The Ban Stands

[Rucker61]

Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve....

You mean that couple who brought evil into the world, raised a murderer, and let the rest of their kids have incestuous relationships? Those role models?

[DD977GM2]

Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve....

Shut up troll

[DD977GM2]

You mean that couple who brought evil into the world, raised a murderer, and let the rest of their kids have incestuous relationships? Those role models?

There was no such thing as Adam and Eve. DUHHHHHHH

[DD977GM2]

Fancy colored "neckerchiefs" are clearly a gay fashion accessory . . . if they were serious about no gays in Scouting they'd get rid of the colored neckerchiefs.

Or get rid of scouts all together.

[Aloha_Shooter]

Not that you'll see this, but what is their agenda" that justifies exclusions as leaders in the scouts?

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?

Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

The Portland council recently had to pay $15M over one of these cases. My guess is they tried to strike a balance by keeping notes on registered Scouters who were "suspect" but tried to keep the notes private so as not to hurt anyone with unproven allegations -- but the sheer fact they kept notes and didn't warn people (including the eventual victim) was used against them.

Good for BSA National for once -- as a long time Scouter, I was afraid this big review would be used to by guys like Stephenson to push a change in policy to meet the demands of the politically correct.

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA -- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.

[Rucker61]

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?

In context, the reference was to the gay agenda in Ronin's comments

Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

So what you're saying is the BSA doesn't want leaders who are pedophiles that prey on boys, so we should keep out all gay men as leaders, regardless? Just to be safe? What about those men who like grown women and young boys? Are they heterosexual or pedophilic homosexual? Sandusky was a long time practicing heterosexual; how good of a scout leader would he have made.

How does banning openly gay leaders protect children? I'd think an openly gay leader would be under enough scrutiny to prevent any incidents. A rule, and the BSA as a private organization is legally in the right, might keep openly gay men who are comfortable in their adult sexuality out of the Scouts but it won't keep secret pedophiles out.

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA

Separate but equal, eh; where have I heard that before?

-- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.

Scouting is good for kids. I'm all for it. I'm curious about your last sentence: are you claiming that atheism and homosexuality are not legitimate lifestyles?

[clublights]

Why do they need an agenda? Or for that matter, why should they have to justify it to you?

Having said that, BSA has been placed in a no-win situation for years because pro-gay forces want to force them to accept homosexual leaders but they've had to pay millions out because of predatory attacks by homosexual pedophiles. Note the use here is talking about pedophiles who are homosexuals, NOT (as often claimed by the left) equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

The Portland council recently had to pay $15M over one of these cases. My guess is they tried to strike a balance by keeping notes on registered Scouters who were "suspect" but tried to keep the notes private so as not to hurt anyone with unproven allegations -- but the sheer fact they kept notes and didn't warn people (including the eventual victim) was used against them.

Good for BSA National for once -- as a long time Scouter, I was afraid this big review would be used to by guys like Stephenson to push a change in policy to meet the demands of the politically correct.

I don't see why the homosexual and atheist activitists don't just create a Gay and Atheist Youth organization of their own instead of continually harassing the BSA -- except that I believe those activists are more interested in legitimizing and promoting their own lifestyles and beliefs than in actually helping kids.

DING DING DING

+1

And a few comments on the BSA haters....admittedly bias as I am an Eagle.

Some of us were not lucky enough to have fathers that were into the outdoors thing. My pop was just not into it .. no fishing , no hunting no camping I went camping with my dad ONCE to the grand canyon and I'm pretty sure my uncle (his brother) forced him into it. My grandfather was a bit too old to be going backpacking in the back country or canoeing for 2 weeks down the green river. So I had scouting to turn to cuz I AM into those things ( well never been a hunter but all the other outdoorsy things ) Scouting taught me a lot of skills and life lessons I still use to this day
I went all the way from Cubs to Webelos to Eagle to Assistant Scoutmaster after I was 18 and still helped out my troop. I take pride in the fact that every time I go home to my parents I still see the church( which was also our meeting house) who's fence I rebuilt as my Eagle Project and take pride that 20 years later parts of it still stand ( the church has expanded a few times since then and has taken down sections of the fence for more building)

I had a really good Scouting "career" I did things others never get to.

