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Jer
10-03-2019, 12:56
Not just that but a massive amount of legislation and infrastructure restructuring away.

Autonomous vehicles and driver driven vehicles really can't co-exist on the same roads so you'll have to have something akin to HOV lanes on major highways for the autonomous vehicles or you have to completely ban driver driven vehicles (which would be politically difficult if not impossible). And that's just on rural highways and interstates. Autonomous vehicles in town are probably more like half a century away as the AI that can co-exist on city roads with other human drivers, pedestrians and etc is several orders of magnitude more complex than the AI that would pilot an autonomous vehicle down a highway full of other autonomous vehicles.

Full autonomous driving will be a thing in the next couple of years. Elon keeps saying "feature ready" for Tesla by the end of this year. I'm done discounting crazy shit he says because he seems to deliver more often than not. The next hurdle will be regulation which could be years to overcome.

Why is it you think they can't coexist on the same roadways? I don't see why separate lanes would be necessary. Even with the vintage autopilot systems we have data on they're safer than manually driving and only improving day after day so I don't see it as such a concern that we need to sandbox them from the people manually driving.

Justin
10-03-2019, 13:11
I think Level 5 autonomous driving is going to be a thing sooner than most would imagine. The technology will largely be ready to go within a few years, and they'll continue to refine how it handles edge cases after that.

Between the mainstreaming of the sensor suites needed to enable autonomous vehicles, the massive amounts of resources being dumped into it, and the advent of artificial intelligence systems that are capable of learning on their own and then integrating what they've learned with what other networked vehicles have learned, I see the development of the technology as happening in the medium-term future.

Weirdly, legislators and bureaucrats seem to be very much on board with fast-tracking this technology, and are laying the legal and regulatory groundwork for it more quickly than I've ever seen bureaucrats do anything, ever, in my entire life.

Irving
10-03-2019, 13:11
Because people manually driving next to autonomous vehicles will pay less attention.

brutal
10-03-2019, 13:25
Because people manually driving next to autonomous vehicles will pay less attention.


If only we had the technology to prevent people using their phones while manually driving.





https://i.imgur.com/YAGpXPd.png

Zundfolge
10-03-2019, 13:29
Why is it you think they can't coexist on the same roadways? I don't see why separate lanes would be necessary.

The same reason we don't (and likely never will) have flying cars.

Because America is run by lawyers and we constantly complain about how bad people drive ... there will be wrecks, there will be deaths and there will also be opportunistic politicians that want to regulate the crap out of it just because that's what they do with everything else.

Also one thing that makes Autonomous cars work is that they communicate with each other and plan their actions accordingly ... mixing in irrational humans and there's no way the computers will be able to second guess what the idiots in the other cars are going to do.

“Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.”
― George Carlin



Weirdly, legislators and bureaucrats seem to be very much on board with fast-tracking this technology, and are laying the legal and regulatory groundwork for it more quickly than I've ever seen bureaucrats do anything, ever, in my entire life.


Well hell, that's actually a good reason to be even more suspicious of the entire concept. My guess is they want autonomous cars for the same reason they want smart cars and mass transit ... to control the people.

Jer
10-03-2019, 13:47
This idea that we need to keep autonomous cars safe from non-autonomous cars is kind of stupid to be blunt.

Gman
10-03-2019, 14:06
Our roads are also not perfect and have many flaws, including while they're being repaired/repaved. Then there's weather. It's no surprise as to why most testing is happening in fair weather areas of the country.

Experts say we're decades away from fully-autonomous cars. Here's why. (https://www.businessinsider.com/self-driving-cars-fully-autonomous-vehicles-future-prediction-timeline-2019-8)

I see the vehicle manufacturers eventually pulling away from the concept. Currently, the drivers accept all responsibility for collisions. Car manufacturers are having difficulty even maintaining profitability in the current environment. When the manufacturers are providing systems to control the vehicles, there will be plenty of lawsuits, and even if the mfrs. are only found partially liable, where's the money in it?

Zundfolge
10-03-2019, 14:31
This idea that we need to keep autonomous cars safe from non-autonomous cars is kind of stupid to be blunt.

Of course that would be kind of stupid, but that's not at all what I said. Keeping humans safe from the difficulties of autonomous and non-autonomous cars interacting on the roads along with the related legal and liability issues make the introduction of autonomous cars onto the roads significantly more difficult than just addressing the technology issues.

Honestly we're more likely to see the mass adoption of Desktop Linux by the normies before we're going to see autonomous cars far and wide on American roads. I think too often tech savvy folk like yourself forget that you're sharing the planet with people that think HTML is an STD.

At best in the next decade we'll see autonomous semi trucks on the interstate ... but they'll still have a driver and the driver will still have to be behind the wheel the entire time and take the wheel in town.

ray1970
10-03-2019, 16:08
I recently spent eight days without having to operate a motor vehicle and I have to say it was quite relaxing.

While I doubt I?ll see a fully automated road system in my lifetime I would welcome it with open arms.

Irving
10-03-2019, 17:03
I recently spent eight days without having to operate a motor vehicle and I have to say it was quite relaxing.

While I doubt I?ll see a fully automated road system in my lifetime I would welcome it with open arms.

Agreed. When I have one job that's 3 hours each way, I could easily get all the desk work done in the 3 hours driving back. Instead, I drive for 7 hours out of my day, then am too tired to finish up when I get home.

Erni
10-13-2019, 18:25
After 140k miles I changed the sparkplugs on the Yaris. Iridium plugs are amazing. New gap is 0.044, measured the plugs and they were not over 0.045. Dang!
Still they were a bit sooty and the non iridium looked worn. NGK and Toy specify to chsngr them at 120k. Feels smoother at idle now. The rough idle made me think something may be off, but just wear.

00tec
10-13-2019, 18:40
After 140k miles I changed the sparkplugs on the Yaris. Iridium plugs are amazing. New gap is 0.044, measured the plugs and they were not over 0.045. Dang!
Still they were a bit sooty and the non iridium looked worn. NGK and Toy specify to chsngr them at 120k. Feels smoother at idle now. The rough idle made me think something may be off, but just wear.

Iridium plugs on my truck got changed yesterday. They come out of the box at .032. I had .034 to .040. No idea how long they were in the truck. Has 148k mi

Erni
10-13-2019, 18:47
Iridium plugs on my truck got changed yesterday. They come out of the box at .032. I had .034 to .040. No idea how long they were in the truck. Has 148k mi
My guess is 148k

Erni
10-13-2019, 18:48
Although with that range someone probably adjusted them.

ray1970
10-14-2019, 04:39
Probably about time to toss a set of plugs in my truck. Thanks for reminding me.

00tec
10-14-2019, 06:38
My guess is 148k

Maybe. I was tipped off to their condition on Friday morning when it was 12 degrees. The truck was making more boost than usual because of the cold and blowing out the spark.
I gapped the new ones to .028 to function better with the tune.

cstone
10-14-2019, 16:10
After 140k miles I changed the sparkplugs on the Yaris. Iridium plugs are amazing. New gap is 0.044, measured the plugs and they were not over 0.045. Dang!
Still they were a bit sooty and the non iridium looked worn. NGK and Toy specify to chsngr them at 120k. Feels smoother at idle now. The rough idle made me think something may be off, but just wear.

I put new plugs in my (now daughter's) 2008 Yaris at 100k. So easy to do just about anything to that car and the plugs are no exception. I don't know how long the car will last but regular maintenance should keep the little four banger going for a long, long time.

Great-Kazoo
10-14-2019, 16:19
I put new plugs in my (now daughter's) 2008 Yaris at 100k. So easy to do just about anything to that car and the plugs are no exception. I don't know how long the car will last but regular maintenance should keep the little four banger going for a long, long time.

you could fit that yaris in this unit
https://prescott.craigslist.org/cto/d/prescott-valley-1997-ford-250/6979566546.html



or this one with the factory exterior grab rails

https://prescott.craigslist.org/cto/d/chino-valley-f-power-stroke/6982452794.html

MrPrena
10-14-2019, 16:40
If you can change spark plugs for f10 M5 or E9x M3, you can basically change spark plugs of ~ 99% vehicles out there.
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f10-m5-lim_201608/repair-manuals/12-engine-electrical-system/12-12-ignition-lead-spark-plugs/1VnZ93ygEq


S65 engine has been so far the most difficult one to change.

Erni
10-14-2019, 17:39
I put new plugs in my (now daughter's) 2008 Yaris at 100k. So easy to do just about anything to that car and the plugs are no exception. I don't know how long the car will last but regular maintenance should keep the little four banger going for a long, long time.

Yeah, I basically tried to pull one plug to get the condition and number, and then just kept going.

Some dude on Yaris forum got it to 250k. I am torn if I keep it past next year. It drives fine, but commute is getting longer and I am getting older and want a bit more comfort.

ChickNorris
10-19-2019, 06:28
I. Want. This.

ChickNorris
10-19-2019, 06:33
Also saw this adorable Delica.

Gman
10-19-2019, 11:17
Also saw this adorable Delica.

Saw one in the Ranch a number of months ago. They seem to be popular in Canada when I was up there last year. I was surprised how narrow they were.

Gman
10-19-2019, 11:19
I. Want. This.

442?

crays
10-19-2019, 11:21
Cutlass?

Sent from somewhere...

Irving
10-26-2019, 13:10
New potential military vehicle (for France) from Volvo.
This thing sounds cool, but what got my attention is the mention of an electric trailer at the end of the article. I knew that was a solid idea.

https://sofrep.com/126334/volvos-crab-walking-diesel-hybrid-scarabee-may-become-frances-humvee/

ChickNorris
10-26-2019, 13:38
I. Want. This.


442?


Cutlass?

Sent from somewhere...

Probably a 71


When I first saw it I thought it was a 70 Buick GSX.

Gman
11-22-2019, 12:27
Tesla’s broken-window Cybertruck debut leaves the internet divided (https://finance.yahoo.com/m/20740096-42c1-3efd-b32f-795f9c557fec/tesla-unveils-its-cybertruck%3A.html)

0-60 in 2.9 seconds. Uh...this thing is supposed to be a truck, right? Looks like the designer was some 5th grader with a ruler.


The internet is going to hang onto this Tesla moment for a while. The much anticipated, all-electric “Cybertruck” rolled across the stage late on Thursday to a cheering crowd. And while the angular, cold-rolled steel vehicle looked like it could pretty much survive anything, a steel ball managed to crack the windows during a demonstration to prove they were indeed shatterproof.

http://youtu.be/d6UpHjJvnn0

Irving
11-22-2019, 12:38
[QUOTE=Gman;2246089]
Uh...this thing is supposed to be a truck, right?

Is this comment about the 0-60 time, or the shape?

ray1970
11-22-2019, 12:51
Ha. The little comment about Tesla bringing back the Delorean is funny.

The lack of a diesel option will probably limit its market. Just saying.

Gman
11-22-2019, 13:02
[QUOTE=Gman;2246089]
Uh...this thing is supposed to be a truck, right?

Is this comment about the 0-60 time, or the shape?
All of the above. Fast and high center of gravity with 4-wheel independent suspension leads to some fun unintentional maneuvering. 0-60 in less than 3 seconds is just not really important as to why someone would need a truck. Rear visibility and headroom must suck with that roof line.

The design looks like a F-117 from the '80s. The truck looks like what someone in the '80s thought the future would look like (but never did). I liked one of the comments I read that said it looks like a set piece from a Robocop movie with a $1500 budget.

Being a truck owner, one of the things that truck owners seem to like to do is customize their trucks with a nearly endless number of aftermarket mods. The aftermarket will likely be very limited on these things due to their low production numbers.

