Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act vote on Wednesday!

[Gman]

The thread and the bill is in regard to CCW. I've read the bill. It's not about carrying what's limited in your home state nor being limited by your home state when you're in another state. It doesn't mean that you won't be bothered by the locals. If you have a permit that includes photo ID, you can use that as your defense in the state you're in. That to me means that this is going to be a legal goat rope. Good luck defending yourself with a jury made up of people that allowed the draconian gun laws. It''s probably safer to travel in coservative counties.

The comment I had initially responded to said "carry whatever firearms and magazine that you are allowed to carry in your home state."

There needs to be something there allowing you to carry everywhere whatever firearms and magazines that you are allowed to carry in your home state.

I didn't read that as being limited to CCW. Apparently someone took my "outgunned" statement to mean an actual firefight, which wasn't my intent. I was using the literal definition of outgunned - "to surpass in firepower". I thought people understood the term. Please forgive me.

ETA: My primary CCW handguns are single stacks.

[RblDiver]

Your argument still doesn't make sense as written. The only reason to be concerned about being outgunned would be if someone is going to attack you, which becomes an illegal act. Meanwhile, criminals clearly aren't going to worry about limits regardless.

So you're "outgunned." It isn't a dick-measuring contest. You have a pistol and I have a rifle, unless we're shooting at each other it makes no difference.

Now if you were meaning that you didn't want to be outgunned in the sense that there shouldn't be these arbitrary limits by state and that shall not be abridged should mean just that, then I agree.

[Gman]

Now if you were meaning that you didn't want to be outgunned in the sense that there shouldn't be these arbitrary limits by state and that shall not be abridged should mean just that, then I agree.

This was my point. It's stupid to have these arbitrary differences where the 2A "shall not be infringed" has been stepped on and you would have citizens in one of these states playing by different rules than visitors to the state from somewhere else that doesn't have these limitations.

Based on what I understand from reading the bill, non-residents of a state aren't given some kind of exemption to state regs. If you are prosecuted in another state, you can use your CCW as a defense, but there's no guaranteed outcome. If you win your case under this defense, then you can be reimbursed for legal fees. I don't know about you, but states have a larger legal budget than I do, so trying to plead your case could be an ugly proposition. Who wants to volunteer to be the first test case?

I am not a lawyer, but have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express before. Does anyone have any information that your state's CCW laws provide some sort of exemption from the differing CCW laws in the state that your visiting based on this legislation?

[Gman]

It passed.

CNN: House passes bill loosening gun restrictions

(CNN)The House of Representatives approved legislation Wednesday loosening gun regulations and allowing those with permits to carry concealed weapons to legally travel with those firearms to other states, a top priority of the National Rifle Association.

The bill passed mostly along party lines, 231-198, with six Democrats supporting it. Fourteen Republicans opposed the legislation, the first major firearms-related bill Congress has voted on since the massacres in Las Vegas and Texas earlier this year.

Republicans argued that Americans' Second Amendment rights to bear arms should not end when they cross state lines.

"The Bill of Rights is not a philosophical exercise," Georgia GOP Rep. Doug Collins, who personally had a concealed carry permit for what described as self-defense reasons. "I don't think that right should be undermined simply because I travel to another state."

Democrats angrily denounced the legislation, known as "concealed carry reciprocity."

Rep. Alcee Hastings, a Florida Democrat, called the bill "a disgraceful handout to the powerful gun lobby and gun manufacturers," and said the party's initials "GOP" should stand for "guns over people."

The NRA had fiercely lobbied for its passing.

"This vote marks a watershed moment for Second Amendment rights," said NRA executive director for legislative action Chris Cox. "The Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act is the culmination of a 30-year movement recognizing the right of all law-abiding Americans to defend themselves, and their loved ones, including when they cross state lines."

North Carolina GOP Rep. Richard Hudson, the author of the bill, recounted a story on the House floor about a woman from Pennsylvania with no criminal record who held a concealed carry permit for her pistol, which was not recognized when she traveled to New Jersey, and was later jailed.

"Are you serious? We have to make sure that never happens again," Hudson said. He compared concealed carry permits to marriage licenses or divorce decrees, and drivers' licenses, which are recognized in other states.

Connecticut Democratic Rep. Elizabeth Esty, who represents Newtown, where nearly five years ago 20 elementary school children and six teachers were murdered in a mass shooting, called the bill "an outrage and an insult to the families" of those killed by gun violence.

Wednesday's vote marked the first time since Newtown that the House took up any significant gun legislation, something several Democrats raised, citing recent mass shootings in Las Vegas and Texas without any action on proposals related to those incidents.

