Tesla is having some big network issues

[izzy]

Wait, are you saying I have bias or I don't?

[Gman]

Teslas come with a fob or keycard that will do everything other cars do as far as lock/unlock/start/stop w/o needing a network. I said that but people seem to be missing that fact. If you left your key & fob at home would you blame Ford for not being able to get into your car? Then why are so many hating on Tesla for giving functionality exactly like your used to as a backup & then also giving you MORE functionality as a bonus?

Are you intentionally being obtuse?

I can't leave my keys at home because I couldn't leave home without them. I'm dependent on the proximity key, but as long as I have it, there's a mechanical option built-in. Battery dies, and I'm still driving home when I want to.

Some of the Tesla owners have become reliant on using the app to open and start their vehicles. They left the key fob at home, because they became dependent on another option that they expected to always be available...and then it wasn't. Can you even accept that reality?

Can you imagine what might happen to a vehicle like the Tesla if the company becomes defunct? If GM or Ford went under today, there would be scrapyards with used parts and aftermarket parts available. For Tesla, no app support, no navigation system telling you which way to go to make sure you don't stray too far from a charger, possibly no Superchargers. Crazier things have happened in our history.

[Gman]

Wait, are you saying I have bias or I don't?

Everyone has bias. If someone tells you they're "unbiased", they're lying.

[MrPrena]

Everyone has bias. If someone tells you they're "unbiased", they're lying.

Yes, I myself is favor of some manufacturer over others. Like, I have bias and lean towards BMW Ms, than Stupid Daimler MB AMG pos. In fact, I gotta go to MB Westminster dealership tomorrow morning and pickup a loaner car again. Preference also changes relative to time. I disliked Toyota and Hyundai during the 90s. Now, I prefer those over Honda.

ONLY way i would buy a tesla is , if I made 2x of cost of tesla in a week off of buying/selling cheapo options on TSLA.


Oh yeah, So far, I had no damn issue(s) with Hyundai Elantra.

[68Charger]

Who says I can't buy one? Now you pretend to know my financial situation too?

You're sure taking this real personally... the confirmation bias statement was meant as a general statement about people who Tesla worship.

I don't care about your financial situation, I don't care if you go buy a Tesla... you asked why I keep arguing- because you keep selling them, or at least the IDEA.
It's like crossfit for the automobile world. oh, and you keep referring to hate... I don't hate Tesla, I don't hate Elon Musk, I don't hate EVs... just because I don't buy into the idea, doesn't mean I hate.

BTW, I'm not buying the Ed Brown analogy, either... let me know when you'll carry one daily as a duty weapon AND you have to add a biometric lock to it, so it will only fire when the owner is holding it.

[izzy]

Everyone has bias. If someone tells you they're "unbiased", they're lying.

We're getting a little philosophical for a conversation about cars.

[Justin]

I'll expand on your comment because it's the big issue I have with EVs.

Tech will die faster than a lot of traditional components. "infotament" systems are a huge point of failure in every vehicle that uses them (search randomly for customer vehicle complaints for any vehicle that uses one), and if your screen doesn't work in a Tesla once Tesla itself stops providing them, you have a good chance of being toast [junkyards would likely even lose access to them as the #1 point of failure and a relatively short life compared to the car itself] If an independent manufacturer came in, maybe you could replace the screen. Once screens go out of vogue, and they will - you will even be screwed there most likely. [Say, try to buy a VCR right now]. App support is also preciously limited to a tiny slice of time. Imagine if computers were invented and installed in model T fords, and they included telegraph hookups to start the computer using high voltage signals in morse code. Yup, your cell phone isn't going to have an app for that anymore.

Computer components are ridiculously reliable - transistors, resisters, ICs, etc on an individual scale. But when you install thousands of reliable components to make a piece of hardware that requires they all function; and then make the car utilize itself voluminous amounts of those components, you turn individually reliable parts into a mass liability. Tesla is strange though, it's like a religion, because you can't have an objective conversation with a fan of the cult leader. Before they want to pile on me and say BULLSHIT, ELON WILL NEVER DIE; lets grasp your dissonance. Take a look at your cell phone people. Most people keep their phone more than a couple-three years; often replacing in that time-frame out of necessity. Want to place a bet on the odds the majority of your model of phone will completely and irrevocably brick up within a decade? That's why its not so great to make a much bigger cell phone with wheels. EV's are great, but a car maker needs to skip all the bullshit features and shoot for longevity, making an EV with minimal points of failure to satisfy the category of people like myself who aren't hedonistic.. Anymore it is almost unamerican to look forward (or even backward for that matter), which is probably why the product doesn't exist.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of examples to contradict your claims that the cars would be bricked if the screen goes dead. Let's assume you're right and Tesla is out of business by 2019, and screens start dying shortly thereafter.

It'll only be about six months before groups of talented enthusiasts will have found a workaround to replace the broken equipment. Why do I say this? Because there's a huge precedent for this already. There are all sorts of subcultures dedicated to keeping old technology functional. There are people who still fabricate new hardware and software for AMIGA PCs. There are groups of people who are still creating games for the original Nintendo Entertainment System. There are still people who write new software for the Apple Newton. There are people who refurbish and keep functional old Atari systems. Not that long ago, a group of hackers got together and were able to pull lost moon photos off of NASA data tapes that haven't had functional readers in nearly half a century. Hell, more military networks than you would care to know about depend on technology that is between 20-40 years old.

So, even working under your assumption that Tesla is going to be dead in some super short time frame, so long as there are people who like the technology, there will be enthusiasts and cottage industries that will spring up around keeping it functional.

Some of the Tesla owners have become reliant on using the app to open and start their vehicles. They left the key fob at home, because they became dependent on another option that they expected to always be available...and then it wasn't. Can you even accept that reality?

Please explain how someone failing to stick the Tesla fob in their wallet (it's intentionally designed to do so) is somehow a design fault on the part of Tesla.

[Justin]

We're getting a little philosophical for a conversation about cars.

Speaking as someone who spent more time than I care to admit working in the "news" industry, he's absolutely right.

[68Charger]

I'll just leave this here, I think it's pertinent- just where EVs with fancy tech doo-dads are on the graph is debatable.

[Justin]

Musk claims to be "expanding production to profitability". Where are his new assembly lines? China. You don't run a third of your production out of temporary structures as a plan. That's desperation. When the shine wears off of Tesla, there will be many unhappy people.....or maybe I'm wrong. Let's see what happens.

They haven't even broken ground on the Chinese plants yet. Teardowns of the Model 3 have shown the vehicles to have a profit margin of 20+%. The biggest issue is that Tesla has burned through a lot of money getting to sustainably high (5-6k/wk) production numbers on the Model 3, and as a result, have to dig themselves out of a significant financial hole.