Irving
11-22-2019, 13:09
Being fast just comes with the territory of electric vehicles. I'm pretty sure no one has ever said, nor will ever say, "This truck would be better if it were slower." If it can still tow and haul like it's supposed to, it doesn't matter at all if it's also fast. Just seems like you're going out of your way to nitpick.

I'm not a super fan boi about it, but if it still holds stuff in the bed, then the design doesn't matter much either. A Uhaul is more truck than what most people drive and has zero rear visibility. With all the cameras on Teslas, I'm sure rear visibility will hardly be an issue. Is there even an argument that independent suspension handles worse than a solid axle?

buffalobo
11-22-2019, 13:16
Looks like a Prius would haul a sheet of plywood just as well.

Irving
11-22-2019, 13:23
I went and looked for more pictures. This article has some showing the bed open, and one with a kind of topper. Anyway, I don't like the design. For no other reason than that it does not appeal to me aesthetically. I really have to wonder if that tear drop shape wasn't chosen for aerodynamics though.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a29877700/tesla-cybertruck-pickup-debut-photos-specs/

Gman
11-22-2019, 13:40
You gotta' get on-board with the nomenclature. It's not a "bed", it's a "vault".

As to aero, having the wind blowing under the truck won't help and if you're towing a box trailer, does it really matter?

At least there are 4 Supercharging stations at the Best Western Plus Canyonlands in Moab, UT.

MrPrena
11-22-2019, 14:02
Stealth truck.

Gman
11-22-2019, 14:04
Stealth truck.

1980's stealth truck, as in F-117 (which came to mind when I saw the shape). Current stealth aircraft don't look like that.
http://aviationintel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/F-117large.jpg
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.military-today.com%2Faircraft%2Ff22_raptor_l4.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic5.businessinsider.com%2Fimag e%2F586e6d6fee14b62b008b6add-1190-625%2Fone-our-adversaries-should-fear-us-air-force-general-describes-how-the-f-35-is-above-and-beyond-the-competition.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Irving
11-22-2019, 14:16
We didn't know about soft curves in the 1980's.

Gman
11-22-2019, 14:19
We didn't know about soft curves in the 1980's.
Apparently Elon Musk still doesn't know. [Coffee]

ray1970
11-22-2019, 14:23
We didn't know about soft curves in the 1980's.

Oh, I knew all about soft curves in the 80?s.

Nothing vehicle related though.

Irving
11-22-2019, 14:46
Oh, I knew all about soft curves in the 80?s.

Nothing vehicle related though.

I wasn't going to bring up high school wrestling...


I think we can all agree that we'd rather have the Tesla than a Pontiac Aztek.

Gman
11-22-2019, 14:59
I wasn't going to bring up high school wrestling...


I think we can all agree that we'd rather have the Tesla than a Pontiac Aztek.

One of the comments I read this morning said that the Cybertruck looked like a mashup of the Delorean and the Aztek.

ChickNorris
11-22-2019, 15:18
Who remembers these?

Was at a car show this fall.

fright88
11-22-2019, 15:23
JMHO Cybertruck is ugly as sin but it is kind of funny that Elon is claiming the skin can stop a 9mm bullet.

ChickNorris
11-22-2019, 15:29
For those of you scratching your head, it's an Aston Martin Lagonda

ChickNorris
11-22-2019, 15:33
Ripe for 'Your mama is so ugly...' jokes

Irving
11-22-2019, 15:36
Having that car in Aston Martin's lineage is like finding out your great grandma was a Nazi.


It looks like a BMW M1 humped an '87 Oldsmobile Tornado and then bounced out of town.

ChickNorris
11-22-2019, 15:38
Having that car in Aston Martin's lineage is like finding out your great grandma was a Nazi.


Perfect.

Jer
11-22-2019, 16:54
That damn Cybertruck is gross. I drew that exact truck when I was seven so I need to dig back through my drawings to see if Tesla owes me some royalties as it was my original design in the 80's. I kept waiting for them to bring out the real Cybertruck to push that rolling turd off of the stage. Good god that thing is hideous. I feel like Tesla felt bad for those who loved the Pontiac Aztek and DeLorean as they felt they were under-served after those vehicles were abandoned and felt they could corner that market.

It's just tragic that the specs are so amazing because it's a straight butter face. All of my farmer buddies from the Midwest starting blowing me up about how interested they were in buying one after riding in my Model S but they all said that there was no way they could be seen by their neighbors and around town in the monstrosity.

Spaceballs El Camino.

newracer
11-22-2019, 17:00
He designed it after being on Joe Rogan's podcast.

brutal
11-22-2019, 17:05
Having that car in Aston Martin's lineage is like finding out your great grandma was a Nazi.


It looks like a BMW M1 humped an '87 Oldsmobile Tornado and then bounced out of town.

Fun fact. I sat in a BMW M1 in a showroom in Germany once.

No, they would not let me take it for a test drive.

brutal
11-22-2019, 17:09
That damn Cybertruck is gross. I drew that exact truck when I was seven so I need to dig back through my drawings to see if Tesla owes me some royalties as it was my original design in the 80's. I kept waiting for them to bring out the real Cybertruck to push that rolling turd off of the stage. Good god that thing is hideous. I feel like Tesla felt bad for those who loved the Pontiac Aztek and DeLorean as they felt they were under-served after those vehicles were abandoned and felt they could corner that market.

It's just tragic that the specs are so amazing because it's a straight butter face. All of my farmer buddies from the Midwest starting blowing me up about how interested they were in buying one after riding in my Model S but they all said that there was no way they could be seen by their neighbors and around town in the monstrosity.

Spaceballs El Camino.

That thing isn't going to be hauling my 5th Wheel any time soon (or ever) I expect.

Gman
11-22-2019, 18:02
Kelley Blue Book publisher on Tesla CyberTruck: 'People are going to think about this truck' (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/kelley-blue-book-tesla-cyber-truck-204856719.html)


The executive publisher of the famed Kelley Blue Book says Elon Musk’s new Tesla CyberTruck is a risk worth taking.

“He's doing something totally unconventional,” Karl Brauer told Yahoo Finance’s YFi AM on Friday. “And, at this point ... there's no downside to that. He's going to cause a stir, and people are going to think about this truck.”

At an event in Los Angeles on Thursday, Musk unveiled the unconventional truck — and the truck’s “armor glass” notoriously smashed during a demonstration.

Brauer recognizes that selling this new SUV won’t necessarily be easy for Musk. That’s because the target consumer may not be willing to trade in their vehicle for something more efficient made by Tesla (TSLA).

“Truck buyers are the most traditional buyers out there. They're the most loyal buyers out there. So for him to be able to come in with something this unconventional and pull traditional truck buyers out of their comfort zone, probably a big challenge.”

Having an electric vehicle could also be tricky for people who like to spend time off-roading. Brauer believes this SUV may be a better option for people in a more urban environment.

“The only thing worse then running out of energy in an electric vehicle is running out of energy in the middle of nowhere. If you're going to drive around the city, and you're going to haul a bunch of things, and you want to not burn a lot of fuel and put out a lot of emissions, something like the CyberTruck would be great.”

A quote from Karl Brauer in the video at the link above: "Uh....I was waiting for the actual truck to come out, not the sketch version of the truck."

ray1970
11-22-2019, 18:24
I?m thinking the unaerodynamic design is going to totally screw the gas mileage.

FoxtArt
11-22-2019, 20:08
We need to start a pool on the # of days elapsed from the first delivery before some Telsa fan-boi gets plugged with a 9mm demonstrating his "APC" to his buddies.

I'm betting 4.

ETA: Also if you guys didn't notice, the hammer was hilarious. Compare the white door hit with the Tesla hit, the guy was holding back as much as he could, probably 1/3 the force of the first.

I'd bet a 4.7mm BB with five pumps would punch through it.

FoxtArt
11-22-2019, 20:13
And to stack on my observation, you'll also note it flexed with the hammer hit.

That means it is *not* hardened in any way shape or form. (Hardened would have cracked, not flexed). It doesn't matter what "alloy" it is, that's no more bullet proof than a street sign.

They claim it has no frame, that the body is the frame. Beyond the other associated issues, that shit will be totaled with every f'n fender bender if it bent that much (even temporarily) over that little of kinetic force, which of course made the crowd excited, much as the announcement it has seats, and a cup-holder, and wheels. (Common cars/trucks weigh up to 6500 lbs vs his 5 lbs sledge, and are going much faster than his hammer swing even in a parking lot)

Wish the RIVIAN front end looked normal. Maybe the electric ford has hopes :/

eddiememphis
11-22-2019, 20:55
We need to start a pool on the # of days elapsed from the first delivery before some Telsa fan-boi gets plugged with a 9mm demonstrating his "APC" to his buddies.

I'm betting 4.


I'll take the over.

MrPrena
11-22-2019, 22:12
79468

iego
11-22-2019, 22:17
They need to do several stock splits so the long haired hippies can buy in.

$330 is like a months income.

-John

Duman
11-28-2019, 18:11
Having that car in Aston Martin's lineage is like finding out your great grandma was a Nazi.


It looks like a BMW M1 humped an '87 Oldsmobile Tornado and then bounced out of town.

THAT is hilarious! Where do you come up with this stuff?

Irving
11-28-2019, 18:31
It's all in here buddy. (Points to head)

Gman
12-04-2019, 13:07
MotorTrend: The Tesla Cybertruck Has Functionality Problems (https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-functionality-problems)
Subhead: Take the polarizing design at face value, and it has trouble doing basic truck things

Everyone has thoughts on the way Tesla's radical Cybertruck looks, but design is purely subjective (and everyone's already dunked on the Cybertruck anyway), so I'm going to focus instead on functionality, where I have real concerns.

First, outward visibility. The rear window is tiny and most of the time it'll be completely covered by a roll-up door that apparently makes a huge aerodynamic (read: range) difference. Tesla's solution is a rear camera. I've tried those on many vehicles, and most are awful. Rarely are the resolution, the angle, or the field of vision anything like a normal mirror, and there's usually little to no way to adjust them. What's more, they play a trick on your eye, forcing you to reorient your point of view from inside the vehicle to a camera mounted on the back of it, then back again. Beyond that, the big sail panels on the bed and pinched rear door windows will create massive over-the-shoulder blind spots, full stop.

Those sail panels are my real gripe. This thing has Gen-I Ridgeline syndrome. The sail panels are impossible to reach over, so getting anything in or out of the bed means climbing in the back and walking up to the front?and forget about stepping on the tire and climbing over. Whether tools or toys, that's a massive pain in the ass. Tesla says the sail panels are a key part of the truck's strength, but other unibody trucks both past and present have gotten along fine without them, casting doubt on that rationale.

Those panels also means there will be far fewer accessories for work or play because you can't mount them to the bed rails. Outfitters are no doubt thinking about accessories for the Cybertruck, but a lot of them are low-volume companies that aren't going to spend big on prototyping and developing parts until there are enough Cybertrucks sold to make a solid business case.

You can pretty much forget about the commercial market, though, and that's a bad idea. A huge portion of truck sales are to fleets and working professionals like contractors, plumbers, welders, and more. Not being able to mount lumber racks to the bed rails is bad enough, but making the bed an integral part of the body means it can't be removed and replaced with boxes, a flatbed, or other equipment. Strict emissions regulations and high fuel costs in Tesla's home market of California could make the Cybertruck attractive to a lot of people who use their trucks for work, but not in its present configuration.

On the plus side, the bed does create a nice, rectangular box with no intrusive wheelwell humps. The bed floor, though, will need reworking before it goes into production. Look at the bed of any pickup truck made in the last half century, and you'll see the floor is wavy, not smooth like the Cybertruck's. It's great that you can lay a sheet of plywood or sheetrock flat in the bed of a Cybertruck, but have you ever tried to pick one up when it's lying flat on a smooth concrete floor? Those little grooves milled into the Cybertruck's bed floor won't offer any help getting your fingers under anything heavy, and between the sail panels and the lack of wheelwell humps, there's no way to go at it except from the tailgate.