Former Democratic Rep. Gabby Giffords, a survivor of a mass shooting that left her seriously wounded, dug up old tweets, Facebook posts and press releases from Republican lawmakers who voted for the concealed carry bill where they offered their "thoughts and prayers." Giffords retweeted these posts, adding that those good wishes won't get the job done when it comes to stopping gun violence.

"Thoughts & prayers alone will not prevent the next horrific tragedy. I'm disappointed that @DarrellIssa just voted to weaken our gun laws. This is not the kind of leadership our nation deserves," Giffords tweeted at Republican Rep. Darrell Issa in just one of nearly 40 responses she had sent out.

Thoughts & prayers alone will not prevent the next horrific tragedy. I'm disappointed that @DarrellIssa just voted to weaken our gun laws. This is not the kind of leadership our nation deserves. https://t.co/456DjH5b2S
— Gabrielle Giffords (@GabbyGiffords) December 6, 2017

Many Democrats were also incensed that the bill was merged with two other measures with bipartisan support. One would fill in holes in the National Criminal Instant Background Check system (NCIS) that were highlighted after a mass shooting at a Texas church last month, in which the gunman, a former Air Force member, was able to buy guns even though he had a criminal record that the military failed to report to the database.

The other would direct the Bureau of Justice Statistics to study all crimes involving firearms and report back to Congress in six months about how many involved weapons with "bump fire stocks," accessories that can allow semi-automatic weapons guns to fire at a rate similar automatic ones. The shooter responsible for killing 58 people and injuring nearly 500 more attending a Las Vegas concert in October used bump stocks to direct large amounts of ammunition on the crowd, and members from both parties have called for ban on them.

Hastings predicted the measure was "going nowhere" in the Senate, where Republicans control the chamber but would need backing from eight Democrats to avoid a filibuster.

Texas Sen. John Cornyn, the number two Senate GOP Leader, said on Monday that merging the gun bills complicated the path forward in the Senate and suggested splitting off the background check fix. He has a bipartisan bill on that issue with Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy.

"I support both of those bills but I recognize that if you combine them it makes it a lot harder to pass the consensus bill which is the fix NICS bill," Cornyn said. "And I think it's important enough that we ought to handle those sequentially, would be my advice."

This story has been updated and will continue to update with additional developments.
CNN's Ted Barrett and Caroline Kenny contributed to this story.

[Bailey Guns]

Getting a bill up for debate, much less passing, in the senate will be the hard part.

[Gman]

Big time.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Joe_K]

Heres the part that maybe Gman doesn't get, (although there is no guarantee this is how the new law if passed and signed would be enforced). Say you live in California where there is an approved handgun roster, mag capacity limits, and is a may issue State. If you as a hypothetical California citizen apply for and successfully receive a concealed carry permit from a State that offers non-resident permits such as Utah or Florida you can legally carry in the State of California whatever firearm, magazine capacity, or ammunition is legal in the state from which you obtained your permit. This would of course significantly undermine most of the unconstitutional firearm laws in ban States pertaining to handguns.

For states that have constitutional carry such as Arizona and Vermont a resident needing to prove to law enforcement that he was lawfully concealed carrying a firearm in a ban state such as Hawaii or Maryland would only need a valid photo identification card issued from the constitutional carry State in which he or she resided.

There could and probably will be conflicts with laws such as the Colorado + 15 round capacity magazines that are not grandfathered under that law as that law is written in such a way that even having an out-of-State permit from say Utah where they do not have magazine restrictions might not necessarily be covered by the proposed National Reciprocity Law.

Obviously overzealous anti-gun legislators and state attorneys would probably counter-sue on some nitpicky grounds in an attempt to maintain their control over their citizens and safe face under the Trump administration.

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

[Gman]

For states that have constitutional carry such as Arizona and Vermont a resident needing to prove to law enforcement that he was lawfully concealed carrying a firearm in a ban state such as Hawaii or Maryland would only need a valid photo identification card issued from the constitutional carry State in which he or she resided.

I'm not holding my breath that anything useful is going to come out of this Senate.

It seemed that the House bill was stating that the photo ID had to be related to CCW from the resident state, not some other unrelated photo ID, like a driver's license. It didn't seem to me that there was inclusion of residents that came from constitutional carry states. Did I misread something in there?

If this somehow does become law, how it's enforced will be "interesting".

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[CS1983]

We should all take a road trip to Cali. Maybe sprint on the beach in slow motion, with artistic still shots of a glock in a holster poking out from beneath a beach towel.

[Zundfolge]

Getting a bill up for debate, much less passing, in the senate will be the hard part.

What's interesting is that if McConnell stonewalls this one too THIS will be his final undoing.

Nothing fires up the GOP base like gun rights ... if they fail to bring this to the floor in the Senate it'll be a RINO bloodbath in the upcoming primaries and McConnell will not survive as majority leader.