I was charter member, and youngest member of the "official" Honor Guard for the Boulder Dam Area Council ( Las Vegas NV) I was technically below their cut off age but I impressed the adult council members so much that they brought me on anyways.( I was 11). We did all the parades, TV appearances, any where an Honor Guard was needed or desired for the Council. I still have the plaque that was given to each of us after that first year ( I was on it for 2.5 years till the Air Force moved us)

I went to Philmont Boy Scout Ranch
I was a patrol leader
I spent 2 weeks canoeing the Green River to the Colorado.
I made rank as fast as possible till Life and Eagle ( those took me longer.. HS football and girls became a huge distraction LOL)


Where else would I have gotten those kinds of experiences ?

[Ronin13]

Okay, let me clear the air here- I was never once referring to a gay scout leader being more prone to sexually assaulting scouts... Not once did I even think that, that's not my concern because those cases are extremely rare. I was more along the lines referring to the fact that while I was in the scouts in my youth, the very thought of a gay leader would have been impossible. I'm sure several parents (as a lot were very hardcore right leaners that wouldn't have tolerated such) would be very upset to hear a gay person in a position of authority teaching lessons to their children. It comes down to what kind of stranger you want teaching life lessons and skills to your children? If you're gay then it's all good right? But if you're not gay do you really trust a gay person to NOT spout their pro-gay rhetoric to impressionable kids? I don't want my kids raised by Elton John and Ellen DeGeneris, I want to raise them on my terms with my morals and lessons, not some "See? We do it all the time, it's okay to shove your agenda and beliefs on people regardless of if they want it or not." THAT is what it all boils down to, it's not tolerance or acceptance, it's about: "Stop shoving that shit down my throat, whether it's pro-gay, pro-Muslim, or freaking pro-My Little Pony, if I want to know more about it or support it, I'll come to you, don't come seek me out!" /rant

[TEAMRICO]

Rucker, we get it. You are so much more tolerant than the rest of us.
If you have no business with Scouting then go about your life. Those of us involved are trying to something good for the kids. Not push a belief system and a hidden agenda. I for one try to bring them up to work together, learn new skills and build self confidence. The parents can make the decision if they know a leader is gay or whatever and not have their child participate. It is their choice. Why should a child have to be exposed to this? Please give me a reason why it makes you lose sleep over this. Start your own Troop and see how many families with one mom(female) and one dad(male) flock to join up.

You put people in a situation that they disagree with and then WE are all of a sudden the intolerant evil ones.
I don't go around making the world conform to me. I'm not pounding on the door of any woman's organization forcing them to admit me I just go about my life and if it does not concern me then so be it.
Make up all the hypotheticals you want. The Scouts made their decision so accept the fact. It does not concern you so move on to the next cause.

[Rucker61]

Rucker, we get it. You are so much more tolerant than the rest of us.
If you have no business with Scouting then go about your life. Those of us involved are trying to something good for the kids. Not push a belief system and a hidden agenda. I for one try to bring them up to work together, learn new skills and build self confidence. The parents can make the decision if they know a leader is gay or whatever and not have their child participate. It is their choice. Why should a child have to be exposed to this? Please give me a reason why it makes you lose sleep over this. Start your own Troop and see how many families with one mom(female) and one dad(male) flock to join up.

You put people in a situation that they disagree with and then WE are all of a sudden the intolerant evil ones.
I don't go around making the world conform to me. I'm not pounding on the door of any woman's organization forcing them to admit me I just go about my life and if it does not concern me then so be it.
Make up all the hypotheticals you want. The Scouts made their decision so accept the fact. It does not concern you so move on to the next cause.

I appreciate your candor and frankness. I appreciate you volunteering to be a scout leader and passing on your knowledge to the next generation. I'm not lobbying the BSA to change their rules; those are their rules, and anyone who wants to be in Scouts has to agree to abide by them. I'd love to have my two sons involved in Scouts like some of their friends. I just don't want one of the lessons they take away from the experience to be "gays aren't good enough to be in Scouts" or "if you're gay, hide it from the world to be accepted".