All of this doesn't even address the fact the truck, as currently designed, runs afoul of many federal vehicle regulations. Even if it's heavy enough to get Class 3 certification (10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight, not great for EV range) and dodge some crash test rules, it'll still need door mirrors and a complete rework of the taillights. Notice how every other pickup truck (and even work vans) mounts its tail lights to the bed, not the tailgate? That's not a trend, that's a law. Tesla's solution in adding a second set of lights that's visible when the tailgate is open is clever, but it's still illegal (this is why the barn doors on the back of a Mini Clubman have cutouts for the fixed taillights).

On all accounts, this fails Truck 101. It matters because the vast majority of truck buyers in the F-150 segment almost never tow and rarely do any serious off-roading. Hauling is the one thing they actually use their trucks for semi-regularly (besides commuting), and the Cybertruck fails that basic need.

In short, you can tell this truck was designed by people who've never made one before and only worried about the towing and performance numbers and not the actual use cases. Yes, the Cybertruck is quicker and can tow and haul more than an F-150 on paper, but when it comes time to do truck stuff, you're still better off with the Ford.

O2HeN2
12-04-2019, 14:21
>> This thing has Gen-I Ridgeline syndrome.

Disn'n my Ridgeline. The best "Trar" I've ever owned!

O2

https://rpmcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/09Ridgeline002.jpg

Gman
12-04-2019, 15:47
<Crocodile Dundee Voice>
That's not a truck.
</Crocodile Dundee Voice>

ray1970
12-04-2019, 16:58
Disn'n my Ridgeline. The best "Trar" I've ever owned!


Come on. Everyone knows the El Camino rules in the world of trucks that aren?t trucks.

Jer
12-04-2019, 17:16
Come on. Everyone knows the El Camino rules in the world of trucks that aren?t trucks.

The Subaru Brat would like to have a chat with you.

ray1970
12-04-2019, 17:19
The Subaru Brat would like to have a chat with you.

Ha. Forgot about that one. Can we call it a tie?

Although the Brat didn?t come with a V-8.

Jer
12-04-2019, 17:27
Ha. Forgot about that one. Can we call it a tie?

Although the Brat didn?t come with a V-8.

The El Camino didn't come with standard AWD or rear facing seats with jet-fighter handles for "da chirrens" to have super fun imagination time while being recklessly endangered by their adult supervisors of driving age.

Check mate.

ray1970
12-04-2019, 17:29
Ugh. You win.

TFOGGER
12-04-2019, 17:39
[Pop]...

Jer
12-04-2019, 17:53
Ugh. You win.

*Subaru Brat takes a bow followed by a victory lap with some random kids in the back pretending to shoot following traffic with sidewinder missiles*

brutal
12-04-2019, 17:55
...

LOL

buffalobo
12-04-2019, 18:03
Ranchero

ChickNorris
12-04-2019, 18:41
Ranchero

This

Gman
12-04-2019, 19:05
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fst.motortrend.com%2Fuploads%2Fsite s%2F5%2F2011%2F07%2Fholden-HSV-Maloo-R8-SV-Black-Edition-Front.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Would have been cool to have something like the Holden Maloo here in the US.

You sure don't see those old Brats on the road anymore. Did they all rust into oblivion?

ray1970
12-04-2019, 19:05
Ranchero

Eh. That?s just the Ford El Camino. Chrysler/Dodge was smart enough not to go there for a while. I don?t think they had an El Camino until the 1980?s when the rampage came out. If it had the rear mounted gunner seats it might have beat out the Brat.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191205/a6ce159b007728091dd18d15aed89fd7.jpg

ChickNorris
12-04-2019, 20:19
..

SideShow Bob
12-04-2019, 20:47
Meh..... The Cadillac flower cars were the coolest......79568

79569

Martinjmpr
12-05-2019, 09:16
The El Camino didn't come with standard AWD or rear facing seats with jet-fighter handles for "da chirrens" to have super fun imagination time while being recklessly endangered by their adult supervisors of driving age.

Check mate.

The only reason the BRAT had those was so it could be imported as a "passenger vehicle" and avoid the "chicken tax" on imported trucks.

BTW are we forgetting the Baja? Basically a crew-cab BRAT:

79570

Funny thing about the Baja is that they couldn't GIVE them away when they were new and now they have a real cult following.

Martinjmpr
12-05-2019, 09:20
If someone really wants to make a usable pickup with an electric motor they should make a Plug In Hybrid with a gasoline or diesel generator motor under the hood.

Plug it in to your home charger and when you are driving to work or around town, it runs on the electric motor only.

But if you are on a long trip somewhere, the generator kicks on to charge the batteries.

And as a plus, the generator can be used when you are camping in the back country both to charge the batteries of the truck and to run other electrical stuff. Win-win.

I would totally go for something like that.

Gman
12-05-2019, 11:38
The Baja looks like the love child of a Honda Ridgeline and a Pontiac Aztek.

Never really liked any unibody "truck", including the Ford Explorer Sport Trac.

Gman
12-05-2019, 11:42
If someone really wants to make a usable pickup with an electric motor they should make a Plug In Hybrid with a gasoline or diesel generator motor under the hood.

Plug it in to your home charger and when you are driving to work or around town, it runs on the electric motor only.

But if you are on a long trip somewhere, the generator kicks on to charge the batteries.

And as a plus, the generator can be used when you are camping in the back country both to charge the batteries of the truck and to run other electrical stuff. Win-win.

I would totally go for something like that.
So basically a truck with a drive train similar to the Chevy Volt. That always made a ton of sense to me since it doesn't have hard range limitations.

Justin
12-05-2019, 12:01
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fst.motortrend.com%2Fuploads%2Fsite s%2F5%2F2011%2F07%2Fholden-HSV-Maloo-R8-SV-Black-Edition-Front.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Would have been cool to have something like the Holden Maloo here in the US.

You sure don't see those old Brats on the road anymore. Did they all rust into oblivion?

Evidently build quality on The Brats was not that great.


youtube.com/watch?v=Ubdeoo_7FeQ

Irving
12-05-2019, 12:03
I'm surprised no one has said that a Ford Lightning or Ford Raptor aren't really trucks. I doubt anyone was using a Lightning as a work truck. At least the Raptor is awesome and goes off-road.

Gman
12-05-2019, 12:08
I remember the Brats with toe holds on the side to make it easier to climb in from the side.

ETA: Like this:
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdealeraccelerate-all.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fmce%2Fimages%2F6%2F9%2F6%2F 696%2F4722256233c4a_hd_1983-subaru-brat.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Gman
12-05-2019, 12:11
I'm surprised no one has said that a Ford Lightning or Ford Raptor aren't really trucks. I doubt anyone was using a Lightning as a work truck. At least the Raptor is awesome and goes off-road.
Tricked out trucks are still trucks. You could put the GMC Syclone in that mix. ETA: Dodge SRT-10

The Chevy SSR was....just wrong IMO.

Martinjmpr
12-05-2019, 12:20
So basically a truck with a drive train similar to the Chevy Volt. That always made a ton of sense to me since it doesn't have hard range limitations.

Yup. To me it makes a lot more sense than an all-electric truck. An all-electric truck is a city-only vehicle. Which is fine, for businesses, etc, who can park the truck at a charging station each night.

But IMO, touting all electric vehicles for things like off-roading or trailer towing is bound to fail because the limitation on battery power and charging time are absolute deal breakers and unless there is some revolutionary breakthrough in battery technology, there is no future in it.

By contrast, PHEV trucks are practical and would appeal to a lot of people (including me.) It would be even better if the generator motor was not attached to the truck at all (basically working like a diesel/electric locomotive) where the only function of the gasoline or diesel engine is to charge the batteries. This eliminates the need for a transmission and in theory, at least, means you can make a generator that can be swapped out fairly easily.

For example, you could have a small generator for "home" use. The purpose of that would be to start up and charge the batteries if, let's say, you got stuck in a traffic jam or it was really cold or hot and the heater or AC was consuming a lot of power.

Then, when you get ready to drive the Family Truckster to that Yellowstone vacation, you put in the 'big' generator that produces a LOT of power to charge the batteries. Likely the engine will run constantly as you are pulling your 4,000lb travel trailer up a high pass. Obviously it would require a decent sized fuel tank but since there is no transmission, there should be room for one, wouldn't you think?

Then when you get to the campsite, if you are fortunate to have a 50a power connection, you could figure a way to use that to charge up the truck for day trips (and would still have the gasoline engine as a generator in case the electric charge wasn't enough to keep the truck rolling.)

Or, if you were boondocking (camping with no electric hookups) you could even plug the trailer into the generator on the truck to power the AC or whatever you needed - the only limitation then would be how much fuel you have (and the "generator engine" under the hood would likely be much quieter than even a 'quiet generator' meaning that, if needed, you could likely run it all night as it would be no louder than an idling vehicle engine.)

I can't think of any reason why this WOULDN'T work.

Irving
12-05-2019, 12:30
Because batteries can only take so much charge, so fast. This is alleviated a bit with using super capacitors. Also, batteries take up a lot of space, so transmission or not, there may not be room for both batteries and a generator. There may very be a balance for all systems to work well together, but I don't know enough to tell. With super caps that charge almost instantly (compared to a battery anyway), all the sudden regenerative breaking and solar panels are far more effective to have in place.

Jer
12-05-2019, 12:41
Yup. To me it makes a lot more sense than an all-electric truck. An all-electric truck is a city-only vehicle. Which is fine, for businesses, etc, who can park the truck at a charging station each night.

But IMO, touting all electric vehicles for things like off-roading or trailer towing is bound to fail because the limitation on battery power and charging time are absolute deal breakers and unless there is some revolutionary breakthrough in battery technology, there is no future in it.

By contrast, PHEV trucks are practical and would appeal to a lot of people (including me.) It would be even better if the generator motor was not attached to the truck at all (basically working like a diesel/electric locomotive) where the only function of the gasoline or diesel engine is to charge the batteries. This eliminates the need for a transmission and in theory, at least, means you can make a generator that can be swapped out fairly easily.

For example, you could have a small generator for "home" use. The purpose of that would be to start up and charge the batteries if, let's say, you got stuck in a traffic jam or it was really cold or hot and the heater or AC was consuming a lot of power.

Then, when you get ready to drive the Family Truckster to that Yellowstone vacation, you put in the 'big' generator that produces a LOT of power to charge the batteries. Likely the engine will run constantly as you are pulling your 4,000lb travel trailer up a high pass. Obviously it would require a decent sized fuel tank but since there is no transmission, there should be room for one, wouldn't you think?

Then when you get to the campsite, if you are fortunate to have a 50a power connection, you could figure a way to use that to charge up the truck for day trips (and would still have the gasoline engine as a generator in case the electric charge wasn't enough to keep the truck rolling.)

Or, if you were boondocking (camping with no electric hookups) you could even plug the trailer into the generator on the truck to power the AC or whatever you needed - the only limitation then would be how much fuel you have (and the "generator engine" under the hood would likely be much quieter than even a 'quiet generator' meaning that, if needed, you could likely run it all night as it would be no louder than an idling vehicle engine.)

I can't think of any reason why this WOULDN'T work.

Actually, there's a Supercharger on S Canyon Street in West Yellowstone now and lots of 50A service dotting the area as well. We're going to be taking a trip up in a car that "only" gets 250 miles of rated range so I can imagine this would be much easier in a pickup rated at twice that that offers even faster charging rates than our "aging" 5-year-old Model S.

