Help me tear apart this frightening video.

[Dingo]

There is also a burden of responsibility on the person taking the instruction, to utilize it as framework upon which to build his own "real world" practical experience. You can learn advanced skills from simply reading a book, without any form of instructor. Are you an expert then? No. Do you have the basic understanding necessary to increase your experience? Yes.

If somebody were teaching these classes and promising that the pupils would be experts on the other side, I'd take umbrage. But they're not - all they're teaching is the skillset.

[Dingo]

Expertise comes from a mix of personal experience and a continuous learning process. I don't take someone teaching the classes on basic concepts/skills, as some claim that they're the be all/end all of everything related to the subject. Just that they're proficient in the skillset and theory.

[NCPatrolAR]

Opps. I missed it. No, it was at you.

Well arent you just a cute little ball of sunshine.

Yes I know you were in more than 2 years but a basic leg 11B is nothing to get all excited about these days.

Who is claiming that there is something to be excited about over my time in the service? Training as a whole sucked while I was in and I didnt start to gain real levels of ability in topics other than patrolling through the woods until I hit the private/LE sector.

With your busy training schedule, how do you find the time to do all these high risk warrants

Well, serving warrants is a part of my career, so it would make sense that I have time to do them since I've been employed by the same agency for the past 11 years. So do the math..... employed for 11 years, assigned to a street crimes unit for 7 years, agency has 1800 officers, and we serve an area with a population around 970k...... all of that equals plenty of time during the work week to knock down warrant services in addition to our other tasks. And we even manage to squeeze training days in there.

When it comes to my training schedule; I take classes when the opportunity presents itself. Since most classes are held on the week end, I usually dont have to take vacation time unless its a week-long course. Also, factor in that I've trained with listed instructors since 2004. Its not like I hit a class by all of them last weekend; but you already knew that.

We know Kelly invited you over to bail him out of his hole.

You just continue to hit that fail button dont you?

I'm here because of the video involving Anthony and Colorado Shooting Sports. I first saw the video on Facebook and after Anthony blocked my comments from his page, I started looking for various places where the video was being talked about. I even started my own discussions about it on M4Carbine.net and several other places. If I was here to bail Kelly out wouldnt it make sense that all of my posts would be towards that task? Instead, my first post was answering someone's question about what was wrong with the video/what could be done differently. Unlike you, I was actually trying to be helpful in the discussion. When you decided to talk about Kelly's classes I decided to chime in since I have actually attended one and have a base of knowledge to form an educated opinion on the class (aka I'm not a "that was my first class and it was awesome" person).

Anyone that endorses someone not qualified to teach and run a live fire, is not someone or an organization I will support not to mention the loss of credibility.

And the endorsement of someone that sees fit to do nothing but insult others should be heeded why?

[275RLTW]

Oh you're comparing apples to oranges? If you had just said Intel guy then I'd probably ask if you used the same systems, TTPs, and operational areas as I, then it wouldn't matter. I would compare that to "Would you trust a USMC intelligence officer as much as your fellow Army? Different training and all?" Yes, yes I would. Or how about CIA? Yep! Terrible example, because I can get firearms training almost anywhere and depending on the instructor, you can get good training anywhere. Military specific training can only be offered by military- or government. However, things like CQB (which are not just done by military but also can be performed by LE, PMCs, etc.) can be trained outside the military and you need not be a combat vet to be a subject matter expert. I would consider one of the instructors who taught me how to shoot the M16 (not a combat vet, surprisingly enough) a subject matter expert- he had qualified expert every single time for 17 years straight, worked with the rifle in all manner of training scenarios, and yet not a single deployment between 1989 and 2006- not to mention could take the thing apart and put it back together perfectly with very little hassle, tell you everything you wanted to know from maximum effective range, to muzzle velocity with GI ball 5.56 ammo. I on the other hand do not tell people I'm an SME unless I actually am (and to be honest, I really don't consider myself an SME in ANYTHING).

Talk about comparing apples to oranges...that is the exact point. Basic fundamentals and team tactics require different levels of expertise. The more dynamic the training, the more expertise and experience necessary to have a safe training environment and successfully teach the material. No one is saying that combat experience is needed to teach rifle fundamentals. Years of experience, either overseas or CONUS in real unscripted situitations is necessary to be a safe and effective teacher of CQB. It's not that hard of a concept to understand. Nurses don't teach neurosurgery, Anthony (and Kelly) have no business teaching CQB.

[275RLTW]

I'm here because of the video involving Anthony and Colorado Shooting Sports. I first saw the video on Facebook and after Anthony blocked my comments from his page, I started looking for various places where the video was being talked about. I even started my own discussions about it on M4Carbine.net and several other places. If I was here to bail Kelly out wouldnt it make sense that all of my posts would be towards that task? Instead, my first post was answering someone's question about what was wrong with the video/what could be done differently. Unlike you, I was actually trying to be helpful in the discussion. When you decided to talk about Kelly's classes I decided to chime in since I have actually attended one and have a base of knowledge to form an educated opinion on the class (aka I'm not a "that was my first class and it was awesome" person).



And the endorsement of someone that sees fit to do nothing but insult others should be heeded why?

OK, you state that you're not here to defend Kelly. Then I was wrong. You did however defend him teaching material outside his scope (post #172) and as a LE officer should see the risk of negligence associated with that. Do you have non qualified officers teaching OC, radar, tactics, driving, etc...? As far as me insulting others...I call BS where I see it. I'm not tactful to those who are constantly full of shit. If you want someone to make you feel good...go to a shrink.

[NCPatrolAR]

You did however defend him teaching material outside his scope (post #172) and as a LE officer should see the risk of negligence associated with that.

As I said, there was nothing taught in the two days that was unsafe, outside the norm, etc from other single person, entry level courses I've seen. If there was anything negligent that was occurring I would have put a stop to it.

Do you have non qualified officers teaching OC, radar, tactics, driving, etc...?

Those of us that teach those topics do so after having completed instructor training courses for each topic in question. So in theory, a person could teach a cqb class if he had an instructor certificate for cqb that the agency recognized

As far as me insulting others...I call BS where I see it.

You must be confusing what you see in the mirror with what you see on the forum.

If you want someone to make you feel good...go to a shrink.

I'm not looking for someone to make me feel good; but I do expect some degree of professionalism from someone that runs their own training company. And if someone needs to see a shrink its most likely you with the way you behave

[lowspeed_highdrag]

This is a shitty thread with shitty members shitting on some stand up guys. No thanks for me.
NCPatrolAR, welcome aboard brother.

[Dingo]

This is a shitty thread with shitty members shitting on some stand up guys. No thanks for me.
NCPatrolAR, welcome aboard brother.

Agreed. Things got really nasty and abrasive for no good reason. I'm done with this thread. Sorry this was the welcome the new member got. We're not all like that.

[lowspeed_highdrag]

Agreed. Things got really nasty and abrasive for no good reason. I'm done with this thread. Sorry this was the welcome the new member got. We're not all like that.

For those of us that are M4C members, we can vouch that NCPatrolAR woul be a fine addition to the forum and a wealth of knowledge. Just saying...

[Sharpienads]

I'm surprised this thread is still going. It got way off the original topic, a topic that I thought we would all agree on.