat ceases but isn't dead, yes, a wounded man will be transferred to police, if they do die from my defense, then so be it, but for an LE agency spokesman to say shoot them non-fatally and call us is just silly. If you shoot, you shouldn't be shooting to kill or wound, you should be shooting to stop the imminent threat.

I'm with Ronin on this one. You shoot to eliminate the threat, whether thats one shot to knock them down, or an entire mag to get them to stop coming at you, you shoot until they are no longer a threat. Making a precise shot to an extremity is difficult when your life is threatened, and if you are shooting them in an extremity to slow them down, then your life really isn't in danger and you shouldn't be shooting. You shoot when your life is threatened and you have no other option.

My CCW instructor drilled this into us. It is murder if they are weaponless, lying helpless and you continue to shoot them. Granted, he also said that if the perp is dead, there is no second side to the story, which it sounds like maybe this guy was trying to cover up.

[rockhound]

Fuck that. Double homicide. He executed those kids. Regardless of their intentions in his home, he fucking murdered them.

this^^^^


At this point I am not certain the kids broke in. Who has a tarp at the ready in the basement. I am thinking kidnapping and homicide......

[NMB2]

While it seems much more tame here, It got pretty heated on another board I'm on with people gloating about "if someone comes into my house they are leaving in a body bag"

Take this however you will but I have what you would consider a decent amount of trigger time, as I'm sure several others here do. Until you have been put into a situation that truly endangers your life, which this 64yr old man was not in, you will not understand the emotions that go through your head. Until you have had to take life you can't even fathom the effect that has on you. I had a hard time coping with things I did against people that were trying to kill me, and conspiring to kill me. I couldn't imagine trying to deal with killing two kids (yes age is relevant) who were unarmed.

This goes to show the lack of training, and discipline by gun owners. I don't blame the gun grabbers one bit for taking this and running with it, because it has been made clear to me by the responses over this throughout the internet that there are many other wack jobs like this that shouldn't own a firearm.

Simply killing someone because they are in your home is not acceptable, that is what we have a Judicial system for. You are not Judge Dredd. If you want your BOL and your COTUS, then you need to embrace all of it, this is not war, combat, or a 3rd world country. You get one shot to eliminate your threat, if you miss, or it doesn't kill them... that doesn't mean continue engaging them once they are no longer engaging you. The threat has been eliminated, if the outcome wasn't what you wanted, too fawking bad.

Aside from that, there is no doubt in my mind this was premeditated. Who starts randomly shooting at legs @ 1pm on Thanksgiving? It could of been anyone... family, friends, neighbor. This old man had a plan, and he executed it. What other foul play may be involved I had no doubt will come out... Innocent people don't drag bodies onto tarps, and into different rooms... wait 25hrs to call a neighbor for a lawyer and STILL didn't call the police.

[Ronin13]

Justin, I agree- I had to inform a guy in Afghanistan (a former Ranger and "mercenary"- his words- who was a contractor on our FOB) that he was wrong when he said "If someone breaks into your house, make sure you kill them, otherwise they'll sue you, and dead men tell no tales so the family can't come after you." I didn't say you get one shot, but I did say that you can't just empty your mag into the bastard who broke in, the police will deem this unnecessary and excessive beyond reasonable escalation of force. I've never killed anyone, and I hope I never have, but I have been in a few situations (combat, not in the civi world) where I've had a locked and loaded weapon trained on a potential threat, ready to put them down, finger ready to move to the trigger. I'm confident that *if* I'm ever in a situation where force is absolutely necessary, there will be no hesitation. But I always keep in the back of my mind, if the threat is eliminated and alive or surrenders further force is not needed and to call LE and a lawyer.
To quote a former CSPD officer and certified handgun instructor "Deadly force is only justified in the state of Colorado when someone unlawfully enters your home or residence you are occupying and you legitimately fear for you life or suspect they have or will commit a crime; but even in that case you cannot use an excessive amount of force against them, only proportionate force to stop the threat."

[ChadAmberg]

Just remember folks... Posting on a public forum saying things like "They'll get dragged out in a body bag no matter what" (made up example not directed towards any particular post) will come back to haunt you should you ever get involved in a self defense shooting where the bad guy gets killed and you're on the witness stand defending yourself, maybe not criminally but in civil court at least.