Even if that pick-up's rated range is dropped by half (just guessing since we have no real-world numbers to go off of at this time) it would still be totally doable. Granted you'd have to plan slightly differently but there would also be a lot of pros that come with that list of cons. There's also going to be an option of solar panels when you're out in the sticks since they continue improving.

I realize you were randomly painting a scenario where this wouldn't be feasible but I'm just trying to bring light to the fact that these random scenarios are becoming increasingly viable and at a pretty rapid rate too.

Irving
12-09-2019, 22:05
Study about mixing gasoline and Diesel.

https://news.wisc.edu/gasoline-diesel-cocktail-a-potent-recipe-for-cleaner-more-efficient-engines/

TFOGGER
12-09-2019, 22:13
Study about mixing gasoline and Diesel.

https://news.wisc.edu/gasoline-diesel-cocktail-a-potent-recipe-for-cleaner-more-efficient-engines/

Interesting. I wonder how this technology might work in a plug in hybrid type truck...

ray1970
12-09-2019, 22:46
Mixing gas and diesel isn?t anything new. Owners of diesel Mercedes have been filling them up with gasoline for decades.

Great-Kazoo
12-10-2019, 00:11
Mixing gas and diesel isn?t anything new. Owners of diesel Mercedes have been filling them up with gasoline for decades.

We'd cut the tanks diesel with gas, to keep it thin in winter. Keep them rigs from jelling up come winter time.

brutal
12-10-2019, 00:16
Meanwhile, Audi figured out how to produce Diesel from wind and water.

https://thisblowsmymind.com/audi-have-created-diesel-fuel-from-water-and-co2-leaving-zero-carbon-footprint/

https://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-successfully-made-diesel-fuel-from-air-and-water

Justin
12-10-2019, 10:33
Meanwhile, Audi figured out how to produce Diesel from wind and water.

https://thisblowsmymind.com/audi-have-created-diesel-fuel-from-water-and-co2-leaving-zero-carbon-footprint/

https://www.sciencealert.com/audi-have-successfully-made-diesel-fuel-from-air-and-water

The US Navy has done similar experiments, with the hope of being able to generate aviation fuel from ocean water.

The biggest issue is that the process is hugely energy intensive, so you need to have the ability to generate a lot of power on demand. I would expect the process would work if you had excess power capacity, e.g. from a nuclear generator. In order for this to scale to any significant level using wind or solar you'd probably have to build a whole lot more wind and solar generating plants.

I would also expect that feeding in CO2 would likely present challenges as well; it's probably not at a high enough atmospheric concentration to make it economically viable to harvest it from the air. You'd probably be better off harvesting it straight out of the smokestacks of industrial facilities and then transporting it to your clean power generation location.

In short, it's a neat science experiment, but I don't see it being readily scaled to account for a measurable segment of the fuel consumed for transportation any time within the next 50 years.

Jer
12-10-2019, 10:46
The US Navy has done similar experiments, with the hope of being able to generate aviation fuel from ocean water.

The biggest issue is that the process is hugely energy intensive, so you need to have the ability to generate a lot of power on demand. I would expect the process would work if you had excess power capacity, e.g. from a nuclear generator. In order for this to scale to any significant level using wind or solar you'd probably have to build a whole lot more wind and solar generating plants.

I would also expect that feeding in CO2 would likely present challenges as well; it's probably not at a high enough atmospheric concentration to make it economically viable to harvest it from the air. You'd probably be better off harvesting it straight out of the smokestacks of industrial facilities and then transporting it to your clean power generation location.

In short, it's a neat science experiment, but I don't see it being readily scaled to account for a measurable segment of the fuel consumed for transportation any time within the next 50 years.

Good to know that all the advancements we make in electricity production today will likely help us to make fuel once it truly does run out. We still need that stuff for LOTS of things that are critical to us in 2019 and I can only imagine will become even more critical moving forward.

Gman
12-10-2019, 12:21
Good to know that all the advancements we make in electricity production today will likely help us to make fuel once it truly does run out.
Your great-grandchildren will probably be saying the same thing.

Jer
12-10-2019, 12:41
Your great-grandchildren will probably be saying the same thing.

I don't have kids (that I know of) so it's going to be difficult for my great-grandchildren to say anything.

Gman
12-10-2019, 13:23
I couldn't say 'our', because I'm in the same boat. It was more of a literary mechanism to denote the passage of time.

ray1970
12-10-2019, 14:18
I just hope if anyone makes a hydrogen powered vehicle that the inventors have a good sense of humor and name the first model the Hindenburg.

Gman
12-10-2019, 15:01
"Oh, the humanity."

Gman
12-11-2019, 13:02
More follow-up on the Ford Mustang Mach-E SUV (not an SUV):

MotorTrend: The Ford Mustang Mach-E Is an SUV Short on Utility (https://www.motortrend.com/news/ford-mustang-mach-e-suv-short-utility)
Ground clearance and towing capacity are severely lacking

There comes a certain set of expectations when an automaker labels a vehicle an SUV. I've heard plenty of talk about whether Ford's new battery-powered Mustang Mach-E SUV deserves its pony car moniker, but what about the three-letter acronym that tells us how we're supposed to categorize the thing?

The now-ubiquitous term stands for sport utility vehicle. When I see those letters attached to a car, I expect that car to clear taller obstacles, hold more of my stuff, and haul a heavier trailer than a similarly sized and powered sedan or wagon. We know as well as anyone that search volume for "electric SUVs" is a magnitude larger than it is for "electric crossovers," but words still have meaning. Right?

Ground Clearance
So how about the Mach-E? In terms of ground clearance, standard Mach-E models have 5.7 inches between their lowest point and the ground, but the high-performance Mach-E GT has just 5.3 inches. To put that in context, a Mustang GT (the two-door sports car with a big V-8 up front) has 5.7 inches of ground clearance—almost half an inch more than its battery-powered SUV-labeled big brother. Call me old-fashioned, but that's absurd.

If we compare the Mach-E to Ford's more conventional gas-powered SUVs, it makes sense to look at the dimensionally similar Ford Edge. Standard Edge models have 8.0 inches of ground clearance, and the sport-tuned Edge ST—similar in ethos to the Mach-E GT—has 8.2 inches. The Mach-E is much closer in ride height to the U.K.-spec Ford Focus wagon, which has between 4.5 and 5.3 inches of clearance.

(If you were wondering, Tesla's recently unveiled Cybertruck has up to 16 inches of ground clearance.)

Cargo Capacity
Comparing cargo capacity, the Mach-E is once again much closer to Ford's station wagon than to its similarly sized SUV. The Mach-E has 29.0 cubic feet behind the second row or 59.6 cubes with the seats folded down. Because it doesn't have an engine up front, there's also a front trunk between the front wheels with another 4.8 cubic feet of space.

Although it's labeled an SUV, the Mach-E doesn't have much of an advantage over that Focus wagon in terms of stuff space. The wagon has 21.5 cubic feet of cargo volume behind the rear seats or 58.4 with everything folded flat—only 6.0 cubic feet less than the Mach-E if you include its frunk.

Against the Edge, though, the Mach-E doesn't compare so favorably. The Edge boasts 39.2 cubes behind the second row or an impressive 73.4 cubic feet of cargo volume with its seats folded flat. Those figures each show advantages of more than 10 cubic feet over the Mach-E.

Towing Capacity
Perhaps Ford is under the impression that electric vehicle buyers and customers interested in towing don't overlap. I'm not so convinced (and neither is Elon Musk), but either way, the Mustang Mach-E will not be set up for towing in North American markets when it arrives next year.

On the gas-powered side of things, a standard four-cylinder front-wheel-drive Edge can tow 1,500 pounds, and if you spring for an all-wheel-drive Edge ST with the twin-turbo V-6, it'll tug up to 3,500 pounds. Those aren't huge numbers, but it's plenty of capability for towing a smaller boat or camper. Meanwhile, the overperforming Focus wagon will tow up to 1,800 kg—that's almost 4,000 pounds.

Name Game
So which is the bigger stretch, calling the Mach-E a Mustang or calling it an SUV? If you're asking me, it's the latter. Don't get me wrong, I like the Mach-E. It's one of very few Ford products I'm excited about right now. It'll likely make a great daily driver, winter warrior, grocery getter, and maybe even a canyon carver.

My back-seat impressions of the driving experience are optimistic about this car performing like a Mustang should. Just don't try to fool yourself into thinking it's any kind of workhorse.

Justin
12-11-2019, 13:37
I just hope if anyone makes a hydrogen powered vehicle that the inventors have a good sense of humor and name the first model the Hindenburg.

The challenges facing hydrogen powered cars are much bigger than even EVs. I don't see them being viable without at least a handful of significant breakthroughs.

That said, Nikola motors thinks otherwise, so I guess we'll see.

Irving
12-11-2019, 13:52
The Mustang SUV is likely more a play to lower their average fuel rating in that class. Also, anyone looking at a Mustang SUV should understand that it will suck at being a Mustang, and at being an SUV. The article is on point though.

hurley842002
12-11-2019, 14:09
I REALLY dig the looks of the 2021 Z71 Tahoe, unfortunately it looks like the diesel option isn't available in that trim level, which is what I would want, but it's all irrelevant, as I'm not planning on dropping that kind of coin on a vehicle any time soon.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191211/910588bd18df95aba3c4340b3d9f288a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gman
12-11-2019, 14:15
Really? I find that front end to be hideous.

hurley842002
12-11-2019, 14:21
Really? I find that front end to be hideous.

The front end isn't my favorite part, but the rest of it looks bad ass IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gman
12-11-2019, 14:35
Just saw some interior pics and those are also very meh.

brutal
12-11-2019, 15:50
I find every GM truck product front end to be hideous.

hurley842002
12-11-2019, 16:11
Just saw some interior pics and those are also very meh.

Considering I drive a 2011 Nissan Xterra, everything about that Tahoe would be an upgrade lol.


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Gman
12-11-2019, 16:12
I find every GM truck product front end to be hideous.


Especially the new ones. I've been a Chevy guy pretty much my whole life. I waited for the new trucks to come out last year and was shocked at how far behind in the market they were.

Then this happened...
79633

ray1970
12-11-2019, 19:08
Nice. Almost looks like my Dodge. Lol.

brutal
12-11-2019, 19:55
Especially the new ones. I've been a Chevy guy pretty much my whole life. I waited for the new trucks to come out last year and was shocked at how far behind in the market they were.

Then this happened...
79633

Nice truck. Been happy with my Dodge HD trucks.

I've been shopping for a damn near fully optioned 2019 3500 SRW Laramie Diesel. Can't find anything with the options I want so I guess I'll have to factory order.

Trying to nail down the contact info for internet sales or fleet guys has been fun. I'm blasting out an email and may the best dealer win... Had fun with a chat bot today. I think I broke it.

That looks like a Limited? How do you like the 12" panel?

brutal
12-11-2019, 20:03
I'm looking for this, something that matches my camper and boat colors.

Not happy with these super fat/tall bumpers these days.


https://i.imgur.com/L0EXjVQ.png

Gman
12-11-2019, 20:37
That looks like a Limited? How do you like the 12" panel?
Love it and the HK audio. I also find I'm using the panoramic sunroof much more often than I thought I would. I've had Chevy Tahoes with 5.7l and 5.3l engines, and none of them were as fun as the 5.7l Hemi in this truck. The ZF 8-speed transmission is awesome.

I'm looking forward to the new full-size SUVs from Jeep and Dodge based on the 1500 DT platform.

Irving
12-11-2019, 21:43
Saw this at Home Depot today. Love it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OxEG1wfV1B-oypnbfapzJGjrL0Urt9i8uXPAls05V_vq3VQSc8QosnqiTKPRb 66EWr0Vk4tIqi-kW-9THwFSth5NGoGfKwHtOm0Bf2dEyAEkC7JGXEgOcOV-vp1ZMgT1QGBMj6-ZHSN827TXbWEoCBB1dJFNPjOzANrsoCq3FBhB_GHuVREYKNciu-pb90XgFLiw_vqRrXYmLKZqm5_z6pXAKo9xYF2_Q7MISLbIEGmS cCV8JWhJVpI6jAlIPrD4KymIezRBU_WUGYeQfbhuwIQOpUUpb5 PMEcpnVVsT0sNvyJeLjAAikPKILA7HJ7Vp2Ozn_F5NZeOujC_j RF2KGPu0xeGfvO87aQ1bEPMSmRICtGgQbnbXsQ_oTrydrL6I_n 5cUnOJYa9HMA57hSWqP44hAqu6oi-KEUEInyZ1I5oZmERAITk-UwLm9p7oq1ClyRu7GtE_kYQa0Ifgm1TRijmBWiG-CBaZDTfcSj3UT39JxoiZei0MumUnHUNIfg3obJ5Bu5I_HNH5Mv llCc4A-dIUIcpO4v0b4Dpgsiuriwe3i-7DECiN6Oo8HRsAdVmD0Atw-czK2uuTy-iLws3xXFyYo4WFlnkEtSTNToQWYeQZGL2bezKcdG_8U2IESUGi jt6sdx_ynGsCI6AUC4wirycslm94XwdhyQxVhYAnc2PWrmipq8 MfPVKWTGmURyciCMaGfkKdjqgEK7tohqXL0y86JgUPW2M0Kktn v5q79hj2339T=w1112-h625-no

Irving
12-11-2019, 21:48
Need help with something. 2007 Ford Focus SE. Wife called today and said the car got really loud and the engine light was flashing. She limped it to a place I can leave it a few days. What is this sensor in the middle here? There is for sure an exhaust leak here, but I can't imagine that this little rubber boot is all that was holding in exhaust. Anyone familiar with this?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/nAOnE0XYB4TfzbJzK4qM9O4-_hcMb-lbAtlNSXvgOQEuZbmirUAts3G0JS9XpviDZsw8n4J0DnoZAkHV 3TJW38qa89U8bGqFXsixRYV9wvL7kkj3Fxd33n5844aUPs-yDIsCZFqiSGJtrw3iYm6byK7DV2gRCckCQJzSzV3zR2IAhCIr0 pvF4yzdqw7NmlBsHD6wC4jKytExH4L6rIkefE7PKkDOFNnrNn2 RZJj_hztWNB2qidOue1Lia4YNVc78U5ojhA73_30x8ZUU6be4A Ibpo2K0-GVHDnbAtiszhKutuheHKhao52z8ZniBrW2kUPXUAQFikMLzb6_ P4QZuBhNx7K9udUJdnB70bD8ogEDgpsgPM1KUYW4LkML2TSeHY VjFS8ttwyDMZ1Urua0uff3jVPQt6JC3KyxLNWbnTCZrT2C1cyX m_RckrLLdNZh5N2hsfTeho-Pl3AYHDQgPWZRTmIQkxnzbGfvQupmwMTlOtONTmu0fPAskaaeG LiJ2WrY2Tta8gloiR3AIvNJqOa4P_Q5sPWvfFLraQ15eLeYc0n-VbtKZpPrhAzk1qIfgKk9KOknM4IgLTb_CsC8VNjEk-XKIlYGvckgsanxA_7nHcfcWTE_AHDIwtzhZD5kG3tM2ja13HE-AM8BLIaLoJohELybM9O8wc1aLWAqS1yLItlTD2h5dsJtvC8ujn 4B5OIfpJ4pRVbCySvo_MpFOAz79M6x5DHy4Fsym8Ifd4CuPSZH B=w889-h500-no
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/okHcppu1YoTeDNDiBiRjJNJ1HtsJRIJtinGxPIvTBBpL3_w-4C8-HXybr2n3X_Oge8OvnLi0M2aCGE3X8BTVlvYW1bvF5M8iNI3h0T AH2awwdzoljUlk49KbdecSSBK8LDznQf1shyBU_v_trpcd_S-aIFlhlQshMOhEBEAyk3bEL_m-OG9HUWdRRszhi6Lbf1NaC8wGyckcmJsLK_QAIkYUp9Ny_XNC1v L4Dp01dw94R7JBijHPFfAF7oI4FKZcZHncz2wkpDi6-DmqtN3LaNTJGjmuKTt3j51d2cAAsXmiHZob0Ncgitqtw9GfYBs vrZ-jH__uQ5k9BmdWBshv7GbmfD-LW_sPunwoUmk7k8khWBQ_4LLs21qwB8ue1wKgKCDJrhEH2ar-EB7xfByngonZJOw3coUNjQmdTSl9kzzLe8cipNBnwexHNGfjLf rakvQJBcVEoODRZmnW9Wu9FNDaWFUlaCD4cMJIcboZOCudIQUq tN7xDf_R_rDV1X3mNrCFfUH0Q7lbpSz-gNduXrc5DKN18ddPb-xYaZfnBu4ap7IRvGc8NnYWiSegyIuZj_9pgFQFOkeolOHhNJCK PaR3S1dcGkYws5qGe3xRNHPnqDeTnrvLAdI-J0BEaQ9OdseEjGdc1vaYmS3i0_HuVoGOSpsUmm4-MNViipR2Fvnpu9CrKf6_YCH2hrzoHuV38lduWwRkqU4DwdhHpe WIMfCvuyjkE7iAbNdl8X80fBfNevnN=w1112-h625-no

Seems similar to when an F-150 blows the spark plug out of the head. We had that happen on a camping trip up in Wyoming earlier this year, and the truck made it up there and back. Can I drive this car home and work on it at my own place?

Jer
12-11-2019, 22:42
Knock sensor?

00tec
12-11-2019, 22:55
What year and model is that?

Irving
12-11-2019, 22:58
Looks like it might be the cylinder head temp sensor.

Irving
12-11-2019, 22:59
What year and model is that?

Good call. That is on a 2007 Ford Focus SE.

Gman
12-11-2019, 23:12
Manifold temp sensor?

zteknik
12-11-2019, 23:43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj4HWhxB9J8
Cylinder head temp sensor.
Valve cover has to come off. Napa or any parts store should have one.

00tec
12-11-2019, 23:51
That's the one.

Gman
12-11-2019, 23:56
Looks like it's time to change the valve cover gasket as well?

Irving
12-12-2019, 00:01
If the valve cover has to come off, a gasket change is in order for sure.

Irving
12-12-2019, 00:01
Thanks fellas.

zteknik
12-12-2019, 00:04
Hopefully it didn't pop a head gasket.

Irving
12-12-2019, 00:06
Yeah seriously. Pretty sure that's above my pay grade.

MrPrena
12-12-2019, 00:33
https://youtu.be/qztuEucrNBc

brutal
12-12-2019, 01:10
Love it and the HK audio. I also find I'm using the panoramic sunroof much more often than I thought I would. I've had Chevy Tahoes with 5.7l and 5.3l engines, and none of them were as fun as the 5.7l Hemi in this truck. The ZF 8-speed transmission is awesome.

I'm looking forward to the new full-size SUVs from Jeep and Dodge based on the 1500 DT platform.

I was a bit concerned about having such a large panel WRT potential failure and service cost down the road. However, after seeing some videos and wanting the rear view trailer camera setup along with a split panel, I think I'm sold on spending the extra $ for it (option in the Laramie trim level). The Limited in the HD class is so much more even optioned out mostly the same. They add all the collision avoidance/radar cruise stuff and some interior trims I just don't need or care for. I can get exactly what I want for $5K less.

ray1970
12-12-2019, 06:11
I'm looking forward to the new full-size SUVs from Jeep and Dodge based on the 1500 DT platform.

A new Dodge Ramcharger would be sweet. Depending on the price I could definitely see my wife driving one.

Gman
12-12-2019, 09:04
Ram Trucks has been a separate nameplate from Dodge since 2011. From what I can tell there's no plan to have a Ram full size SUV. I wish they would build one. The crew cab is like having an SUV with a bed. The rear seats have a ton of leg room and they even recline. I do like the compactness and shorter overall length of an SUV like the Tahoe. I just don't like where GM has been going.

If you're looking to get a Ram truck, just get the biggest fuel tank you can. I see so many folks complaining about the 1500 standard 26 gallon tank. I went with the 33 gallon tank since you can always put 26 gallons in a 33 gallon tank. Trying to get 33 into a 26 gallon tank just doesn't seem to be as easy. [Coffee]

The Hellcat-powered Ram Rebel TRX is supposed to launch next year: UAW Contract Brings Out Some New Details On Upcoming TRX Model (https://5thgenrams.com/uaw-contract-brings-out-some-new-details-on-upcoming-trx-model/?amp)

Irving
12-12-2019, 09:14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj4HWhxB9J8
Cylinder head temp sensor.
Valve cover has to come off. Napa or any parts store should have one.

Sounds like driving it home is not an option. Bummer.

MrPrena
12-12-2019, 21:15
peTROLLING.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/11/tesla-electric-cars-block-gas-station-protest/



Tesla and other EVs block gas station in protest against charging station Icing

Tesla vehicles and a few other electric vehicles blocked a gas station in Croatia in a protest organized by the local unofficial Tesla owners club against the lack of action to prevent EV charging stations being blocked by parked gas-powered cars, also known as Icing.

Irving
12-13-2019, 00:38
Update: It's not the cylinder head temp sensor. The spark plug immediately to the left blew out. The exhaust leak just blew out the rubber boot of the temp sensor.

Went and got a new coil and new plugs. Threads are trashed. How do I tell if I can use a helicoil, or have to have a sleeve welded in?

Erni
12-13-2019, 01:29
Never had to do this myself. If the hole is smaller than the helicoil drill you should be able to drill it out and tap it. You will need to keep it all vertical.

Try a machine shop, ask it they can do it in the car.

ray1970
12-13-2019, 07:07
Helicoils are garbage. If you have room for a Keensert I?d go that route.

Irving
12-13-2019, 08:38
Is that the same thing, but a different brand? This is all new territory for me.

Irving
12-13-2019, 08:47
I looked it up, Keensert looks much better. If I'm going to have to drill and tap the threads anyway, I'd rather have the solid insert than just wire. Thanks for the tip.

Erni
12-13-2019, 08:52
Helicoil is a diamond crossection spring. One side of a diamond goes into the new thread, the other forms the "old" thread. Keensert is a bushing/sleeve that is threaded on inside and outside. Generally it is bigger and thicker and once installed has locking tabs that get hammered in. Helicoils are held in by spring action.
Helicoils for assembly and limited in/out are fine. Multiple in/outs do better with keenserts. Keenserts will be a bit stronger because the outside diameter is bigger and thus they grab a bigger shear area.
If your plugs are taper sealed helicoils could be an issue. If your plugs have a shoulder snd crush gasket, helicoils should be fine.
Helicoils require a special tap, whereas keenserts use normal tap sizes.

Irving
12-13-2019, 09:05
Can one realistically drill and tap without filling the cylinder with metal shavings though?

00tec
12-13-2019, 09:11
Can one realistically drill and tap without filling the cylinder with metal shavings though?

Yes. Use a heavy grease on the threads of the tap. Clean and regrease several times while cutting threads. The grease will catch and hold the shavings. Use compressed air to blow out any others before installing plug.

Erni
12-13-2019, 09:12
Sort off. If you get a valve open and run a shop vac there should be enough suction to get most chips out during ops. After you are done with tapping I would probably use a small tube and vaccum in the chamber, and inspect.
Other way I could see doing this is by running the piston up higher to contol the chips and make them fall close to the center of the piston. Then vaccum with a tube, get the piston lower, inspect and revaccum.

Erni
12-13-2019, 09:13
How many miles on car?

Irving
12-13-2019, 09:33
I want to say about 140,000 miles. I was trying to use a straw duct taped to a vacuum last night just to clean up the parts from the exploded coil that settled on top of another plug. It wasn't working crap. I just plugged all the holes and blew the junk out.

Appreciate all the advice this far. It does seem like I'll still end up taking the valve cover off to access everything though. Oh yeah, that piston just so happens to be stopped very near the top already, so that's good.

TFOGGER
12-13-2019, 10:00
Timesert makes kits for doing these in place. That's what we use in the shop.

http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html

Gman
12-13-2019, 10:01
Wow, that whole operation sounds really sucky. Sounds like some anti-seize on the plug threads would have helped?

Irving
12-13-2019, 10:05
Wow, that whole operation sounds really sucky. Sounds like some anti-seize on the plug threads would have helped?

Unlikely. It blew the spark plug out of the hole while driving. Apparently its a relatively common Ford thing.

00tec
12-13-2019, 10:08
I did some kind of insert, but it wasn't a helicoil, dont remember the brand. This was about 15 years ago on my Taurus. Solid insert, used grease while tapping the hole. Put another 100,000 miles on the car without issue.

Gman
12-13-2019, 10:09
I had a spark plug insulator fail and it kept pushing the boot off. That was an older car that didn't have a coil pack sitting on top of it, so it wasn't a big deal. I just had to replace the plug. I've never seen a plug pushed out of the threads in the head.

Irving
12-13-2019, 10:12
I had a spark plug insulator fail and it kept pushing the boot off. That was an older car that didn't have a coil pack sitting on top of it, so it wasn't a big deal. I just had to replace the plug. I've never seen a plug pushed out of the threads in the head.

I had a '79 Super Beetle that blew a plug out on me, but I got lucky and it just unthreaded. My cousin had an F-150 and had it happen multiple times. He said sometimes they'd just unthread and sometimes it'd trash the threads. We were on our way up to Cheyenne for a camping trip and he blew a plug around Fort Collins. It trashed his threads so he drove it the rest of the way up to Cheyenne, then took a day out of our trip to drive it back home and come back with another vehicle. This was all towing a little pop-up trailer too. That was a fun trip.

Gman
12-13-2019, 10:18
Well, I've never owned a Ford, so maybe that's it? Even my Chevy Lumina with aluminum heads didn't have that issue. Just needed to make sure to use anti-seize compound to make sure the head threads were protected from the steel plug threads.

BushMasterBoy
12-13-2019, 10:32
Well, I've never owned a Ford, so maybe that's it? Even my Chevy Lumina with aluminum heads didn't have that issue. Just needed to make sure to use anti-seize compound to make sure the head threads were protected from the steel plug threads.

This! Usually change plugs before 50K miles.

https://www.amazon.com/Permatex-80078-Anti-Seize-Lubricant-Bottle/dp/B000FW7VGE/ref=asc_df_B000FW7VGE/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312181776237&hvpos=1o4&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13385486602125216964&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029047&hvtargid=pla-492337354522&psc=1

Gman
12-13-2019, 10:36
I didn't do it that often, so I just used a tube:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91%2BmiwEYcWL._SL1500_.jpg

As I recall it had a copper color to it, but that was in the '90s.

eddiememphis
12-13-2019, 10:52
I did some kind of insert, but it wasn't a helicoil, dont remember the brand. This was about 15 years ago on my Taurus. Solid insert, used grease while tapping the hole. Put another 100,000 miles on the car without issue.

Likely a Time-Sert. I have used them many times, often on saltwater engines when the steel bolt corrodes and takes the threads out of the aluminum block.

https://www.timesert.com/

eddiememphis
12-13-2019, 10:59
As I recall it had a copper color to it, but that was in the '90s.

The copper is higher temp and is a better electrical conductor. There is also a nickel that is very high temp and high pressure for stainless and titanium.

zteknik
12-13-2019, 18:58
Update: It's not the cylinder head temp sensor. The spark plug immediately to the left blew out. The exhaust leak just blew out the rubber boot of the temp sensor.

Went and got a new coil and new plugs. Threads are trashed. How do I tell if I can use a helicoil, or have to have a sleeve welded in?
Ouch. Well there is a fix, besides a new head- there is a helicoil kit just for the Fords and for the Focus You can order online or Napa should have it. comes with the drill bit,tap and insert. Be advised you should have an air compressor so you can blow out the drill shavings out of the hole otherwise the engine gets trashed. Helicoil or Keenserts should be available

Irving
12-13-2019, 19:54
Thanks. I'll update whether I ruin the car or not.

ray1970
12-13-2019, 20:07
Is it wrong that part of me wants you to ruin it just because it will probably make for an entertaining story?

Gman
12-13-2019, 20:17
Is it wrong that part of me wants you to ruin it just because it will probably make for an entertaining story?

[hahhah-no]

Irving
12-13-2019, 20:23
I generally ruin enough stuff as it is. I'd prefer not to have to get a new vehicle during my slow season.

Erni
12-13-2019, 20:47
You got this. As long as you keep the alignment and take it easy it will be fine. Don't force the tap, and don't bend it. (Removing broken taps sucks, don't ask me how I know...)

wyome
12-13-2019, 21:05
Got my lil ones car running smoothly again, and new tires on it too. Just need to replace the brakes and itz good to go...

Erni
12-13-2019, 21:10
Popped the AC controll back in place on the Yaris. Bad design, has a tiny tab on both sides of the contol knob. Google brings up a bunch of issues with the Yaris AC control.

ray1970
12-13-2019, 22:08
I generally ruin enough stuff as it is. I'd prefer not to have to get a new vehicle during my slow season.

Technically if you screwed it up beyond repair you?d just have to replace the cylinder head, not the whole car. A used head would probably cost less than a new handgun. Obviously it came to that you would probably want to look pretty closely at the spark plug holes in the used head before you bought it.

whitewalrus
12-15-2019, 11:24
I didn't do it that often, so I just used a tube:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91%2BmiwEYcWL._SL1500_.jpg

As I recall it had a copper color to it, but that was in the '90s.

They still make the copper type as well as the aluminum that you picture.

Irving
12-15-2019, 12:04
Timesert makes kits for doing these in place. That's what we use in the shop.

http://www.timesert.com/html/sparkplug.html

Man, these are a lot more than I thought. I suppose I could just sell the kit when I'm done.

earplug
12-15-2019, 14:06
Had a old MAZDA 4 cylinder B2000 that kept blowing plugs after replacement. I suspect the alloy that Ford uses for its heads loves to bond to sparkplugs.

Gman
12-15-2019, 15:04
I think Irving's Duratec was made by Mazda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Duratec_engine

brutal
12-15-2019, 20:23
Had a old MAZDA 4 cylinder B2000 that kept blowing plugs after replacement. I suspect the alloy that Ford uses for its heads loves to bond to sparkplugs.

AKA Ford Ranger.

I had a B4000 4x4 extended cab with a V6. Not a bad truck but electrical gremlins and need for a bigger truck got me out of that one. It would frequently not crank after it got hot and then sat for > 5 minutes. Dealer could never figure it out so I dumped it.

ray1970
12-15-2019, 21:10
Yep. Most of Fords small trucks and suvs and cars have had Mazda power plants for quite a while now.

Martinjmpr
12-16-2019, 09:24
AKA Ford Ranger.


Depends on which year of Mazda you are talking about. The Mazda pickups from 1971 (or whenever they started selling them in the US) until (I think) 1993 were Japanese made with a Mazda engine. Ford also sold the "Courier" pickup which was just a re-badged Mazda.

Then in 1994 they switched. Mazda stopped importing trucks to the US and instead Mazda dealers in the US sold rebadged Ford Rangers as Mazdas.

I've owned one of each: A 1984 Mazda B2000 (Japanese built) and a 1996 Mazda B2300 (AKA a Ford Ranger.) I don't recall having any issues with the plugs on the 84 Mazda and I never changed them in the 96.

Gman
12-16-2019, 10:14
The Ford/Mazda relationship ran pretty deep from 1974 to 2015. This included the Explorer/Navajo.

brutal
12-16-2019, 13:08
Depends on which year of Mazda you are talking about. The Mazda pickups from 1971 (or whenever they started selling them in the US) until (I think) 1993 were Japanese made with a Mazda engine. Ford also sold the "Courier" pickup which was just a re-badged Mazda.

Then in 1994 they switched. Mazda stopped importing trucks to the US and instead Mazda dealers in the US sold rebadged Ford Rangers as Mazdas.

I've owned one of each: A 1984 Mazda B2000 (Japanese built) and a 1996 Mazda B2300 (AKA a Ford Ranger.) I don't recall having any issues with the plugs on the 84 Mazda and I never changed them in the 96.

Correct. I had a 1994 Mazda B4000 which was a Ford Ranger in Mazda sheet metal. Cheaper to buy than the Ford was and not too much difference on the trade/resale. I got out of it in 1998 when I went full size into a Dodge and made out very well on the trade.

MrPrena
12-16-2019, 13:12
626 -contour
Mx6 -probe
B series truck- ranger

Those millennia with Lysholm kompressor, rx7, and miatas are one of the mazda exclusive?

Erni
12-16-2019, 13:16
Any of you have experiance with icarsoft pro obd2 scanner? If you have a different type of pro scanner I would be interested in hearing about it too.
I looked at bluedriver but volvo support is not there. Lots of other apps claim full support but fail short of supporting abs/brakes and other can bus modules.
Trying to cry once but can't go crazy either.

Martinjmpr
12-16-2019, 13:17
Correct. I had a 1994 Mazda B4000 which was a Ford Ranger in Mazda sheet metal. Cheaper to buy than the Ford was and not too much difference on the trade/resale. I got out of it in 1998 when I went full size into a Dodge and made out very well on the trade.

I think the "chicken tax" was also a factor. Imported trucks get taxed higher than those assembled in the US.

ray1970
12-16-2019, 13:25
I think the "chicken tax" was also a factor. Imported trucks get taxed higher than those assembled in the US.

Yeah. Hence the partnerships between Ford/Mazda, Chrysler/Mitsubishi, and GM/Isuzu.

Nowadays the ?import? trucks are just built here in the states.

I had some douche bag trying to rag on me about a Nissan truck I used to own. I had to shut him up by showing him his Chervrolet truck was built in Mexico and my Nissan was built in Tennessee.

brutal
12-16-2019, 14:26
Yeah. Hence the partnerships between Ford/Mazda, Chrysler/Mitsubishi, and GM/Isuzu.

Nowadays the ?import? trucks are just built here in the states.

I had some douche bag trying to rag on me about a Nissan truck I used to own. I had to shut him up by showing him his Chervrolet truck was built in Mexico and my Nissan was built in Tennessee.

True, and while there's a healthy influx of jobs and revenue where they're built, all the profits still go to Japan, Korea, etc.

My old ass Dodge truck was assembled in Mexico, my old ass car in Germany so I'm a globalist in that sense. However, my next and last new vehicle purchase will be a RAM built in the US.

Gman
12-16-2019, 19:01
Yeah. Hence the partnerships between Ford/Mazda, Chrysler/Mitsubishi, and GM/Isuzu.
Don't forget the GM/Toyota partnership (their manufacturing facility is now owned by Tesla). Duramax is a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.

I won't be surprised to see more coop-etition between brands going forward.

MrPrena
12-17-2019, 18:48
Last night dinner with someone was talking about Rivian for about 30 minutes. Lots of listening and good info.

ray1970
12-17-2019, 19:31
Maybe Tesla and Rivian could have some sort of big truck showdown between their vehicles. Maybe hook them to absurdly large trailers and race up the side of a mountain.

MrPrena
12-17-2019, 19:58
I think rivian already have 700m worth of preorder from amazon. Whereas tesla is just busy with publicity like Elon driving a prototype truck on the road, or having tug of war with ford truck types of articles.

[Driver][DriveBy]

eddiememphis
12-17-2019, 20:06
...all the profits still go to Japan, Korea, etc.

... However, my next and last new vehicle purchase will be a RAM built in the US.

Owned by FCA with the head office in Holland and the financial office in London. And getting ready to merge with Peugeot.

Irving
12-17-2019, 21:42
I don't understand the concern about where profits go.

ray1970
12-17-2019, 21:49
It has something to do with that whole "merica" thing.

Gman
12-17-2019, 21:54
Owned by FCA with the head office in Holland and the financial office in London. And getting ready to merge with Peugeot.

In February 2019, Fiat Chrysler announced plans to invest $4.5 billion in manufacturing in Michigan.[46] The plant is estimated to create nearly 6,500 jobs. Plans include $1.6 billion to build a Jeep factory in Detroit.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles

brutal
12-17-2019, 23:07
Owned by FCA with the head office in Holland and the financial office in London. And getting ready to merge with Peugeot.


I don't understand the concern about where profits go.


It has something to do with that whole "merica" thing.


In February 2019, Fiat Chrysler announced plans to invest $4.5 billion in manufacturing in Michigan.[46] The plant is estimated to create nearly 6,500 jobs. Plans include $1.6 billion to build a Jeep factory in Detroit.[47]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Chrysler_Automobiles

Just stating the facts. I've got no heartburn over where profits go. As I previously stated, I'm somewhat of a globalist in that regard and so is my 401k. That said, I'd rather see the jerbs in 'Merica than elsewhere.

Jer
12-18-2019, 09:48
Tesla is an American company that employs Americans to build innovative cars right here in America. Just saying.

In my normal conversations it amazes me how many people think Tesla is some foreign conglomerate. I guess we're programmed to think that these days since most car companies either are, outsource all of their labor or both. You get foreign companies building some of their cars here so they can market the "built in America" part. You can either get the company profits to be American or the jobs to be American with company profits going overseas but you can't get both these days. Well, unless it's Tesla that is.

This is what cracks me up about how many people want to see Tesla fail, root against them and actively short the stock. Even if it's not the right car for you and your needs you should still want to see an American company that is actually innovating and shaking things up succeed. Hell, look at the quickening transition to EVs and the rapid uptick of tech in cars... we're already winners as consumers for the amount of fear Tesla has struck in the companies who've been content with "business as usual" for decades.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 13:05
Hopefully Tesla is sourcing a lot of their electronics from Japan. I?d hate to think they?re using crappy American electronics.

Also, I see they?re building a new dealership in Superior.

Jer
12-18-2019, 13:13
Hopefully Tesla is sourcing a lot of their electronics from Japan. I?d hate to think they?re using crappy American electronics.

Also, I see they?re building a new dealership in Superior.

Not 100% of their parts/materials are sourced in the US which isn't a bad thing necessarily as you've eluded to.

The new location is another service center that's supposed to be done at the start of the year.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 13:24
So you can get your engine oil changed? Maybe a set of spark plugs?














(I know... there has to be some sort of transmission or differential fluid in there somewhere. Or some bearings that need greased or whatever.)

Jer
12-18-2019, 13:54
So you can get your engine oil changed? Maybe a set of spark plugs?














(I know... there has to be some sort of transmission or differential fluid in there somewhere. Or some bearings that need greased or whatever.)

For most users, the service center isn't something you need to visit frequently. For most smaller repair items Tesla uses what's called "Ranger Technicians" that come to you instead. You open your Tesla app, say your door handle isn't presenting or whatever problem you're having and it asks for the address (home, work, etc.) at which point it gives you a list of the soonest dates/times. You select which works best for you and bam! Done. A nice Ranger Tech (Nick up here) arrives at your appointment time and fixes your problem. This covers most issues that can come up with a Tesla and only the larger repair items require a shop. Lots of alignment and suspension component type work would need to be done at the service center. In fact, probably the largest responsibilities of the Tesla Service Centers is just preparing new cars for delivery.

By the way, no transmission either. Single-speed direct drive. This is why the Model S maxes out at "only" 155mph because it's basic gearing limitations. Sure they could make them capable of 200mph but then 0-60 wouldn't be less than 3-seconds. I much prefer the acceleration from zero that these cars produce. They occasionally need wheel bearings but other than that, not much in terms of fluids.

The list of fluids in a Tesla is:

windshield washer fluid
coolant/glycol mixture for cabin/battery/motor heating/cooling
brake fluid

End of list. Pretty bad ass actually.

You've kind of touched on one of the major push-backs from "traditional" car dealerships & manufacturers because they make a TON of their profits on service given how much stuff on ICE cars needs service. Tesla used to have a "1-year service interval" which consisted of them replacing the wiper blades, topping off the windshield washer fluid and then inspecting tire tread and break calipers for proper operation. They quickly realized this was kind of silly and have since removed all manufacturer requirement for maintenance intervals making them the first car manufacturer to do this.

earplug
12-18-2019, 14:37
Is there a vehicle manufacturer that makes interior panels that aren't held together with plastic push pins and sheet metal screws? Something that won't self destruct every time the door is opened and closed or have to replace six plastic push rivets.

Irving
12-18-2019, 15:01
Porsche doesn't seem to have a problem doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds and having acceleration work a crap after 100mph. Then again, it has two gears.

Jer
12-18-2019, 15:15
Porsche doesn't seem to have a problem doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds and having acceleration work a crap after 100mph. Then again, it has two gears.

Yes, two gears means more moving parts means more stuff to fail and/or need maintenance. Personally, I prefer direct drive and a car capable of running 10's in the quarter mile since it clearly has no problems accelerating after 100mph if that's one of your biggest concerns in a new car. Rumor has it that the new "Plaid" version of the Model S might even crack into the 9's in the quarter mile... still direct drive too BTW. As of right now, the Model S is faster 0-60 and has WAY more range with about the same top speed (155mph vs 162mph) so there's seemingly no benefit from that 2-speed gear box. If that extra 7mph on the top end is the most critical aspect of a new six-figure-car then the Porsche is the clear winner.

Porsche has plenty of bigger problems though. Their EPA rating just came in on that car and their claimed "nearly 300-mile range" turned into only 201 miles. Ouch. For comparison, the 2012 Model S that had only a 60kwh battery had an EPA rating of 208 miles. Once again a "Tesla killer" that we've heard so much about forever and hoped it would give us something amazing and help push things forward can't even pace the performance specs of a car made 7 years ago. We've seen this play out numerous times now and all it proves is how far ahead of the pack Tesla is on battery tech.

Irving
12-18-2019, 15:43
The Tesla is great for just a regular driver like yourself where the car doesn't really need to perform. But considering that the Tesla can't even complete a single lap of Nurburgring and doesn't deliver full power launches below, what 80% battery charge, it's clearly a different car. Tesla is great in that they built something that just scratches the surface of what this new tech can do enough to get everyone's attention long enough to get others involved in the game.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 15:56
Ford produced and sold over 3,000,000 Pintos.

Once Tesla sales have surpassed the Ford Pinto they?ll be more credible.

Jer
12-18-2019, 16:13
The Tesla is great for just a regular driver like yourself where the car doesn't really need to perform. But considering that the Tesla can't even complete a single lap of Nurburgring and doesn't deliver full power launches below, what 80% battery charge, it's clearly a different car. Tesla is great in that they built something that just scratches the surface of what this new tech can do enough to get everyone's attention long enough to get others involved in the game.

Now you're assuming you know what kind of driver I am and what I look for in a car? This sort of assumptive declarative statement is exactly why I avoid posting in most of these threads. You don't know the first thing about me or my buying motivation and this post proves that. You seem to picture me as some octogenarian who's last car was a Prius which proves you know NOTHING about me. Most who know me well readily assign "gear head" status to me based on my previous collection and my hobby of always wrenching, modifying and repairing them myself. They're even more puzzled by my choice based largely off of some BS they heard or made up in their own head about Tesla that doesn't fit the narrative of someone like me owning one.

Could it be that whatever metric you've measured me against in an effort to judge me w/o knowing anything about me may be wrong or can your delicate ego not handle that sort of thing allowing you to assume you know everything about me w/o actually taking the time to learn anything about me?

You base ALL of your information off of some outdated YouTube video you watched or just some info you heard someone say once that wasn't ever even true. Yeah, you've formed a solid well-informed opinion of Tesla alright. Talking Tesla with you is like talking guns to some anti-gun person who refuses to learn the first thing about them and then produces BS they learned from Hollywood as their reasons and facts. Surely you have some idea how annoying that is and yet here you are... doing the exact same thing but insert "Tesla" instead of "gun".

Nobody I've taken for a ride in my P85D even at 50% or less SoC has questioned the power output. Most squeal like a school girl and the difference between 90% SoC and 50% SoC is like tenths of a second measured. On a car that already does 0-60 in under 3-seconds... don't you think you're over dramatizing that in order to doubt something that you have zero first-hand knowledge of?

Tesla hasn't just scratched the surface, they've taken a buzz saw to the entire industry. Here we are years later and if all they did was scratch the surface why is it that nobody can produce anything that even close to competing in every category in a single car the way Tesla has?

Irving
12-18-2019, 16:28
Yeah, I've been reading your posts since HAI. You're the same not-a-racecar-driver as every other car enthusiast who isn't a racecar driver. You saying that you avoid posting about Tesla made me laugh. I didn't read the rest.

MrPrena
12-18-2019, 16:31
Sorry guys.....
I should have not talk about Rivian.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 16:35
So, let?s totally flip this.

Who thinks I should look into a turbo kit for my hemi truck?

Jer
12-18-2019, 17:02
Yeah, I've been reading your posts since HAI. You're the same not-a-racecar-driver as every other car enthusiast who isn't a racecar driver. You saying that you avoid posting about Tesla made me laugh. I didn't read the rest.

Right, because why would you take the time to educate yourself when you can keep acting like you know everything while demonstrating that you know nothing?

Irving
12-18-2019, 17:17
Right, because why would you take the time to educate yourself when you can keep acting like you know everything while demonstrating that you know nothing?

I've never once argued with you about Tesla, nor am I against Tesla in any way. You're just such a fanboi that you can't even have a normal conversation.

00tec
12-18-2019, 17:32
So, let?s totally flip this.

Who thinks I should look into a turbo kit for my hemi truck?

Do it. I'll help.

Jer
12-18-2019, 17:33
I've never once argued with you about Tesla, nor am I against Tesla in any way. You're just such a fanboi that you can't even have a normal conversation.

So saying that "The Tesla is great for just a regular driver like yourself where the car doesn't really need to perform" isn't being argumentative? Making up some BS about a Tesla not being able to accelerate under 80% SoC isn't being argumentative? lol Okay then. Guess I'm just a fanboi.

Or possibly I'm not a fanboi at all. Maybe instead I'm someone who researches shit ad nauseam with zero allegiance to any brand on the front end. Maybe I use that research to buy whatever the best product is because I want the best for my buying dollar. Maybe once I own that product and confirm first-hand everything I researched I'm quick to sing it's praise to people who I feel would find that information valuable. Maybe I'm also someone who gets easily annoyed when someone who clearly has put zero effort into research spouts false BS as fact trying to make it seem like they're smart and well-versed on a topic in an effort to impress us or some dumb shit.

Nah, I'm probably just a fanboi who bought an inferior product and now is trying to convince himself how amazing it is every day he gets to drive a figment of his imagination that's easily the best vehicle he's ever owned in every category. That's probably it.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 17:52
Guess I'm just a fanboi.

Or possibly I'm not a fanboi at all.

Oh, I?d definitely classify you as a fanboi.

Almost to the point where you make Glock fanbois and 1911 fanbois look pretty tame.

MrPrena
12-18-2019, 19:07
Speaking of Porsche, gt3 is one of the vehicle I would like to buy when i win 3 Powerball jackpots.

Not as difficult to do maintenance than M cars and fun to drive.

MrPrena
12-18-2019, 19:27
Y'all all wrong!

Hyundai is THE BEST MANUFACTURER IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE.

1. Great gas mileage. Damn I get over 40mpg over naturally aspirated car!
Beat that Aston-Martin!

2. Double digit % cheaper than competitors in price!
Beat that Mercedes-Benz!

3. One of the best warranty in the industry!!
Beat that Lamborghini and Porsche!!

4. Maintenance cost even caveman can fix the vehicle!
Beat that BMW and RICHREBUILDS!

5. Most of popular models are made in USA! "MURICA!"
Beat that Ford made in Mexico! (Closed down )

6. Safety-Radiator cap is written in 3 languages!
Less probability to get burned when accidentally open a radiator cap when hot. (LOL)
Beat that Italian manufactuters!


TOO MANY TO LIST.

note: I am not a Hyundai fanboi.

Conclusion: whatever the manufacturer is superior/inferior to other is usually (not always) subjective.
That is what I learned from working at auto retailers during my undergrad.

ray1970
12-18-2019, 20:36
Cars started going down hill when they quit coming with ashtrays and cigarette lighters.

hurley842002
12-18-2019, 20:53
This may be my primary vehicle once I'm in AZ, 70+ miles to the gallon.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191219/73a45d4cb0fc53c6b59200d0c8650d9e.jpg

Buddy at work will give me a killer deal on it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Gman
12-18-2019, 20:53
So, let?s totally flip this.

Who thinks I should look into a turbo kit for my hemi truck?

Whipple supercharger.

Erni
12-18-2019, 21:18
So, let?s totally flip this.

Who thinks I should look into a turbo kit for my hemi truck?
Dual turbos! No seriously.

cstone
12-19-2019, 21:47
Cars started going down hill when they quit coming with ashtrays and cigarette lighters.

And seat belts too. I remember our cars growing up and they didn't have seat belts. Damn you Volvo! [Flower]

ray1970
12-19-2019, 22:15
You must be a little older than me. My first car had seat belts but they were just lap belts. No annoying shoulder strap.

Irving
12-19-2019, 22:52
If I could put the engine from my van into my Amigo, I'd do it in a heart beat.

Gman
12-20-2019, 09:10
And seat belts too. I remember our cars growing up and they didn't have seat belts. Damn you Volvo! [Flower]
Funny you mention Volvo. My first car was a 1972 Volvo 164E that I bought used from a B-52 pilot at Carswell AFB in Ft. Worth, TX. It had 150,000 miles on it. Was fuel injected, 4-wheel disc brakes, and had shoulder belts even in the back seats. That little car was built like a tank.

Looked like this;https://www.lbosscarselect.be/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/30D2F095-2274-42E9-829D-F48F071C26EB.jpeg

brutal
12-22-2019, 22:06
I've never once argued with you about Tesla, nor am I against Tesla in any way. You're just such a fanboi that you can't even have a normal conversation.

I don't recall anyone in the thread saying anything about Tesla profits or not being an American company.

Every. Vehicle. Thread. Tesla. FFS.

brutal
12-22-2019, 22:07
Sorry guys.....
I should have not talk about Rivian.

Yup, your fault.

ray1970
12-22-2019, 22:16
Found a picture of Jer?s most recent handgun purchase.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191223/14f453816a02b175af152aab793a9990.jpg

buffalobo
12-23-2019, 17:20
Found a picture of Jer?s most recent handgun purchase.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191223/14f453816a02b175af152aab793a9990.jpgIs there an adapter to charge at super station?

ray1970
12-23-2019, 17:33
Probably uses the same cord as the car. I think it?s one of those micro usb things.

Irving
01-06-2020, 16:08
Once I cut the threads on a spark plug repair, how do I clean the grease out so the threads are clean enough for thread locker? Run it through dry?

BushMasterBoy
01-06-2020, 16:14
Once I cut the threads on a spark plug repair, how do I clean the grease out so the threads are clean enough for thread locker? Run it through dry?

Brake cleaner.

Irving
01-06-2020, 16:19
No issue with that going into the cylinder?

SideShow Bob
01-06-2020, 16:19
Once I cut the threads on a spark plug repair, how do I clean the grease out so the threads are clean enough for thread locker? Run it through dry?

If the head is still on the car, bring the cylinder to TDC and use degreaser spray and a vacuum cleaner with a small dia. Hose .

Irving
01-06-2020, 16:20
Then let it all evaporate for a few minutes?

Erni
01-06-2020, 16:30
Find an ether based brake cleaner or start fluid. It will evaporate just fine in a few minutes.

Irving
01-06-2020, 16:34
Have on hand, thanks.

Irving
01-06-2020, 19:21
Got it done, thanks.

Gman
01-06-2020, 19:50
This should be an entertaining subject...

Austrian Engineers Transplant Gasoline Engine Into Tesla Model 3 to Create Full Hybrid (https://www.thedrive.com/news/31732/austrian-engineers-transplant-gasoline-engine-into-tesla-model-3-to-create-full-hybrid)

The Mark II makes up for the lost capacity by boasting a small 54-horsepower, two-cylinder engine in its frunk, a device that Obrist calls a "zero vibration generator." Any time the vehicle travels more than 40 miles per hour, the generator kicks on and constantly charges the battery. Obrist says that this constant charging protects the battery cells from damage and does so quite efficiently, sipping only half a gallon of gasoline for every 60 miles it travels.

The main goal of the project wasn't necessarily to hybridize a Tesla. Rather, it was to decrease the overall cost of an electrified car. So while we likely won't see a Model 3 with this particular conversion hitting Tesla's configurator any time soon, we could still see similar applications elsewhere in the world, especially as vehicle prices continue to rise.
They essentially created a Chevy Volt.

MrPrena
01-06-2020, 21:17
My mother just got a 2020 Corolla and she is very happy with it. Great gas mileage.

Erni
01-11-2020, 17:14
Well crap. Had power steering issues on the burb and changed the power steering pump. New Autozone pump. More noise and issues with steering and the hydraboost brake. So not sure if the autozone pump is crap or there is another issue up stream.

Gman
01-11-2020, 18:57
GM Employees Jailed for Racing C8 Corvettes on the Street (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/gm-employees-jailed-racing-c8-corvettes-street/)

We can attest to how much fun it is to drive the all-new 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette Stingray, a car that needs a racetrack to exploit its full potential. The latter is especially worth remembering the next time you're tempted to seriously drop the hammer on public streets, in any car—a lesson two General Motors employees learned the hard way this week when they were arrested for apparently "racing" two new C8 Corvettes in Bowling Green, Kentucky.

According to Kentucky State Police, a trooper stopped Alexander Thim and Mark Derkatz on the evening of Wednesday, January 8, on Lovers Lane in Bowling Green, for exceeding the posted 45-mph speed limit by more than 26 mph, reckless driving, and racing motor vehicles on a public road. Automobile has not yet been able to verify just how much higher than 71 mph the cars were traveling when police nailed them and hauled the drivers away. (Exceeding the speed limit by 26 mph is simply Kentucky's standard under its driver's license points system to trigger a hearing and a possible suspension; it does not mean the cars were clocked at precisely 71 mph, or 26 mph more than the posted 45-mph limit.)

UPDATE: According to Kentucky's WNKY, Thim, 27, was caught driving one Corvette at 120 mph, and Derkatz, 30, at 100 mph; a third Corvette on the scene was "not participating in the racing. "

MrPrena
01-12-2020, 01:22
https://i.imgur.com/xy1vtyc.jpg

Irving
01-16-2020, 18:22
Rock Auto doesn't ship here anymore. Has anyone found an alternative that they like?

00tec
01-16-2020, 19:43
Rock Auto doesn't ship here anymore. Has anyone found an alternative that they like?

You are welcome to ship rockauto stuff out here and I can meet you the day after it arrives in Reunion or something after work.

Irving
01-16-2020, 19:50
Thanks. I may take you up on that someday. Right now I'm pirating part numbers from RockAuto and then just ordering from Amazon. A lot faster shipping so far.

00tec
01-16-2020, 19:55
Thanks. I may take you up on that someday. Right now I'm pirating part numbers from RockAuto and then just ordering from Amazon. A lot faster shipping so far.

Sometimes, the couple of bucks extra with fast shipping from amazon is worth it. I had a clutch shipped here last week and the pressure plate was wrong, took another week to get the right one in.

Erni
01-16-2020, 20:30
Rock auto will ship to any city in CO that has taxes collected by state. The RA rep sent me a link to a doc thsmat showed what those were.

Erni
01-16-2020, 20:32
Bought another PS pump, can't live with the noise and it seems to have marginal pressure at idle. Need to buy the real deal ps fluid now. Guess how I will spend my Sunday...

Erni
01-16-2020, 20:40
My kid showed me the Yaris GR. WANT! Of course not available in USA cause we can't have nice things.

Gman
01-17-2020, 22:37
Toyota to move Tacoma truck production from US to Mexico (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/toyota-to-move-tacoma-truck-production-from-us-to-mexico/ar-BBZ4422)

Toyota Motor said Friday it will move production of its midsize Tacoma pickup from the United States to Mexico as it adjusts production around North America.

? Toyota


The largest Japanese automaker also said it will end production of the Toyota Sequoia in Indiana by 2022 as that facility focuses on mid-size SUVs and minivans.

Toyota will shift production of the Sequoia in 2022 to Texas and that plant will end production of the Tacoma by late 2021.

Toyota has been building Tacoma trucks at its Baja California plant in Mexico since 2004. Last month, Toyota's Guanajuato plant began assembly of the Tacoma.

Toyota said its production capacity for the Tacoma in Mexico will be about 266,000 per year. Last year, the automaker sold nearly 249,000 Tacoma pickup trucks in the United States, up 1.3%.

Toyota said the product moves were to "improve the operational speed, competitiveness and transformation at its North American vehicle assembly plants based on platforms and common architectures."

The new North American trade agreement approved by the U.S. Senate on Thursday ensures that automakers will still be able to build pickup trucks in Mexico without facing new punitive tariffs.

In February, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles NV said it was reversing plans to shift production of heavy-duty trucks from Mexico to Michigan in 2020, freeing a Michigan facility to produce Jeeps.

Toyota said Friday it completed a $1.3 billion modernization investment in its Indiana operations to add 550 jobs. Toyota said there would be no reduction to direct jobs at any of Toyota’s facilities across North America as a result of the vehicle moves.

Irving
01-18-2020, 00:04
So Tacomas used to be made in Mexico, but now they're going to be made in Mexico?

Gman
01-18-2020, 00:21
So Tacomas used to be made in Mexico, but now they're going to be made in Mexico?

They had been making some Tacomas at their Baja California plant in Mexico, and are now also building them at their Guanajuato Mexico plant. They'll stop making them in the US and the Mexican production will meet their overall demand.

ray1970
01-18-2020, 05:24
Toyota: putting the Taco in Tacoma.

Irving
01-18-2020, 07:59
Perfect.

Gman
01-18-2020, 10:14
That 'new car smell' might be reminiscent of Taco Bell.

Duman
01-18-2020, 11:23
Toyota: putting the Taco in Tacoma.

Ouch! [facepalm]